[MD]

As depletion pressures the US economy, increased personal and systemic tensions will drive increased conflict. This has always been the case, and no indication of change is in sight.

A new system exists that now will contribute to, and could grow into a primary driver for, ideological conflict. This new system is of course the internet with its free and wonderful structure of open exchange.

My concern is that the vitriol that drips here and there all over the internet, including this forum, combined with depletion pressures, could grow into a flood of group hatred.

Ideological conflict is coming to the United States. The mechanisms both new and old are in place. It won't be stopped. Some group, (as yet undefined but there are clear prospects) will find its members disenfranchised.

Go ahead then and engage in whatever hate speech you like, just beware the consequence. The citizens of the US will come to understand the bewildered and confused German population of 1930.

As for myself, the times call for peaceful and polite speech. I will respond as best I can.

[Aaron]

Interesting...

I wrote this recently...

http://www.energybulletin.net/22283.html

[MD]

Interesting...

I wrote this recently...

http://www.energybulletin.net/22283.html

Excellent balance in pointing out the positive power we all have at our disposal, if used wisely.

t'anks mon. (jamaican beach 71 days and counting! woo!)

[Jack]

Go ahead then and engage in whatever hate speech you like, just beware the consequence. The citizens of the US will come to understand the bewildered and confused German population of 1930.

It all depends on perspective, doesn't it? Since you've used Germany, keep in mind that good members of the Party did quite nicely. Some got assets held by the affected groups at bargain prices. Those inside the circle lived well, until they were swept away by war.

But will outside forces so easily overwhelm a nuclear-armed U.S. - especially since lack of oil availability may impede the ability to invade? I think the U.S. could go quite some time under such a paradigm.

One person's tragedy is another's windfall. And that's never more true than during times of crises.

[MD]

.... Since you've used Germany, keep in mind that good members of the Party did quite nicely. Some got assets held by the affected groups at bargain prices. Those inside the circle lived well, until they were swept away by war.....

That was exactly my point, was it unclear?

[Jack]

That was exactly my point, was it unclear?

My perception was that you were presenting the negative aspects of certain group dynamics. For example, you said:

My concern is that the vitriol that drips here and there all over the internet, including this forum, combined with depletion pressures, could grow into a flood of group hatred.

And also:

Go ahead then and engage in whatever hate speech you like, just beware the consequence.

My perspective was that an individual could gain from such a situation. Thus, I thought our views offered a contrast.

If I misunderstood your views, then let us ascribe the problem to the early hour.

[NEOPO]

Feeding conflict as opposed to what? pretending to be 100% PC?
Let us hold hands now and pretend to be united........

Most of the calm cool collected people here are only so because their nation has managed to wage war for resources to this point.
Take that away and I seriously doubt they would believe kind words would win the day.....

People like Alex jones and James kunstler have had more impact on me then any warm fuzzy PC bullshit.

I suppose I simply dont "get it" ....... are we going to fight for resources or not?
Are the chinese our friends or not?

[MD]

Feeding conflict as opposed to what? pretending to be 100% PC?
....

Try another option:

Be firm in conviction without using inflammatory language.

I see no value flame trolling is all, regardless the motive. That specific practice is what is new, and potentially dangerous given new stressors on society.

[MD]

Before some nitwit jumps in and claims I am promoting censorship.....forget it. Go away and blast away to your hearts content, that freedom is worth fighting and dying for.

[NEOPO]

Yeah like my suggesting that racists shouldnt be allowed to spew their hate on this board....they call that "whining" and me a "whiner"

Why worry about it at all if nothing will save us?

Yep just more conflicting bullshit.
Almost everyone agrees that conflict is inevitable so why attempt to decrease the levels of conflict here?
Its just the other side of the coin(s) that we seem so fond of.
I thought opposing opinions was the meat and potatoes of a good debate?

I say fuck you, fuck your god and fuck your desire to continue on this unsustainable path and your ability to apathetically "take" whatever TPTB feed you

Feeding conflict....... ahahahah stop being a GOOD LIL capitolist and you will stop feeding conflict.
Stop being a good little consumer and you will stop feeding conflict.

No no let us use "kind" words and thereby "gently" inform the world that it is Doomed!!!!

I see value in fighting fire with fire and just because you see no value in it does that mean there is no value or that you are simply without vision?

I dont believe that Centuries of mind control can be undone with soft, gentle and kind words...............

[gg3]

MD, you have an excellent point.

And while I doubt that flame-trolls could ignite wars per se, they could certainly fan the flames of an ugly sort of tribalism that has been growing by leaps and bounds in recent years.

NEOPO, there is nothing more PC than the notion that self-expression is more important than civility. Remember it was the hippies and lefties who started that one. Now it's somehow become mainstream, the idea that it's OK to puke one's emotions, the more primal and primitive the better, all over any available public forum. Honest conservatives, as well as honest liberals, believe in putting civility first.

For years we've had to endure the likes of Rush Limbaugh on the right, and Mike Malloy (if I recall the name correctly) on the left, spewing vituperative bilge on the radio to the point where you practically have to keep a roll of toilet paper next to the radio to wipe it up before it drips on the furniture. Worst of all, the limbic-system spew circumvents the cerebral cortex, substituting sapient dialogue with simian howls. It is as if we have been evolving in reverse, devolving, back to something pre-human.

For years we have also seen a degree of hyper-partisanship in politics that boils down to making excuses for the bad behaviors of one's own party. When the Republicans had a one-party state they became intoxicated with the hubris of unchallenged power, to the point where corruption ran rampant from simple payoffs to concealment of a pedophile. We can see in retrospect exactly how the Soviet Union spiraled down into a cesspool of corruption: same thing, the dynamics of the one-party state.

Now we have the oldschool honest conservative dream-come-true of divided government: one party controls the White House, the other controls the House of Representatives, and the Senate is effectively split precisely down the middle. What this means is neither side will be able to get away with hubricious abuses of power: they will have to learn to get along and work together. This might just bring back the traditional sense of collegiality and deliberation. And it will certainly slow the metastases of "earmarks" and suchlike pork, as well as put the brakes on rash decisions and cronyism and so on.

As for war & peace & resources:

"I Want" is not a moral imperative, and treating it as such is simply immature and spoiled behavior. Part of growing up is learning to share, and part of being a responsible citizen is learning to make personal sacrifices for the common good. All of this is nothing new, in fact it's old: traditional morality, once again going back to before the Me Generation swept aside civility in favor of self-gratification.

I'll choose civility over emotional spew, and try to correct myself when I see myself doing the latter.

I'll choose the cerebral cortex over the limbic system.

[NEOPO]

ci‧vil‧i‧ty  /sɪˈvɪlɪti/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[si-vil-i-tee] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation

–noun, plural -ties.
1. courtesy; politeness.
2. a polite action or expression: an exchange of civilities.
3. Archaic. civilization; culture; good breeding.

"good breeding" heheh I enjoyed that one

Many here promote the idea that a war for resources is a good thing yet I do not perceive this as a polite action or expression

Promote such as a "need" or "inevitability" ok fine but as a "good" thing - nope - end civility........

Sorry if I fail to be polite when attempting to ridicule that position.

Many here suggest massive die off is the only solution to the current range of problems we are having and that through war and famine this objective can be and is being met which is another "good" thing....
Sorry if I fail to be polite when I attempt to contradict this stance.

It all may begin civil enough yet seems to quickly degrade with or without our help i.e. every conflict mankind has endured......

There is a war/conflict on going not only in Iraq and Afghanistan ....This conflict is being fought for control of our minds.
Perhaps you are more referring to grace under fire rather then civility?

IF civility means civilization/good breeding and all that has gotten us then I say it is bad and should be discontinued immediately!
"Whats so civil about war anyways? it feeds the rich while it buries the power ooo war"

I agree to cease fire at your judeo-pagan christmas and we can then share cans of peaches and play cards but after that IT'S ON BITCHES!!

[Ludi]

I've never met a single person in real life who was as hateful as people I've met on internet messageboards. I take great comfort in this fact.

[MD]

I've never met a single person in real life who was as hateful as people I've met on internet messageboards. I take great comfort in this fact.

Agreed.

My concern is in having what occurs in this seemingly safe environment of anonimity spill into real life.

No, It's more than concern. I fully expect it to happen.

[Zardoz]

I've never met a single person in real life who was as hateful as people I've met on internet messageboards...

In person they're as polite and docile as anyone else. They know what would happen to them if they behaved in real life as they do on these remote, safe, anonymous boards.

[Revi]

I agree with you MD. There are a lot of people who just love to fight all the time. They should be avoided. Unfortunately I think that they take the stage at times of crisis. I think that a lot of people won't cooperate at all, even though it may help their own survival odds. We don't work well together in our country. We've been brought up with the idea of competition for so long. The system wants us fighting for jobs, housing, healthcare and soon for food. It could get nasty. I don't intend to live like them.

[MD]

I agree with you MD. There are a lot of people who just love to fight all the time. They should be avoided. Unfortunately I think that they take the stage at times of crisis. I think that a lot of people won't cooperate at all, even though it may help their own survival odds. We don't work well together in our country. We've been brought up with the idea of competition for so long. The system wants us fighting for jobs, housing, healthcare and soon for food. It could get nasty. I don't intend to live like them.

Don't forget the whole sports entertainment complex that delivers a nice release of aggression for testosterone charged males.

What would all those youngsters do without the opportunity to kick the shit out each other in controlled fashion?

[AdamB]

The specter of water wars has long loomed large in political and popular imaginations. With the end of the Cold War, fresh concerns emerged that future wars would be fought not over ideology but over natural resources. The alliteratively appealing phrase of “water wars” began rolling off the tongue as United Nations leaders and politicians made bold claims about the inevitable carnage that resource scarcity would bring. Climate change heightens these concerns as the gap widens between what science tells us is necessary and what politics tells us is feasible. Climate change poses multiple risks with the potential to trigger tensions within and across nation-states. In some places flooding and the rise of sea levels will threaten homes and essential infrastructure; shrinking access to water for irrigation and consumption will undermine rural livelihoods, especially in semi-arid areas; and warming, drought, flooding,

Climate Conflicts: Myth or Reality?