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Countdown To Impeachment Pt. 2

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Re: Countdown To Impeachment

Unread postby jedrider » Thu 17 Oct 2019, 13:59:45

The new 'normal', or not. That's the only thing left to decide.
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Re: Countdown To Impeachment

Unread postby Plantagenet » Thu 17 Oct 2019, 17:32:30

Another whistleblower has emerged......this time at CNN. This whistleblower has notes, recordings and secretly raped videos that prove that CNN isn’t a news organization anymore. Its a propaganda outlet for the Ds. Every news report is slanted to bash trump. Every editorial decision is designed to help the Ds.

Of course thats been clear for a long time but its still a little shocking to hear the CNN execs openly talking about it 8) :lol: :-D :roll: :twisted:
"Our house is on fire" Greta Thunberg, 12/28/19

"The people in power should listen.....its them I'm criticizing" Greta Thunberg, 12/4/19
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Re: Countdown To Impeachment

Unread postby jedrider » Thu 17 Oct 2019, 19:35:00

I moved to Fox News now:

Controversial Dhvani billboard in Times Square shows Trump hogtied
https://www.foxnews.com/media/controversial-dhvani-billboard-in-times-square-shows-trump-hogtied

The women are ganging up on him now and the tables have turned.
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Re: Countdown To Impeachment

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Fri 25 Oct 2019, 09:24:43

The latest counter move by the White house.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... ar-AAJjIHv
Katie Benner and Adam Goldman
12 hrs ago
Conway defends comments in phone interview
Dems see no need to hear from Ukraine whistleblower

WASHINGTON — For more than two years, President Trump has repeatedly attacked the Russia investigation, portraying it as a hoax and illegal even months after the special counsel closed it. Now, Mr. Trump’s own Justice Department has opened a criminal investigation into how it all began.

It was not clear what potential crime Mr. Durham is investigating, nor when the criminal investigation was prompted. A Justice Department spokeswoman declined to comment.
.........
........
Mr. Trump is certain to see the criminal investigation as a vindication of the years he and his allies have spent trying to discredit the Russia investigation. In May, Mr. Trump told the Fox News host Sean Hannity that the F.B.I. officials who opened the case — a counterintelligence investigation into whether his campaign conspired with Moscow’s election sabotage — had committed treason.

“We can never allow these treasonous acts to happen to another president,” Mr. Trump said. He has called the F.B.I. investigation one of the biggest political scandals in United States history.
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Re: Countdown To Impeachment

Unread postby Cog » Fri 25 Oct 2019, 09:34:37

What is crystal clear is that Obama's intelligence and law enforcement agencies conducted a counter-intelligence operation that was politically motivated. How soon we forget the assistant director of FBI counter-intelligence comments that said he had a "insurance policy" in the unlikely event that Trump was elected. How soon we forget that Comey leaked internal FBI documents about Trump through a college professor. How soon we forget that Assistant FBI director McCabe was fired for violating FBI policy regarding the intelligence operation into the Trump campaign. But I remember it and we discussed all of this in the Special Counsel thread.

I want to believe the path you threw out for consideration in Andy’s office [Andrew McCabe is the FBI deputy director and married to a Democratic Virginia State Senate candidate] for that there’s no way he gets elected—but I’m afraid we can’t take that risk. It’s like an insurance policy in the unlikely event you die before you’re 40 …-- Peter Strzok August 2016
Last edited by Cog on Fri 25 Oct 2019, 09:47:00, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Countdown To Impeachment

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Fri 25 Oct 2019, 09:45:22

It was funny watching Maddow try to whistle past this graveyard last night.
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Re: Countdown To Impeachment

Unread postby Cog » Fri 25 Oct 2019, 09:55:21

I was promised for two years by such media luminaries like Maddow, Blitzer, Matthews, Lemon etc. that the evidence was clear that Trump was a Russian agent. I was promised by Democrats like Schiff, Nadler, and Pelosi that Trump was a Russian puppet. I was promised by ex CIA and National intelligence heads like Clapper and Brennan that Trump was a Russian agent and any day now it would all be released. After all of this two year kerfuffle, Mueller concluded that NO American colluded with or conspired with Russia to change the outcome of the 2016 election.

Have any of these people done a mea culpa and admitted they were wrong? Of course not. They have in fact doubled down on RUSSIA, RUSSIA, RUSSIA. The latest Ukraine leak is just more RUSSIA, RUSSIA, RUSSIA.
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Re: Countdown To Impeachment

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Fri 25 Oct 2019, 11:37:14

They don't seem to realize they are acting as Putin's useful idiots with their constant attacks. Or that Russia could meddle with the election through face book false accounts etc, without any action or collusion from the Trump campaign. The one Maddow seems to hang onto is that the Trump campaign knew about the hacks of the DNC server before it became public. That a FBI double agent sent out as the "insurance policy" planted that information never crosses her mind. If Hillary had won the Russians would have started releasing her Emails to weaken her presidency.
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Re: Countdown To Impeachment

Unread postby jedrider » Fri 25 Oct 2019, 12:51:03

I'm afraid (not really) that an example will have to be made of this political corruption.
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Re: Countdown To Impeachment

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Fri 25 Oct 2019, 15:49:15

It appears that there is plenty of corruption on both sides. Enough to get dozens of people in jail if investigated to the bottom of it.
As to removal from office I still think it comes down to having 34 GOP Senators vote to acquit in spite of anything that has been entered into evidence. That may come down to the difference between "investigate" and "Fabricate". As long as Trump and his teem were looking for the facts about what actually happened and not asking or demanding that damming evidence be fabricated out of thin air to skewer the Obama administration I think he can get by. And of course if the facts lie in another country that is where you will have to go to get them so the "horrors" of Trump seeking assistance from a foreign country fades if all he asked for were the facts.
The public deserves to know all the facts before election day so they can vote from a well informed position.
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Re: Countdown To Impeachment

Unread postby Ibon » Fri 25 Oct 2019, 16:31:24

The political calculation regarding this impeachment has been discussed. Especially after the anti climatic result of the Mueller report the risk for the democrats is to be once again accused of making a mountain out of a mole hill.

Cog acts as a good barometer on this site and maybe for the collective at large. When he is sure that trump will survive impeachment he posts that the democrats are commiting collective suicide going down the rabbit hole singularly focused on impeachment.

When he gets nervous he starts posting about deep state and procedures. He wont or cant or is simply too loyal or too proud to post about the mounting evidence of corruption from Trump and his goons.

Being able to judge and assess the evidence against Trump outside the tribal polarity should make Trump loyalists nervous as an increasing number of carreer republicans and diplomats not afraid of constituents are doing.

On the other hand Cog can put his trust on the spineless fear of many republicans to tow the line. This is a time when courage and integrity is in short supply.

I can't predict the outcome at this moment.
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Re: Countdown To Impeachment

Unread postby Newfie » Fri 25 Oct 2019, 21:04:46

Part of the problem is that of not having consistent standards. Most presidents since Eisenhower have violated norms as much as Trump, some much more. Carter and acrid May be the exceptions.

IMHO the D’s don't want to come up with some universal standards for Presidential behavior any more than the R’s. So it’s really just a personality thing, they don’t like the guy.

I don’t like him either, but I didn’t like Hillary and don’t like Joe, Bernie, or Bettie. Should we impeach them when they are elected?

This is all a bunch of HS sophomoric baloney. It would seem there are no adults left, with the possible exception of Rand Paul and I don’t know much about him.
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Re: Countdown To Impeachment

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Fri 25 Oct 2019, 21:55:06

Newfie wrote:
This is all a bunch of HS sophomoric baloney. It would seem there are no adults left, with the possible exception of Rand Paul and I don’t know much about him.

That is why I am going to write in James Mattis in the Vermont primary and the presidential election. Not that I think he has a chance of winning just that I have enough brains to realize that none of the other candidates are worthy or capable of the job.
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Re: Countdown To Impeachment

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sat 26 Oct 2019, 10:53:10

Gen. Flynn's new legal team just filed in court a paper claiming the FBI leadership conspired to entrap him into a phony perjury charge back in 2016-17 as part of the original phony scheme to impeach Trump. And they have evidence.....the 302 forms which record the FBI agents interview with Flynn appear to have been altered, and Lisa Page and Peter Strzok---the love-crossed Trump haters in the FBI and DOJ---sent text messages to each other discussing altering the 302 forms.

fbi-entrapped-flynn-manipulated-evidence-clapper-allegedly-issued-kill-shot-order

Possibly this is related to the criminal investigation that IG Durham is conducting in the DOJ, or possibly this is some other entirely separate stinky illegal thing the Hillary supporters in the DOJ were up to try to smear Trump. Altering a 302 form is tantamount to committing perjury, since it is an internal legal form within the FBI. Since both Lisa Page and Strzok are involved in this, they both would seem to be facing some additional legal jeopardy here. This little scheme also seems to involve higher ups in the FBI, DOJ and intelligence apparatus.

Cheers!
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Countdown To Impeachment Pt. 2

Unread postby Cog » Sun 27 Oct 2019, 04:09:17

The FBI does not audio tape or video interviews. 302's are written. Easier to alter that way. Never talk to a federal agent without a lawyer present. In fact, never talk to one at all. You have nothing to gain from it but much to lose. Just ask Flynn.
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Re: Countdown To Impeachment

Unread postby Cog » Sun 27 Oct 2019, 10:10:09

@Ibon

You complain that I talk about process when it comes to investigating Trump and his campaign. As if process doesn't matter anymore. There was a time in this country in which we beat the hell out of suspects to get a confession and that was okay with people.

The deal is Ibon, process does matter. Spying on a political campaign matters. FBI perjury entrapment matters. Foreign intelligence agencies enlisted by our own CIA to spy on the Trump campaign matters.

But the Supreme Court has ruled that everyone has a presumption of innocence and that their rights must be read to them in the form of a Miranda warning. Now that might be okay in Panama to beat the hell out of a suspect to get a confession. But that is not the law here. Donald Trump has the presumption of innocence. The House and the Senate must prove that he has committed a crime. Orange Man bad or is a racist, as the left believes, is not a high crime or misdemeanor.
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Re: Countdown To Impeachment

Unread postby jedrider » Sun 27 Oct 2019, 11:30:44

Cog wrote:The FBI does not audio tape or video interviews. 302's are written. Easier to alter that way. Never talk to a federal agent without a lawyer present. In fact, never talk to one at all. You have nothing to gain from it but much to lose. Just ask Flynn.


The same can be said about any law enforcement situation. The odds are stacked against you if that is their will.
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Re: Countdown To Impeachment

Unread postby jedrider » Sun 27 Oct 2019, 11:38:28

Hillary this and Hillary that, enough of Hillary already!

Except for this:

'You cannot make up my life': Hillary Clinton's ties to impeachment inquiries against three presidents
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/10/26/impeachment-hillary-clinton-memo-nixon-trump/4082889002/
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Re: Countdown To Impeachment

Unread postby Ibon » Sun 27 Oct 2019, 11:39:34

Cog wrote:Orange Man bad or is a racist, as the left believes, is not a high crime or misdemeanor.


If one steps out of their polarized box then you have to recognize this dynamic that is less about a divide left and right and more about Trump locked into this battle with established institutions whether it be the FBI. CIA, military advisors, Diplomats, the media, etc.

Some of this certainly started from a deep distrust that these institutions had with him in the beginning.
(democrats, rhino republicans, CIA, FBI, etc) Then you had politicians that commented that just give him a chance and he will learn some statesmanship and do alright. Seeing how things have devolved this is not all about Trump just being a victim of the deep state. Trump himself has chosen to agitate the distrust and amplify it. Therein lies the veracity of the impeachment process, that more than the nature or severity of the crime.

Newfie mentioned correctly that all past presidents have skirted around the law or out right broken the law, many as much if not more than Trump. If you want to impeach any president it is probably not that hard to find a crime.

Here is an interesting comparison. When Reagan financed the Contras in Niciragua with arms sales to Iran he never got impeached. He sent Oliver North over to Iran and Nicaragua and circumvented congress to negotiate this much the same way Trump sent Guliani over to Ukraine circumvented normal diplomatic channels. And yet Reagan survived when this incident in most peoples views was much more of an impeachable offense than what Trump has done with this quid pro quo. Could this difference be explained partially in the different strategies Reagan and Trump took in dealing with their opposition?

The animosity toward Trump among established institutions since he has been president has gotten worse. Far worse. Even within the republican party. Pay less attention to the process and more attention to this dynamic. Remember, ultimately impeachment is not something a court decides in terms of innocence or guilt of a crime. It is a decision taken by congress. And that decision does need a crime but it is ultimately less about the crime and more about the liability of Trump continuing to hold his office. And that has to do with Trump and the way he is choosing to relate to his adversaries.

I wouldn't worry about our bet. the odds are still much more in your favor... At least the last couple of months have at least made the wager a bit more interesting :)
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Re: Countdown To Impeachment

Unread postby Newfie » Sun 27 Oct 2019, 12:37:48

Cog wrote:The FBI does not audio tape or video interviews. 302's are written. Easier to alter that way. Never talk to a federal agent without a lawyer present. In fact, never talk to one at all. You have nothing to gain from it but much to lose. Just ask Flynn.


My Wife just pointed out that in PA a “302” is an involuntary commitment for psychological evaluation. LOL
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