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As cops quit- is social breakdown on the horizon?

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As cops quit- is social breakdown on the horizon?

Unread postby C8 » Mon 07 Sep 2015, 13:48:25

Encouraged from the very top, by Obama and Holder, a vigorous assault on the nations police has occurred. Waves of demonstrations have occurred- at first they were geared to the legitimate concern of police abuse but have gradually morphed into a generalized anti police message. Increasingly members of the Black Lives Matter movement and others have called for attacking officers and murdering them.

It is hard to to police work- you have to respond to a near lighting fast movement of a suspect- if you are too slow he may kill you, if you kill him and he turns out to be unarmed- you will become a national symbol of hate by the nations media- your family may be targeted, you WILL be sued, your family may even be targeted- and all of this EVEN IF YOU DID THE RIGHT THING.

Not surprisingly, many are deciding that this job isn't worth it and more police are quitting. Worse, new recruiting classes are not supplying enough replacements young people decide its not worth it to be a living target.

Police departments face a recruiting shortage amid a growing anti-cop mood that some fear has taken the pride out of peacekeeping and put targets on the backs of the men and women in blue.
Open calls for the killing of police have been followed by assassinations, including last week’s murder in Texas of a Harris County sheriff’s deputy. Instead of dialing back the incendiary rhetoric, groups including “Black Lives Matter” have instead doubled down at demonstrations with chants of “Pigs in a blanket, fry ’em like bacon.” Public safety officials fear the net effect has been to demonize police, and diminish the job.

“It’s a lot harder to sell now,” Jeff Roorda, business manager of the St. Louis Police Officers Association and former state representative, told FoxNews.com. “This is a very real phenomenon.”

“You no longer just have to worry about your life while in uniform,” he said. “Now you have to be worried about the well-being of your family,” he said.
Roorda said the new academy class continues to be delayed and the police force loses about double the amount of officers per year than in the past.

Knowing police face public scorn or career-ending legal battles even if they acted properly has convinced many prospective cops to abandon their dreams of patrolling America’s streets.
“I saw all this anti-cop propaganda and I was like, ‘Who needs this?’” said Antonio, a New Yorker who asked that only his first name be used. The 32-year-old had applied and been accepted into the NYPD academy, but withdrew his candidacy amid the cop-bashing climate sweeping the country.

Recruitment nationally is “way down,” said Jonathan Thompson, executive director of the National Sheriff’s Association. He said some sheriffs around the country say the number of applications has fallen by as much as 50 percent.

Sgt. Delroy Burton, chairman of the DC Police Union in Washington, compared the current treatment of police to veterans returning from the Vietnam War.

“We have to fight the bad guys, and the policymakers go unnoticed,” he said.

Burton, who was born in Jamaica and is a former U.S. Marine, said his police force is about 131 officers understaffed and has seen nearly 600 officers resign in the past 19 months — a number he said is unheard of.

“We’re sitting ducks,” he said. “We’re in these uniforms, brightly colored cars and there’s nothing we can do. And the vast majority supports this loud vocal minority.”


http://nypost.com/2015/09/07/police-fac ... r-on-cops/

Meanwhile the anti-cop protests are intensifying and becoming more violent (like many leftest protests in general)

About 100 demonstrators marched through downtown Olympia Saturday evening chanting "Nazis out of Oly" as well as anti-police slogans.

Many in the crowd wore black and had bandanas covering their faces. A few were carrying bats. They passed out fliers saying they were there to counter a Nazi gathering that had been called for Saturday night in Olympia.

The group gathered about 7 p.m. near the Harbor Days vendor tents on Percival Landing then set out up Fourth Avenue about 8 p.m., carrying a banner that read “All Cops are Bastards.” They marched past City Hall, then back to Percival Landing. Some were lighting fireworks; others knocked over trash cans, but passersby picked them up.

One young man who was watching the crowd remarked, “We do need the police. Otherwise, I’d have to be down here. I’m in the Army, by the way.”

When a white truck drove through the crowd of demonstrators near the Big Whisky at Fifth and Franklin, one of the demonstrators with a bat hit the truck. The driver stopped, then drove away.

About 9 p.m., there were reports that a demonstrator had hit a motorcyclist, and he was taken away by ambulance.

At about 9:45 p.m., demonstrators smashed the glass in the door at City Hall. Shortly after, about 15 Olympia Police officers emerged from a police vehicle at City Hall. They were wearing riot gear and carrying night sticks. They urged all bystanders to leave the area.

Read more here: http://www.theolympian.com/news/local/a ... rylink=cpy


As people quit the police it is going to embolden criminals and protesters to become ever more aggressive- given that many US mayors are black and don't want to cross the BLM movement things may go out of control quickly.

This wouldn't be a Peak Oil based collapse- but a liberal policy based collapse- as the demographics of the US change to include more anti-authority types and police haters the entire social fabric may rip apart.

Collapse by any other name is still collapse.
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Re: As cops quit- is social breakdown on the horizon?

Unread postby Apneaman » Mon 07 Sep 2015, 14:21:00

Once again you reduce highly complex problems on the decadal scale to, "it's Obama's fault." You ever wonder why no one takes you seriously?

Here's a serious question, Define social breakdown. Is it an event or a process?

You also might want to include cops ever shrinking pay and benefits in your analysis and realize that they are part of the greater society too and have changed for the worst along with everyone else. It's a family affair and the guilt and responsibility is only a matter of degree.
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Re: As cops quit- is social breakdown on the horizon?

Unread postby onlooker » Mon 07 Sep 2015, 14:44:21

C8, I have noticed with you that you seem always to take the conservative/authority viewpoint and side. I and others could probably make just the same argument stating the opposite that police abuse is a harbinger of social breakdown. These times are getting tough and their are many sides to the same issue.
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Re: As cops quit- is social breakdown on the horizon?

Unread postby beamofthewave » Mon 07 Sep 2015, 15:08:46

I was federal law enforcement and am now retired. I am also very liberal and I cannot understand how these cops who have peppered sprayed, killed teenagers for looking at them are represented as the typical law enforcement stereotype or that the typical is conservative. There should be outrage and if a person is thinking they don't want to be a police officer because of this outrage then I am personally glad they are choosing not to enter the profession.
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Re: As cops quit- is social breakdown on the horizon?

Unread postby eugene » Mon 07 Sep 2015, 15:19:29

I wasn't around the legal system until my early 30s and then was around it for decades. Very early on, my trust switched to fear. The legal system is filled with personal agendas, attorneys striving for advancement, racial bias, judges who should never be on the bench, poorly trained police, etc. It's called corruption. For me, the legal system is about like Vegas: Step right up folks and place a bet as to the outcome. Just saw too much to ever trust again
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Re: As cops quit- is social breakdown on the horizon?

Unread postby evilgenius » Mon 07 Sep 2015, 15:28:49

You're not asking the obvious question. How many cops do we really need?

When times were great, and the tax money was rolling in from other sources than the police, the police departments grew in many parts of the country, but not in others. Bureaucracies tend to grow like that, with the supply of money. Then, after 2007, the cops had to justify their existence, or at least pay their own way. The number of knick knackitty parking and moving violations suddenly increased in many small to medium sized towns. In the bigger cities the talk was more about potential fear. DUI enforcement, which was a big reason why the size of the forces grew to begin with, suddenly became much more important.

I live in Colorado. Several years ago I drove my mom on a trip to Kansas and Oklahoma, so that she could look at real estate. I saw maybe three cops in both of those other states, and I drove almost a thousand miles between the two of them. I wasn't ten miles back inside Colorado before I saw my first cop, and that was on a less well traveled road. After that they just kept coming. It isn't that I live in a police state. It is that Colorado has always had a different attitude than those more "BillyBob" states when it comes to enforcing DUI's. It's more of a business here.

Now, extrapolate this same way of thinking in terms of throwing police at social problems and imagine what life must be like in a city where a great many people are wanted for failure to appear (FTA). Think about the number of police required to enforce a money making scheme where arresting people brings in a lot of money, regardless of whether or not they will be found guilty, because it is onerous to make bond. It becomes a self-reinforcing problem, loss of time to jail equaling loss of a job. Jobs are hard to get. People fall into a class not necessarily of their own making. Real and imagined social issues external to this only add to the problem.

The things that have happened have not happened in a vacuum. The trouble is that the causes extend well beyond what one officer can, or should, do. I agree that being a police officer is one of the world's toughest jobs, especially when done right. It's even harder when they are asked to maintain a social order that won't maintain itself in the absence of their enforcement of order. Sometimes, probably most times, without it the social order will normalize to what you might expect from decent people. That doesn't always happen, however. That it doesn't, though, may not have anything to do with the cops. It may have more to do with everyone's personal investment and participation, which is less likely if the system has been making bank off of that very thing the entire time.
Last edited by evilgenius on Mon 07 Sep 2015, 15:59:51, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: As cops quit- is social breakdown on the horizon?

Unread postby PrestonSturges » Mon 07 Sep 2015, 15:43:38

Ten out of ten white supremacists agree Obama is going to start a race war. Modern conservatives pretend they weren't saying exactly the same thing about Martin Luther King, who was one of the most hated men in America. Moving along.....

Police in America seem to have horrible mental health problems, and suicide is one of their leading causes of death, in addition to their problems with domestic violence, drug and alcohol addiction. And then there is this current behavior of "If people complain, they leave us no choice but to kill them," which makes them look like weepy psychopaths. People have always thought I exaggerate when I say how easily people like this would form death squads and start picking names out of the phone book, but I think it makes my point when they say "Don't you dare criticize us, we're just too unstable!"
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Re: As cops quit- is social breakdown on the horizon?

Unread postby ennui2 » Mon 07 Sep 2015, 17:45:11

Apneaman wrote:Once again you reduce highly complex problems on the decadal scale to, "it's Obama's fault." You ever wonder why no one takes you seriously?


C8 is the inheritor to Planty's "all Obama-bashing all the time" throne.
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Re: As cops quit- is social breakdown on the horizon?

Unread postby Cog » Mon 07 Sep 2015, 18:32:47

I could have told you that you are wasting your time with this group C8. They still believe the BLM narrative that choir boy and future Nobel prize winner Michael Brown was executed from behind by Ku Klux Klan leader Darren Wilson. It is how they see the world.

But have fun with it.
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Re: As cops quit- is social breakdown on the horizon?

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Mon 07 Sep 2015, 18:42:34

Cog wrote:I could have told you that you are wasting your time with this group C8. They still believe the BLM narrative that choir boy and future Nobel prize winner Michael Brown was executed from behind by Ku Klux Klan leader Darren Wilson. It is how they see the world.

But have fun with it.

Trying to get a far left "social justice" liberal to look at facts affecting a specific case objectively is about as useful as trying to get far right science denialist conservatives to look at a specific case for, say, women's reproductive rights or AGW objectively.

Neither is going to happen very often. There seems to be too much emotionally invested in the belief system to actually look at the ongoing data stream in anything close to an objective way.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: As cops quit- is social breakdown on the horizon?

Unread postby jjhman » Mon 07 Sep 2015, 19:48:06

Many years ago I met a buddy of mine for lunch in a bar. As soon as we sat down a guy who worked with my friend invited himself to join us. He proceeded to expound to us what a terrible evening he had had the night before on his beat as a reserve cop. The statement I remember most from his monologue was how "after the third time the same drunk pukes on you you just have to beat the shit out of him"

I had to conclude that beating the shit out of someone was the reason he was a reserve cop. Since he had a good, well paying, day job he must have been working nights for some reason. His enthusiasm for that work was obvious.

Many years later I found myself on the local grand jury with a bunch of retired prison guards. They expressed their same fondness for the "physicality" of their chosen career.

I'm afraid that the day to day experience of being a cop is too de-humanizing for most decent people to experience for an extended period without psychological damage and those most eager for the experience do not have the character to behave well in the circumstance. Yet we need them, the thin blue line.
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Re: As cops quit- is social breakdown on the horizon?

Unread postby Oneaboveall » Mon 07 Sep 2015, 21:49:16

https://youtu.be/opknm1hYwv4

“When did the NYPD start suffering from PMS?” Maher asked as he wrapped up his show “Real Time With Bill Maher.”

“Seriously, if our deal with the police is that we have to constantly reassure them how much we love them unless they throw a tantrum, we're not supporting them," he said. "We're dating them,"


http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainmen ... -1.2072846
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How free are we today with the dominance of globalist capital and militarized security apparatus?
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Re: As cops quit- is social breakdown on the horizon?

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Tue 08 Sep 2015, 07:46:03

evil - I'm not sure Texas is very representative of most states on a variety of issues. We still have a very strong "wild west" attitude. Add that to the fact that most police departments here make the same point: they have a very limited ability to prevent a crime...any crime. Their primary responsibility kicks in after the crime is committed. In simple terms it’s up to you to protect yourself. Thus our fondness for concealed carry and open carry laws as well as now being legally able to be armed on a college campus. OTOH I’ve always been a proponent of being able to defend one self. OTOOH it scares the piss out of me to have so many folks around who lack the training, maturity and discipline to be armed.
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Re: As cops quit- is social breakdown on the horizon?

Unread postby Lore » Tue 08 Sep 2015, 08:05:27

Yes, you're always safer when everyone with a wild west mentality can shoot the crap out of each other.
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
... Theodore Roosevelt
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Re: As cops quit- is social breakdown on the horizon?

Unread postby Cog » Tue 08 Sep 2015, 08:20:41

statistically speaking people who conceal carry commit less crimes than any other demographic.
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Re: As cops quit- is social breakdown on the horizon?

Unread postby Lore » Tue 08 Sep 2015, 08:35:21

Statistically speaking, nations with Wild West mentalities and guns kill more people then others.
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
... Theodore Roosevelt
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Re: As cops quit- is social breakdown on the horizon?

Unread postby ennui2 » Tue 08 Sep 2015, 09:12:21

Lore wrote:Yes, you're always safer when everyone with a wild west mentality can shoot the crap out of each other.


That is, is it not, the post-collapse doomer manifesto? Everyone will be safe when they're poking shotguns out of their windows?
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