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Re: President Donald J. Trump Domestic Pt. 1

Unread postPosted: Thu 06 Sep 2018, 09:19:50
by Cog
Let's hope ibon will honor his bet with me on trump serving out his term.

Re: Trump's Cabinet reportedly discussed invoking the 25th

Unread postPosted: Thu 06 Sep 2018, 09:37:11
by Cid_Yama
You guys really don't care about this guy. Only what you can get out of him before he eventually goes to jail, a mental institution, or starts WWIII so he can evoke martial law in order to hold on to power.

Hopefully our military won't stand for that AND STOP IT SHORT.

You dickheads will not win in the end. You cannot subvert the will of the majority without the majority putting an end to it. This IS, of course, AMERICA. To think you can pull that shit here, you are WRONG.

Fascism, whether you want to admit that is what you are, will not be allowed to survive in this country.

I grew up in a world that could spot a Nazi in a second, if you think we don't see you for what you are, you are mistaken. Regardless of any arguments you may put forward to the contrary.

This is a country OF THE PEOPLE, BY THE PEOPLE, FOR THE PEOPLE. They will not stand for YOU establishing authoritarian rule.

Re: Trump's Cabinet reportedly discussed invoking the 25th

Unread postPosted: Thu 06 Sep 2018, 09:40:29
by Cog
Election is over Cid. Did you not get the memo?

Re: Trump's Cabinet reportedly discussed invoking the 25th

Unread postPosted: Thu 06 Sep 2018, 09:47:46
by KaiserJeep
Cid, what did you think of Obama "ruling by executive order" because he was too inept a politician to get what he wanted?

I thought it was arrogant and even Fascist.

Re: Trump's Cabinet reportedly discussed invoking the 25th

Unread postPosted: Thu 06 Sep 2018, 11:12:55
by Cog
Cid is advocating the overthrow of a duly elected president. Not that I'm surprised.

Re: Trump's Cabinet reportedly discussed invoking the 25th

Unread postPosted: Thu 06 Sep 2018, 11:32:40
by mmasters
Surprised we haven't heard Trump is a reptilian shape shifter yet.

Re: Trump's Cabinet reportedly discussed invoking the 25th

Unread postPosted: Thu 06 Sep 2018, 11:46:45
by evilgenius
Who thinks this points out a flaw in the American electoral system? I've thought for some time that American exceptionalism has covered this flaw. Americans are too arrogant to see their own flaws. For example, if there was a rigged election, since we have it written in the Constitution that there is a specific day we will all vote upon we have to throw a conflict to the Supreme Court. We will never entertain the idea of having another election. In the age of hacking, maybe that's not such a good idea. That's only one part of it. This is a republic, so we operate politically through our elected representatives. That naturally removes us one step from the mob rule that Aristotle thought that all democracies were eventually subject to. But it also allows for the undo influence of the monied interests in the system, as opposed to those of the average citizen. Capitalism was not as fully developed when the founding fathers thought up our system. We could address that, but then again Americans do everything right to begin with. It says so right in our Constitution, doesn't it?

Re: Trump's Cabinet reportedly discussed invoking the 25th

Unread postPosted: Thu 06 Sep 2018, 11:49:02
by Plantagenet
Ibon wrote:Erratic, vile, corrupt, criminal, amoral, mentally and intellectually unfit for his office, dangerous.

This is no longer partisan.

This is just the truth of who our asshole president is.


I'd expand that and say in a truly nonpartisan way that its pretty typically of almost all US politicians. Look at the last one....he got caught spying on foreign government leaders again and again, and now he's gotten caught orchestrating a campaign to lie to the FISA court and subvert the US intelligence system just so the Ds could wiretap the Trump campaign in 2016.

Pretty much anyone who is driven to become President isn't a normal, regular nice guy.

Ibon wrote:Right about on time as I predicted two years ago when I said I give him two years until he implodes.


You may be right on that one. I can't believe Trump hasn't had a stroke yet given his personality type and all the stress he must be dealing with.

Cheers!

Re: Trump's Cabinet reportedly discussed invoking the 25th

Unread postPosted: Thu 06 Sep 2018, 14:01:23
by Cog
I'm very surprised that Cid has not explained section 4 of the 25 amendment and explain how he sees it being invoked by vp Pence.

Let me get to an important feature of the 25th amendment. The VP has to invoke it no matter how many cabinet secretaries would support it. Does Cid believe that Pence would do this and can he provide evidence to that fact?

What we have here is an act of mental masturbation to achieve what Dems could not achieve in an election.

Re: Trump's Cabinet reportedly discussed invoking the 25th

Unread postPosted: Thu 06 Sep 2018, 17:41:29
by Outcast_Searcher
Cid_Yama wrote:You dickheads will not win in the end. You cannot subvert the will of the majority without the majority putting an end to it. This IS, of course, AMERICA. To think you can pull that shit here, you are WRONG.

Calling people names makes you look like a child. It certainly doesn't make your case.

Disclosure: I'm not a Trump supporter, nor did I vote for him (or HRC). However, I don't think leftists should be able to throw the POTUS out of office because he makes them whine.

I keep waiting for a good court case with strong evidence, given all the whining we see daily places like the NYT, and all the left wing predictions. Instead, what I see is more of the same and lots and lots of crickets, re true substance in terms of proof Trump helped the Russians alter the POTUS election by actually changing votes, for example.

As you said. This is America. There are rules, at least theoretically.

Re: Trump's Cabinet reportedly discussed invoking the 25th

Unread postPosted: Thu 06 Sep 2018, 17:46:46
by Outcast_Searcher
Plantagenet wrote:
Ibon wrote:Erratic, vile, corrupt, criminal, amoral, mentally and intellectually unfit for his office, dangerous.

This is no longer partisan.

This is just the truth of who our asshole president is.


I'd expand that and say in a truly nonpartisan way that its pretty typically of almost all US politicians.

+1

But let's not forget the Beltway lobbyists.

Now, let's all look in the mirror, try acting like honest adults for a moment and (drum roll please) remember WHY the lobbyists get away with their behavior, and all the clowns in the Beltway keep getting re-elected.

We ALL tend to act in our own self interest, regardless of how much we may preach (or imagine) how pure we are, while everyone ELSE is selfish, evil, etc.

...

But it's clearly far easier to point fingers at the other side, the rich, etc. and feel better about oneself. Good hobby, I suppose. Doesn't accomplish much though.

Re: Trump's Cabinet reportedly discussed invoking the 25th

Unread postPosted: Thu 06 Sep 2018, 17:57:36
by ralfy

Re: Trump's Cabinet reportedly discussed invoking the 25th

Unread postPosted: Thu 06 Sep 2018, 18:36:32
by Cog
It would actually be easier to remove a president through impeachment than a 25th amendment proceeding. Under the 25th if the president objects to removal, you need a 2/3rd vote in the House AND Senate. An impeachment only requires a majority in the house and a two thirds in the senate. This concludes today's lesson on constitutional law.

Re: Trump's Cabinet reportedly discussed invoking the 25th

Unread postPosted: Thu 06 Sep 2018, 21:18:26
by rockdoc123
It would actually be easier to remove a president through impeachment than a 25th amendment proceeding.

Looking at all the activity from the 10,000 foot level I think what is going on is the "left" or the "anti-Trump" are doing what they can to get Trump to react and make himself look as foolish and crazy as possible, they actually don't think there is any hope of impeachment or enacting the 25th. If Trump never tweeted this would never be a problem..he could rant and do whatever behind the scenes and no one would be the wiser or care (my guess is many of the former Presidents did the same). The problem is he keeps tweeting and making everyone actually believe we are really in "crazy town". His opponents know this and realize all they have to do is push the right buttons. I suspect paranoia is now ruling the roost. If you want to stop all of this nonsense take away his phone and computer access.

Re: Trump's Cabinet reportedly discussed invoking the 25th

Unread postPosted: Thu 06 Sep 2018, 21:46:18
by Cog
The tweets are loved by Trump supporters. The left is enraged by them. Trump knows the effect they have.

Re: President Donald J. Trump Domestic Pt. 1

Unread postPosted: Fri 07 Sep 2018, 10:16:47
by Newfie
I’ve seen reports that Trump has said “impeachment would turn the US into a third world nation” and (very roughly) that he told a rally audience that if he is impeached it is their fault.

To my ear those are not typical Trumpisims, not the kind of thing such an astute politician would say in that position. I think that they show signs of stress. It would only be remarkable if he is not under a great deal of stress, lord knows enough people are tying to break him.

Obviously this is pretty wild speculation.

Just recording my thoughts in case I’m right, ignore and forget if I’m wrong. ;)

Re: Trump's Cabinet reportedly discussed invoking the 25th

Unread postPosted: Fri 07 Sep 2018, 11:33:36
by evilgenius
Maybe the Constitution should be amended to say, "and the votes cast shall be available for recount for a reasonable period of time." As the founding fathers never imagined that we would dare to introduce ephemeral voting devices that don't have "paper trails" that might be a good idea.

Amongst other changes, I would also like to see the number of members of the House of Representatives increased. In fact, I would like to see the number represent a percentage of the population rather than a fixed number that is supposed to represent the people according to population. That doesn't have to mean the number would eventually become so large as to become completely unwieldy, though some of that is inherent to representation by population. I would just like it to become closer to a number where the actual number of people that a representative represents is not so large that they could not hear from their constituents, in their offices preferably, if they tried. I don't think the founding fathers ever dreamed that the US would reach a population of 330 million and growing either. What is that, something like equal to a third of all of the people who were alive when they wrote the Constitution to begin with? This is pertinent to the role of money within our system as it has developed over the course of the Twentieth Century and been handed down to us in the Twenty First. The small number of representatives is too easily manipulated by orchestrated money. It's good that the House has control over the purse strings. It's not good that having that, they are also limited in size to a number that is so easily influenced through campaign contributions. Curbing that influence is most easily achieved by making those who contribute to it have to stretch their dollars, I think.

Re: President Donald J. Trump Domestic Pt. 1

Unread postPosted: Fri 07 Sep 2018, 12:56:48
by Cog
Trump is not a politician.

Re: President Donald J. Trump Domestic Pt. 1

Unread postPosted: Fri 07 Sep 2018, 14:19:13
by Newfie
Oh he is very much a pol, a slightly different kind, but a pol one the less.

I wish him well, but I think things are beginning to wear him down. If you recall I’ve noted my mental image is of a class oaf, bumbling around, with all the “cool” guys (MSM et al) picking in him, trying make him worse than he is, great sport. Some may see him as a bull moose beleaguered by a wolf pack.

I don’t particularly like him, he is often a complete ass (oaf? Class clown?) but that does not excuse the relentless attacks.

I’m just noting I think I’m seeing him start to stumble.

Re: President Donald J. Trump Domestic Pt. 1

Unread postPosted: Fri 07 Sep 2018, 14:40:53
by mmasters
IMO Trump is more of a CEO than a politician.