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Subjectivist wrote:Pardon me for asking, but what in the D party is anti authoritarian? They get us into as many wars as the R's, they pass thousands of laws and regulations restricting personal freedom just like the R's. I would call the D party many things, but never anti authoritarian!

The root word of "authoritarian" is authority, do you think really dirty hippies cum slacker millennials and antifa anarchists would be attracted to the party of authority?
LOL

As in all things political, one's view of what is authoritarianism, depends on what one finds important. If you are pissed about, say, rules against smoking in restaurants, having your dog vaccinated for rabies, or maybe putting on your seatbelt then yeah, Ds are authoritarian. Nanny state and all that.

If on the other hand you view authoritarianism as the opposition to basic civil liberties like universal suffrage, equal rights, rule of law (as opposed to just "tough on crime") and delegitimizing democratic institutions, then you likely see Ds as, well, democratic rather than autocratic. See: "[the press is] the enemy of the people", "don't be so gentle when you put them in the car", "If you're innocent, why are you taking the Fifth Amendment", "We're running against a rigged system", oh and: "They're sending rapists" and on and on.

Not trying to diminish Ds penchant for big government. They are definitely for big rules that infringe on the income of the ownership, holding them responsible for the costs they try to offload on society : consumer protection, environmental regs, CAFE standards, etc.

Point being, I believe we have innate values that range along a spectrum, what I value is not what someone else may value even though we call it by the same name. But if I have to point that out to you, I'll never convince you will I?
Regardless here is the picture

Drawing on the work of many anthropologists (particularly Richard Shweder at the University of Chicago) and many evolutionary biologists and psychologists, my colleagues and I came to the conclusion that there are six best candidates for being the taste buds of the moral mind: Care/Harm, Fairness/Cheating, Liberty/Oppression, Loyalty/Betrayal, Authority/Subversion, and Sanctity/Degradation.
https://democracyjournal.org/magazine/2 ... -fairness/
ttp://www.ethicsdefined.org/the-problem ... -liberals/

Which party supports gun control, including making law abiding citizens felons, based on the type of guns they have or the capacity of the magazines which they bought legally. Ask the gun-owners in New Jersey whose government just made them all potential felons by owning magazines over ten rounds capacity. I'm pretty sure they would tell you which party is authoritarian.

Pops wrote:... do you think ... antifa .... would be attracted to the party of authority?

?????

As far as I'm concerned, Antifa are not only are attracted to authority ----they are intrinsically authoritarian. The whole purpose of Antifa is to limit what other people can say through violence and intimidation.

Any group that uses physical force to take away other people's freedom of speech and freedom of assembly is authoritarian in my book.

Thats not to say that the groups that antifa doesn't like are any more admirable or correct in what they say then antifa is....but in the US we have a tradition of freedom of speech and we have the US Constitution with the bill of rights that guarantees freedom of speech for all---and opposed to that we have authoritarian groups like antifa want to subvert and limit freedom of speech and dictate what can and cannot be said.

Cheers!

Plantagenet wrote:As far as I'm concerned, Antifa are not only are attracted to authority ----they are intrinsically authoritarian. The whole purpose of Antifa is to limit what other people can say through violence and intimidation.

Their purpose is to oppose fascists and proto-nazis, it's right there in the name. Once upon a time the purpose of a whole generation of Americans was to oppose fascism, nazism, authoritarianism. I'm floored by how that's changed.

Antifa is a terrorist organization who suppresses free speech from anyone who goes outside Marxist theology. Anyway, free speech is for everyone. Not just the speech that pleases my ears. There would be no need for the first amendment if everything I don't like can be considered hate speech.

There are people right here on this board who consider anyone who voted for Trump as either a fascist or Nazi. All 60 million of us. People like Pops believe this.

Here is your "peaceful" Antifa rioting and burning on the Berkley campus. Own them Pops. They are your group.

Pops wrote:Their purpose is to oppose fascists and proo-nazis, it's right there in the name.

In politics its always wise to look at politicians actually do rather then what they say.

Its the same with creepy extremist groups.

For instance...do you think the leftist Symbionese Liberation Army was all about liberating people, just because it was in their name? Same deal with antifa---they want to shut down free speech. As someone who believes in free speech, and spent some time in Berkeley, home of the free speech movement, I think antifa is very dangerous. Look what they do---they stop free speech. Thats a cardinal crime, IMHO. Our freedoms start with freedom of speech. Thats why its the first right in the Bill of Rights.


But but but they have "liberation" right in their name!!!!

You've successfully changed the topic again, bravo

Pops wrote:You've successfully changed the topic again, bravo

And you have successfully slithered away when the topic goes against you.

Anyone incapable of critical thinking can post pictures of crazy assholes and blame the "other side".

[turns off critical thinking mode]




[turns critical thinking mode back on]

I'm just wondering what they hope to accomplish. What's the implied end-game?

Speech you hate is exactly the type of. speech the first Amendment protects.

Antifa has the position that if we don't like your speech we will hit you in the head with a bike lock and burn down your house. But yet there as are defenders of such violence as justified right here on this board.

Cog wrote:Speech you hate is exactly the type of. speech the first Amendment protects.

Antifa has the position that if we don't like your speech we will hit you in the head with a bike lock and burn down your house. But yet there as are defenders of such violence as justified right here on this board.

If you think the left has a monopoly on such behavior, you're a bigot. If you think you'll convince the rest of us that the left has a monopoly on such behavior, you're an idiot.

So what do you propose we do, Coggoid?

Monopoly no. But look around at college campuses, technology companies, and blue state cities. Almost invariably it is the left who is attempting to suppress speech which they disagree with.

Antifa mob attacked two Hispanic US marines and beat them while yelling racial epithets at them

Hispanic-marines-assaulted-philadelphia-antifa

Racist mob violence is racist mob violence, no matter whether its antifa or some other group. An antifa mob jumped two innocent Hispanics and beat them in Philly. Two of the mob were identified, in spite of the fact some the cowards wore masks when they were beating the two Hispanic marines, and they are on trial now. I hope the racist antifa thugs who did this get the maximum prison sentence available.

Cheers!

vtsnowedin wrote:I posted this elsewhere but it belongs here as well.

Here is a couple of thoughts for you.
Watching VP Pence in the oval office this week I got the impression he is just bidding his time.
Also it is not looking good for Trump at this point so lets suppose he is driven out by say next April. Pence becomes president and could serve the balance of Trumps term and be eligible for two more full terms as Trump will be past the halfway point of his term.
When the VP slot becomes vacant Pence can appoint a successor but they have to be confirmed by a majority of both houses (amendment 25 section 2.) and I can't think of anyone both sides would agree on with the next congresses makeup so the office might sit vacant for a while.
The Dems on a roll will turn their attention to Pence and will try to drive him out of office, most probably by tying him to some crime of Trump's.
If they drive him out with the VP slot vacant the next in line is the speaker of the house which will be Pelosi.
I'm sure she dreams of this and is working towards it with every action.

You heard it here first.

It is unlikely, but now at least possible, that Nancy Pelosi will be the next president of the United States. It will not happen by election in 2020, but by succession to the White House this year. Some of you might recall that after the near assassination of Ronald Reagan, chaos ensued in the White House. Secretary of State Alexander Haig told reporters, “Constitutionally, gentlemen, you have the president, the vice president and the secretary of state, in that order.” He added, “As for now, I am in control here, in the White House, pending the return of the vice president.” He was wrong.

https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house ... ted-states

vtsnowedin wrote:

It is unlikely, but now at least possible, that Nancy Pelosi will be the next president of the United States. It will not happen by election in 2020, but by succession to the White House this year.

Ok, I'll make a prediction too. It is unlikely, but at least possible that aardvarks will rule the earth. It will not happen by election in 2020, but by appointment via the Grand Horned One, leader of the purple unicorns which, IMO, rule the universe.

Predictions are fun. Anyone can play the game.

GHung wrote:

Cog wrote:Speech you hate is exactly the type of. speech the first Amendment protects.

Antifa has the position that if we don't like your speech we will hit you in the head with a bike lock and burn down your house. But yet there as are defenders of such violence as justified right here on this board.

If you think the left has a monopoly on such behavior, you're a bigot. If you think you'll convince the rest of us that the left has a monopoly on such behavior, you're an idiot.

So what do you propose we do, Coggoid?

How about both sides yell really loudly at the other and claim it's all the other's fault. Surely that will lead to rapid progress. Because that's worked so well so far.

Doesn’t seem like the government shutdown ploy is working so well for Trump.

It's working fine for me. It's revealing that Democrats care more for illegals than they do border security and American citizens.

The fact this country runs fine with 800k less federal workers is frosting on the cske.

"The fact this country runs fine with 800k less federal workers is frosting on the cske."

Alternate fact with alternate spelling.

What's even better is that after 30 days of shutdown Trump can do a RIF of non-essential personnel. Another win. I do not know if Trump will do that but I sure would.