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Re: THE Democrat Thread Pt. 3

Unread postPosted: Sat 07 Sep 2019, 00:54:26
by Plantagenet
jedrider wrote: What the third world should do is not a major concern with the rest of Americans anyway.


Thats probably why Bernie started babbling about funding more abortions in the third world in the climate change debate. That way Bernie didn't have to criticize oil companies or antagonize potential voters in America but instead could point the finger at poor people in the third world. Of course it didn't make any sense.........but then none of these candidates are likely to implement their climate change policies anyway.

Cheers@

Re: THE Democrat Thread Pt. 3

Unread postPosted: Sat 07 Sep 2019, 01:42:26
by Cog
Revi wrote:
Cog wrote:Getting people fired up to embrace full on socialism might be more of a trick than you imagine.


Or how about socialism like they have in Europe, where working people get health care?


So I can have VA quality health care? I'll pass.

Re: THE Democrat Thread Pt. 3

Unread postPosted: Sat 07 Sep 2019, 06:53:17
by Newfie
Cog,

Do you really believe we have a better health care system in the USA? Or just one that is better for you?

Re: THE Democrat Thread Pt. 3

Unread postPosted: Sat 07 Sep 2019, 10:45:41
by Cog
Newfie wrote:Cog,

Do you really believe we have a better health care system in the USA? Or just one that is better for you?


Overall, if you are employed with a company that provides health insurance for you, I tend to think you are better off. If you live on the margins then you have Medicaid. But rarely have I had to wait to see a specialist and have never had my health care rationed. Both of which do happen in countries that have socialized health care.

Re: THE Democrat Thread Pt. 3

Unread postPosted: Sat 07 Sep 2019, 11:10:03
by Newfie
OK, that’s what I thought, you are judging by your experience, and I have had the same experience.

However I do see some drawbacks.

Because I worked for 40 years without being laid off I was never without health care. This creates tremendous pressure to never ever allow yourself to be laid off. Or take some time off between jobs.

This stress creates psychological problems in many, perhaps even yourself, without being aware. It contributes to stress related diseases such as hypertension and obesity and depression which can lead to suicide.

It’s especially rough on folks who develop a pre-existing condition within the family, this can lick them into the job they have, make them almost unemployable.

It also leads to the lack of pricing, no true price discovery. Those of us with goldfish plans get wacked with high hospital bills so that the excess they get from covers the shortfall in payment from Medicare, Medicaid, and charity walk ins they can not refuse.

I believe it also erodes your salary, it’s another one of the hidden taxes. You get”compensation” in the form of payroll and benefits. If the health benefit is very expensive, and they are, then there is less money for your pocket. Because the insurance payment system is convoluted and expensive your “compensation” dollars Pay for all the various clerks and insurance specialist and collections agencies involved. A whole industry that feeds on the waste of our current work based insurance system.

If we got rid of this work based system, implemented some basic and catastrophic coverage, then the savings could go to you in your pocket to pay for whatever supplemental plan you want.

Re: THE Democrat Thread Pt. 3

Unread postPosted: Sat 07 Sep 2019, 11:25:59
by rockdoc123
Overall, if you are employed with a company that provides health insurance for you, I tend to think you are better off. If you live on the margins then you have Medicaid. But rarely have I had to wait to see a specialist and have never had my health care rationed. Both of which do happen in countries that have socialized health care.


that seems to be the case in Canada. The social health care system results in major overuse of facilities and doctors/staff. Wait times in emergency where I am is ridiculous and the wait times for non-elective surgery are also way too long in comparison to the US. Wait times for elective surgery are completely ridiculous. To get a knee replacement done in parts of Canada can be a three year wait in comparison to places in the US where it can be done in months. This results in many people going to the US to places like the Mayo clinic and elsewhere to get surgery completed. There just seems to be no controls over spending or priorities which I think is a product of the social system where administrators aren't held accountable for cost overruns or efficiency failures. There has been an attempt in certain provinces to have some private health care along with the social health care system. This makes sense to me given that those who can afford to go to private care will and that then takes some pressure off the social system. It is, however, blocked vehemently by the liberal left as they think it is somehow "elitist", which of course does nothing to solve the problem. Social health care and Affordable health care are two different things to my mind.
I had a friend of mine once extoll the virtues of the health care system that Castro had implemented in Cuba. He had spent a vacation in the Havana area and was made aware that everyone had access to all the health care they needed. Unfortunately, he wasn't aware that most of the trained doctors had left, their jobs were often performed by nurses and aides and that access to modern equipment and drugs was almost non-existent. But hey, it's social health care and everyone gets the same treatment so it must be good. :roll:

Re: THE Democrat Thread Pt. 3

Unread postPosted: Sat 07 Sep 2019, 11:42:08
by jedrider
Newfie wrote:Cog,

Do you really believe we have a better health care system in the USA? Or just one that is better for you?


We have a non-egalitarian healthcare system. We have a wasteful healthcare system. As long as the USA lives off of credit, everything is just hunky-dory here!

I have a company health plan that is terrific. But, even I recognize how wasteful it can be if one visits a hospital. There is a reason that many bankruptcies are a result of medical bills.

Re: THE Democrat Thread Pt. 3

Unread postPosted: Sat 07 Sep 2019, 12:57:04
by Newfie
That’s kind of what I was trying to point out in my long post to Cog above. That wastefulness is just like an additional tax.

Re: THE Democrat Thread Pt. 3

Unread postPosted: Mon 09 Sep 2019, 14:23:27
by jedrider
The Trickle-Up Economy

Andrew Yang's AMAZING Speech at the DNC Summer 2019 Meeting - 8/23/19
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzk7unan4Sc&list=RDR7GnjM3TJsU&index=3


Well, hopefully, in our future will be one of these candidates. Which one?

Well, two questions:
1. Which candidates make sense when you listen to them?
2. Which of the candidates will get weeded through this primary process, and is that going to turn out OK?

The two questions are completely independent IMO.

Last time around, Bernie made sense but Hillary was the anointed one.

Re: THE Democrat Thread Pt. 3

Unread postPosted: Mon 09 Sep 2019, 15:00:55
by yellowcanoe
rockdoc123 wrote:
Overall, if you are employed with a company that provides health insurance for you, I tend to think you are better off. If you live on the margins then you have Medicaid. But rarely have I had to wait to see a specialist and have never had my health care rationed. Both of which do happen in countries that have socialized health care.


that seems to be the case in Canada. The social health care system results in major overuse of facilities and doctors/staff. Wait times in emergency where I am is ridiculous and the wait times for non-elective surgery are also way too long in comparison to the US. Wait times for elective surgery are completely ridiculous. To get a knee replacement done in parts of Canada can be a three year wait in comparison to places in the US where it can be done in months. This results in many people going to the US to places like the Mayo clinic and elsewhere to get surgery completed. There just seems to be no controls over spending or priorities which I think is a product of the social system where administrators aren't held accountable for cost overruns or efficiency failures.


I don't subscribe to the idea that there is a large amount of spending mismanagement in the Canadian system. I think the biggest problem is that the cost of providing health care is rising faster than our willingness to pay for it due to an aging population, new or improved medical procedures that present higher or entirely new costs, population growth and extremely expensive genetic drugs. If costs are rising faster than the funding, wait lists are inevitable. The system does provide good care if people have a life threatening condition such as cancer or a heart condition where treatment cannot wait. My wife's cousins daughter contracted a rare medical condition necessitating a heart transplant at the age of 25. Unfortunately her body had a strong propensity to reject the new heart so at the age of 30 a second transplant was needed. Alas, after spending a year at the Heart Institute here in Ottawa she died before being able to receive a new heart. I'd have to figure that the cost of her medical care, including a number of emergency transfers to Ottawa from the far side of the province would have run into the millions of dollars.

rockdoc123 wrote:There has been an attempt in certain provinces to have some private health care along with the social health care system. This makes sense to me given that those who can afford to go to private care will and that then takes some pressure off the social system. It is, however, blocked vehemently by the liberal left as they think it is somehow "elitist", which of course does nothing to solve the problem. Social health care and Affordable health care are two different things to my mind.


Our system is certainly more affordable than the US system. However, it is clear that people are not willing to pay enough taxes to provide all the services that people would like to have. I therefore support the idea that the public system should not support services that have a high cost/benefit ratio and establish a second tier private health care system to provide services the public system doesn't provide, or simply faster service.

Re: THE Democrat Thread Pt. 3

Unread postPosted: Mon 09 Sep 2019, 18:18:32
by Newfie
A Biden presidency would unquestionably be another holding action on climate, at best. He might do a few moderate little reforms, but they would be stymied immediately in the courts, and Biden — if he is even aware of what is happening at this point — will shrug. America simply can't afford another four years twiddling our thumbs while a civilization-threatening catastrophe builds on the horizon.


https://theweek.com/articles/863216/joe ... atastrophe

“theweek” is listed on Mediabiasfact he I as “left bias”.

Re: THE Democrat Thread Pt. 3

Unread postPosted: Mon 09 Sep 2019, 20:59:11
by dissident
Plantagenet wrote:I think Bernie Sanders new call for more abortions in third world countries will really hurt his campaign. Bernie is already having trouble attracting support in the black community. While technically he is right that population growth does increase climate change, Bernie was really dumb to call for more abortions in third world countries as a way fight climate change.

bernie-sanders-call-for-third-world-population-control-to-fight-climate-change-

Image
Bernie just called for aborting third world babies to stop climate change


The stupid thing about losing black support over this call is that it is not relevant for Africa. Africa is a huge continent but it has only about one billion people. It is not exploding in population like India and China in the past. People have a lot of babies but infant mortality is very high so the population is stagnant. In fact, it is all the do-gooder support for health in Africa that results in net growth. Either develop and urbanize Africa properly so that the culture of high birth rates (necessity for survival and propagation) goes away, or stop with band-aids that are actually self-defeating in the long run since they do not stop the poverty problem.

Re: THE Democrat Thread Pt. 3

Unread postPosted: Tue 10 Sep 2019, 07:18:41
by Newfie
Dissident,

The current thinking in population growth is I think significantly different from yours.

MOST of the population growth is projected to come from Africa.

Below is just the most readily available article of merit.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project ... ion_growth

Re: THE Democrat Thread Pt. 3

Unread postPosted: Tue 10 Sep 2019, 07:57:22
by Revi
Newfie wrote:Dissident,

The current thinking in population growth is I think significantly different from yours.

MOST of the population growth is projected to come from Africa.

Below is just the most readily available article of merit.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project ... ion_growth


Yes, the continent is projected to grow in population. The problem is that with less and less water and most of the continent's resources funneled to China it may not happen...

Re: THE Democrat Thread Pt. 3

Unread postPosted: Tue 10 Sep 2019, 10:50:37
by Newfie
That’s not a problem, unchecked growth, now THATS a problem.

Re: THE Democrat Thread Pt. 3

Unread postPosted: Tue 10 Sep 2019, 10:58:39
by Cog
Newfie wrote:That’s not a problem, unchecked growth, now THATS a problem.


So how do you stop people from reproducing Newfie?

Re: THE Democrat Thread Pt. 3

Unread postPosted: Tue 10 Sep 2019, 11:20:58
by Revi
Cog wrote:
Newfie wrote:That’s not a problem, unchecked growth, now THATS a problem.


I think we'll see the end of growth pretty soon...

Re: THE Democrat Thread Pt. 3

Unread postPosted: Tue 10 Sep 2019, 12:10:38
by Ibon
Cog wrote:
Newfie wrote:That’s not a problem, unchecked growth, now THATS a problem.


So how do you stop people from reproducing Newfie?


Background checks before they fuck!

Re: THE Democrat Thread Pt. 3

Unread postPosted: Tue 10 Sep 2019, 13:16:45
by Revi
Well we've lost Inslee and Hickenlooper, so people who know what's actually going on and weren't afraid to talk about it are not what the voters want. It would be nice to have someone who is peak oil/climate change aware steering this ship...

Re: THE Democrat Thread Pt. 3

Unread postPosted: Tue 10 Sep 2019, 14:52:40
by Newfie
Cog wrote:
Newfie wrote:That’s not a problem, unchecked growth, now THATS a problem.


So how do you stop people from reproducing Newfie?


See Revi’s post above mine.