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pstarr wrote:

Newfie wrote:And none of this address' the guns in that 20-29 yo black male group. i can't see the point of running them through a hunter safety education class, although I too have attended multiple times. These guys are not hunting rabbits.

None of these serial killing maniacs have been black.

Newfie wrote:The problems with that group are manifold. Lack of education, skills, male role models, job opportunities, bias' against them, etc. They are not dumb, they do what they do because it makes sense in their situation. To change those gun death statistics you need to change their situation. And that idea is going nowhere fast.

Americans of all stripes are going to learn to stop flaunting it. Otherwise they'd better learn to live as targets. Those cowboys and cowgirls with their high heels and big hats and makeup better tone their ride down. There is a entire demographic of folks out there (losers if you wish) who are getting sick and tired of having American Exceptionalism rammed down their throats. Call it envy. Sick but real.

It's not the black community either. They learned to live as losers a long time ago. It's the marginalized white who do this.

What, you never heard of the DC Sniper? Two guys driving around with a sniper nest in the car trunk taking out random victims?

There's been a law on the books since the Reagan era outlawing the sale of machine guns.

So how it is possible that people can get "bump stocks" and triggers wheels to turn their guns into effective machine guns? What politician could possibly have been so dumb as to have his administration approve a device to allow people to turn their guns into machine guns, when previously it had been against the law.

Who else?


My administration hereby approves devices to turn semi-automatic rifles into machine guns......whooaaa what did I just do?

In 2010 the Obama administration approved the sale of bump stocks and other devices that effectively turn AR-15s into machine guns, bypassing the Reagan era law that had banned machine guns.

bump-stock-device-received-green-light-during-obama-administration

SHEEESH!!

You don't need a bump fire device to do bump fire. Are they going to ban thumbs and fingers?

Bump fire without device.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2YLgLj8KVY

Or if you want something more effective, a rubber band. LOL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVfwFP_RwTQ

The sheriff's news conference last night had some interesting gems.

1) The shooter did have an escape plan and intended to survive this mass shooting
2) He bought something like 34 guns after October 2016. The Sherriff hinted October was significant to the shooter. As I recall there was a debate between Clinton and Trump in Vegas in October 2016.
3) There may be accomplices that assisted him in acquiring the weapons
4) The shooter planned this event far in advance.

I am puzzled as to why he brought so many guns to his room if he intended to escape unless perhaps there was supposed to be more shooters who never showed up and he went ahead with his plan alone. I'm still of the opinion that this shooting was politically motivated in the same way the Alexandria shooter was motivated.

Cog,
There is danger in assessing to much logic to a nut case. He doesn't think like us, that's why we call him sick. Ultimately it may be unknowable.

Shaved Monkey wrote:Pretty sure disarming the criminals would be the first move as to being over run when unarmed how does this happen ?
Do they come by boat or air carrying guns?
Pretty sure no one is saying disarm the military

Meanwhile the Vegas shooting has made some Australians want to have a second gun amnesty and lock illegal gun runners up for life

".....law enforcement experts had estimated up to 600,000 illegal guns remain on Australian streets, and that "this is just far too many".

"Australians are rightfully proud of our gun laws, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't do more," he said.

"We need to let well-meaning Australians hand in any guns, especially high-powered, military style weapons, that they shouldn't have."


http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politi ... yu60s.html

Shaved,

That might work in Oz but it seems beyond any reason in the USA. Hell, we can't keep drugs out of our prisons, our doctors routinely prescribe addictive narcotics. How are we going to remove guns?

Like I said above. We are no longer a land that respects the law.

Newfie wrote:Cog,
There is danger in assessing to much logic to a nut case. He doesn't think like us, that's why we call him sick. Ultimately it may be unknowable.

I'm not sure I would use the word sick. Were the 911 hijackers sick? He formed a plan and executed it. The plan might have been flawed but in his mind there was a certain logic to it. Now shooting up a bunch of people at a country and western concert or crashing a plane into a building is not something most people whom we call normal would do. But these types have a certain logic that motivates them. I think the target itself will reveal the motive and logic the guy was using when he picked it.

The National Public Radio reporter covering things in Las Vegas is claiming the Las Vegas attacker is a "typical anti-government" terrorist in the mold of Timothy McVeigh, because he had ammonium nitrate in his car and he lived in Mesquite NV, which NPR considers to be a "hotbed" of anti-government sentiment.


Mesquite NV is a hotbed of anti-government activity? NPR investigative reporting says so.

The guy was a drunk, womanizer, and gambler. That doesn't fit in with any practicing Mormons I know. This won't be a religious motive.

I'm a gun guy if not a gun nut. My son is a corrections officer. Neither of us had heard of "bump stocks" or cranks, etc before this unfortunate event.

For me guns are something to hunt with. I see no useful purpose for an AR, AK, or most handguns beyond killing people. As a kid gun ownership was all about hunting and marksmanship and responsibility. I think those three words are pretty much extinct in today's gun world.

Cog wrote:The guy was a drunk, womanizer, and gambler. That doesn't fit in with any practicing Mormons I know. This won't be a religious motive.

At least one religious group IS claiming he had a religious motivation. ISIS just released a THIRD claim the Las Vegas shooter was a convert to Islam and the attack was a jihad operation. We know ISIS had identified Las Vegas as a prime target attack....could this have been an ISIS terror attack as the ISIS statements claim?


Monday, 12 Muharram 1439H

A soldier from the soldiers of the Caliphate targeted a large gathering of 22,000 Americans at a concert in the city of Las Vegas, including nearly 600 killed and wounded

The executor of the operation, Abu Abdul Barr al-Amriki [al-Amriki = “The American”], 64-years old, converted to Islam 6 months ago

Method of Execution

The brother Abu Abdul Barr stationed himself for the invasion on the 32nd floor of a hotel overlooking a concert, and opened fire continuously on the crowds using 23 guns and more than 2000 rounds, and died, may Allah accept him, after exhausting his ammunition

Results of the Operation

59 killed

527 wounded

Panic and confusion of security in America and a number of European countries

People who follow this sort of thing say ISIS doesn't usually claim responsibility for attacks unless there is some legitimacy to their claim.


Its certainly possible ISIS had nothing to do with this.....but at this stage it might be too early to rule out that they did (even though the FBI released a statement ruling it out just after they started investigating the attack). The MSM isn't reporting on it, but Zerohedge has an article up right now about the new ISIS statement.


Was it an Islamic terror attack?

Plantagenet wrote:I don't think it would do too much violence to the second amendment if devices that turn guns into what are basically machine guns were outlawed.

We already have a law that outlaws machine guns. Reagan signed that one into law. These devices that turn some long guns into machine guns already break the spirit of that law.

IMHO at the least we need a new law to ban the trigger wheels and "bump" devices that turn some long guns into machine guns.

Cheers!

So, do the 2nd amendment rights people on this site have any problem with trying to ban any and all accouterments that make guns super lethal weapons like the ones used in warfare? Or any guns that in fact can be described as mass killing guns ie. automatic weapons or machine guns. I am among those who see absolutely NO reason that such weapons should be allowed to be sold or circulated.

The ATF correctly interpreted the rules on what constitutes automatic versus semi-automatic fire. Even a bump device requires a finger pull for each shot fired. What bump devices do in a practical way is use the recoil of the gun to push against a finger that is held stationary. You don't need a piece of plastic to do this. You can use a rubber band and if you work at it a bit, you don't even need that .

Unless Congress changes the law as written, a further review by the ATF with come to the exact same conclusion. Bump fire devices do not make a semi-automatic rifle an automatic one according to the definition. Automatic fire=Hold down trigger, many bullets fired. Semi-Automatic=each round fired require a pull of the trigger

Yes Plant I have big objection because any bans lead to other bans until we have no guns at all. Just ask the folks in Connecticut, New York, and Maryland where this goes. I don't care if you see a reason to own one. I don't have to justify my rights to you or anyone else. The government, according to the Second Amendment, can not infringe on my right to bear arms.

The PBS news hour updated the LV story today. He had several AR-15 variants plus other weapons. The AR's were fitted with bump stocks. Lots and lots of preloaded high capacity magazines.

IMHO a bump stock serves no practical purpose other than random slaughter. The rifle sights bounce around with the bump stock in use, all you can do is to point the rifle in the general direction of a crowd and count on the density of the crowd to ensure hits. He was also firing at a long range for an AR-15 type weapon to achieve accuracy, again the crowd density hepled to kill more people.

I personally don't mind if they ban bump stocks. As for trigger cranks, no hope of stopping those, they are easily constructed in an afternoon following a visit to a hardware store, and plans are already all over the internet.

Are you going to mind when they ban all semi-automatic rifles and ban all magazines over ten rounds? Not one inch more. No infringement means exactly what it says.