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Healing The Partisan Divide Pt. 3

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Healing The Partisan Divide Pt. 3

Unread postby Pops » Wed 11 Jul 2018, 15:36:19

Plantagenet wrote:But Walter Cronkite and the rest of the mainstream media at the time remained calm and composed as the country went insane.

It is called broadcasting, to succeed you needed to have a broad appeal. Most cities hd 3 or 4 stations vieing for the same audience, Walter wasn't particularly moderate, he was just looking for ratings.

Today we have narrowcasting. Technology has given us 500 channels - and that's just TV— and they can get by with just a sliver of the market.

And the endgame is "Social" media, which is anything but social. Just the opposite. No matter how marginal your view you can find it echoed back at you just as credibly as if it were from Walter himself and if all you have is resentment and anger at everyone you are right at home.

Which of course brings us to trolls and the King of Trolls.


[quote=Ibon]Why do both sides feel squeezed?[/quote]

I think the left thought they'd "won", so did the right
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Re: Healing The Partisan Divide Pt. 2

Unread postby Ibon » Wed 11 Jul 2018, 16:09:33

Pops wrote:Which of course brings us to trolls and the King of Trolls.


.



My brother mentioned recently that he notices in his interaction with his customers and other social contacts a definite increase in general nastiness, outrage, intolerance. He believes that this increase has something to do with folks feeling inspired by the King of Trolls who then feel empowered to act like assholes too. It sets a new standard.
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Re: Healing The Partisan Divide Pt. 2

Unread postby Newfie » Wed 11 Jul 2018, 16:11:57

Plant,

That Harris Alienation poll I referenced, started under Ike or something atnabout 25. Under Nixon it went up to about 35, it slowly rise to 55-60 but stabilized and then retreated to 50ish under GW Bush. It shot up to 70 under Obama.

I was surprised buy the difference between now and the Nixon admin. I would have thought then was about in a par with now, guess not.
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Re: Healing The Partisan Divide Pt. 2

Unread postby Pops » Wed 11 Jul 2018, 16:30:31

Ibon wrote:He believes that this increase has something to do with folks feeling inspired by the King of Trolls who then feel empowered to act like assholes too. It sets a new standard.

I just can't fathom the depth of the resentment from the most fortunate people ever to walk upright.
The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves -- in their separate, and individual capacities.
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Re: Healing The Partisan Divide Pt. 2

Unread postby Newfie » Wed 11 Jul 2018, 16:42:48

I can. Not supporting it but understanding it. At least maybe a bit of it.

Years ago one day a bunch of us Blue collars were sitting around talking about meeting our wives and how it changed our lives. The common them went like this: I was a young buck drinking, doing drugs, whoring around when this fine young lady got hold of me and straightened me out and saved my life.”

This tells me that a lot of guys have a sort of guilt for some of their inner urges.

Now some guy comes along and expresses those urges out loud and he’s the effing President of the USA.

These guys who have been feeling kinda jerky for being what they were are getting this message that “Maybe what your were, and still are somewhere deep inside, was not as toxic as you thought. You are really an OK guy.

That is a deeply empowering message. And it cost across all lines of race. And it touches all those women who rescued their guys and in their hearts know they are still flawed but they still love him and are proud he would go all midevil if they were threatened.

Does that explain anything or resonate at all?
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Re: Healing The Partisan Divide Pt. 2

Unread postby Plantagenet » Wed 11 Jul 2018, 17:26:09

Newfie wrote:
Ibon wrote:
Pops wrote:.... the King of Trolls.

.. the King of Trolls .

...the effing President


The King of Trolls....I like that for Trump-the-effing-president. And Trump's trolling seems to send the Ds into madness, which is just what trolls want. Calling for the end of ICE and open borders and complaining about Trump's attacks on MS-13 because they are Hispanic immigrants is utterly wacky, but Trump has somehow gotten the Ds to do it. A-maz-ing.

Personally, I've gotten to the point where Trump's trolling doesn't bother me at all. I pretty much ignore whatever Trump says, and if he says it in a tweet I'm even more not interested. Yes, Trump is a troll---so why pay attention to what he says if you know he's trolling half the time?

As with most politicians I'm much more concerned about what they do over what they say. And, although it pains me to say it, some of the things Trump does are actually kinda good.

For instance nominating Kavanaugh for the SCOTUS. Kavanaugh is a brilliant scholar and a fine intellect. Not what you'd expect from Trump, but it looks like he's going to give us two quite good people as judges on the SCOTUS.

And the tax cuts. Say what you will, the economy and the market are doing good, probably in part due to Trump's tax cuts. And everytime I run one of the tax calculators, it shows I save money because of the doubling of the personal exemption. And as I bonus, I won't have to spend hours and hours on itemizing trying to beat the personal exemption. I'm sure the corporations are getting tax cuts thousands of times bigger then mine, but I'm not going to complain about getting a tax cut. And I'm not going to be happy if the Ds try to increase my taxes now that they've been cut.

And take the current friction with the EU over NATO. Presidents for decades have complained that EU countries aren't meeting their treaty commitments to NATO. If Trump trolling the EU gets them to pony up their fair share, then that will be a good thing IMHO.

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Yes Trump is the King of the Trolls. But he also, maybe completely by accident, sometimes does something that isn't absolutely terrible.

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Re: Healing The Partisan Divide Pt. 2

Unread postby Newfie » Wed 11 Jul 2018, 17:48:07

Plant,
I completely agree.
What he what he does not what he says.
Some things he does I agree with. Now your “agree” list and mine may be similar or not, they for sure are not identical. But that’s OK.

I did the same thing with Obama and was not pleased.
I think Obama lied as much as Trump, he just did it with Ivy League swagger.
He probably irritated folks as much as Trump, but it was all behind the curtains.
I remember when Merkel found out we were taping her phones. Not a happy lady. But it got papered over and hushed.
And when Obama’s UN Ambassador told the Russian and Syrians to quit “whining” because we killed 97 troops in a “mistake.” Hardly high statemanship. The Russians were sufficiently annoyed to while out our joint command center IIRC.
Yeah, judge by deeds not words.

I do, it’s why I quit voting, their lips were moving. I vote “None of the above.”
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Re: Healing The Partisan Divide Pt. 2

Unread postby Newfie » Wed 11 Jul 2018, 17:54:30

OK so here Newfies quick plan to fix the USA. Just a rough concept, to be improved.

NO MORE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTIONS

Make a list of all non felony convicted ex-Govenors under age 70 who are willing to be President. Put their names in a hat. Pick one. The looser is President for 4 years. At the end of this term the Congress (preserving electorial college balance) MAY elect to keep him for a second and final term.

Brilliant, no?
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Re: Healing The Partisan Divide Pt. 2

Unread postby Pops » Wed 11 Jul 2018, 18:54:44

I am just as much a racist, misogynist, homophobe and lech as the next guy.
The difference between me and the MAGA mob is I make an effort not to be offensive or a jerk whereas that seems their whole point. That isn't guilt, it's just empathy. Jesus talked about it somewhere, one could look it up I guess.

Not sure what motivates people. Fear, "inferiority complex" lack of ... what...?

But Plant's right (Gah!) the KOTOTUS sends Ds into paroxysm of indignation running around like their heads are on fire and their asses catchin'.

[deleted a whole rant about KoT lies and conspiracy theories but it was just an example of my ass catching, LOL]
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Re: Healing The Partisan Divide Pt. 2

Unread postby Pops » Wed 11 Jul 2018, 20:43:40

LOL
The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves -- in their separate, and individual capacities.
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Re: Healing The Partisan Divide Pt. 3

Unread postby onlooker » Sat 14 Jul 2018, 17:14:42

Whatever, you may think of his actual commentaries, Trump's regular use of twitter is a brilliant move. Reaching out directly to the people. Our Twitter and Chief is astute lol
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Re: Healing The Partisan Divide Pt. 3

Unread postby jedrider » Wed 18 Jul 2018, 13:53:05

onlooker wrote:Whatever, you may think of his actual commentaries, Trump's regular use of twitter is a brilliant move. Reaching out directly to the people. Our Twitter and Chief is astute lol


Trump realized early on, that the 'show must go on'. The more lurid the show, the more attention is paid to it. He's an idiot-savant natural at that, certainly. Unless something bad happens to his Presidency, he can go down in history as the 'Great Dissimulator', only second to Reagan as the 'Great Communicator'. Of course, FDR was better than both together at that. The new century has been kicked off by a series of 'Great Mediocrities' as POTUS. It must all be part of what is meant by MAGA.
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Re: Healing The Partisan Divide Pt. 3

Unread postby Newfie » Wed 18 Jul 2018, 15:54:20

I find it really hard to find a President I truly admire.
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Re: Healing The Partisan Divide Pt. 3

Unread postby careinke » Wed 18 Jul 2018, 18:36:56

Newfie wrote:I find it really hard to find a President I truly admire.


I kind of liked Thomas Jefferson, but that was a long time ago....
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Re: Healing The Partisan Divide Pt. 3

Unread postby Newfie » Thu 19 Jul 2018, 04:17:07

I was more in favor of John Adams. Jefferson’s use of pseudonyms in attacking his foes turned me off, although most did it then.
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Re: Healing The Partisan Divide Pt. 3

Unread postby Tanada » Fri 20 Jul 2018, 07:48:56

Newfie wrote:I was more in favor of John Adams. Jefferson’s use of pseudonyms in attacking his foes turned me off, although most did it then.


President John Adams was a decent person who did things as Vice President that really derailed the original plan of the constitution and I find that unforgivable. He did alright as President, certainly better than either Bush or Obama, but he was the second and helped set the mold for all who would follow. His actions as first VP also set a mold for that office, and for the most part those who have held the office since 1812 have stuck to the Adams mold for the office rather than the way it was designed in the Constitution.
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Re: Healing The Partisan Divide Pt. 3

Unread postby jedrider » Sat 21 Jul 2018, 14:08:20

Newfie wrote:Here we diverge Pops. I don’t see one party as superior to the other, they both seem to support and enlarge the monied class. The “difference” are just props to stir up the minions. It makes much noise and smoke and hides the behind the scenes maneuvering. Obama was all about “drill baby drill”, don’t believe me? READ the text of his big climate change speech. Hillary was a globalist and war hawk.

If there is to be a new movement it has to come from outside the established parties. That’s why I encourage looking for a different axis, not left/right but up/down. Up being the established parties, down being the masses.


Well, getting back on topic :)

This is the inevitable class structure for a non-egalitarian society:

Wealthy
Middle Class
Non-propertied Class

The Partisan Divide is a convenient way for the wealthy class to divide everyone else, so this is something they wish to keep.

If everyone but the wealthy is represented as a tree truck with a crack, the Partisan Divide is the wedge being driven through it. It is also the great distraction while the robber class makes off with everything.

So, we have a cultural divide and a class divide and an intellectual divide. I'm finished for now :-D
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Re: Healing The Partisan Divide Pt. 3

Unread postby jedrider » Sat 21 Jul 2018, 15:08:32

Also, explain this to me:

"While Americans overall were nearly evenly divided on whether American culture and way of life have changed for worse (51 percent) or better (48 percent) since the 1950s, white evangelical Protestants were likelier than any other demographic group to say things have changed for the worse since the 1950s (74 percent)."

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/07/robert-jones-white-christian-america/532587/

Someone here said that never have a more privileged bunch of people felt that their lot was so much under attack. This is part of that culture war raging. It's a war of perceptions, not of any actual privilege.
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Re: Healing The Partisan Divide Pt. 3

Unread postby Newfie » Sat 21 Jul 2018, 15:56:21

How do you know white evangelical Protestants where not actually more disadvantaged in that period? Is there some stat for that?
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