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I just came back from my first chiro visit. I have always been sceptical but now that i have been, i can safely say it is a scam.

Well the first visit was her asking me to walk foot in front of foot in a straight line. Then she had me lie down while she pressed into certain parts of body asking me if it hurt. Then it was off to the xray room, where i waited for 15 minutes while she saw another patient because they book them in 15 minute intervals. Then it was off to the front desk and $250 later.

I'm interested in peoples opinions on this as i thought getting my back in order would be a really positive step for collapse but I think i would have rather spent the money on preps.

I can't say for sure because I'm not a chiropractor.

The pressing various parts, at least in medicine, might be used to diagnose fibromyalgia, a disorder whose existence is still debated. Medical doctors usually treat this entity with muscle relaxants and antidepressants.

Regarding the x-rays, many people have abnormalities on thoracolumbar or cervical imaging. However, it's really dependent on the complaint. One might have a perfectly clean x-ray and yet have back pain due to muscle spasms which might only be visible on x-ray due to loss of normal curvature, while another patient might have a terrible back x-ray and regularly lift over 100 pounds without problems. It seems like x-rays should show something, but for the latter patient a medical doctor would do nothing, and this is the general recommendation.

I myself have abnormalities on radiologic examination of my cervical spine without symptomology. Nothing, therefore, should be done. Most people by middle age have some abnormalities.

A doctor would probably do something if an MRI shows spinal cord impingement, etc. However, an MRI costs much more than $250, and you won't get one from your chiropractor.

One chiropractioner that I visited in the past said that people started to get well again when they were tired of paying the fees and started to do the exercises at home. His practice specialised in sport injuries and also has a lot of physiotherapy.

For me, it did help sort out some problem that I was having with my knee, but one lasting benefit was learning some techniques to deal with situations when I get my muscles all tied up in knots (too much at the computer and not enough exercise). [By the way it is 6 or so years since I last visited and the knee is still OK ]

Rather than walking on a line I had to walk on the spot (lifing legs high) - just by looking he was able to put his finger directly on the sore part of the back, without having to feel around, so it seemed like he knew what he was doing.

I realise that some extreme cases are made for chiropractice, and while I do not go along with that, I have found that it was of value to me for dealing with back and knee problems.

To be totally honest, I should also say that my wife did not find him at all helpful, but that could be because she does not like to be touched, and at the time he was going through a divorce so in some ways that seemed to reflect on how he related to women. She also did not find regualar physio-therapy of lasting benefit (although she did not have a negative emotional reation to the therapist)- only really getting better when she will exercise at home rather than wanting a 'professional' to sort her out without her involvement.

I have an HMO that doesn't do Chiropracters -- but I went once paid for by auto insurance and that did fix my neck somehow after double whiplash from a multi-car accident. Fix it from hurting that is.

10 years laters, I was just diagnosed with neck arthritis.

So, now I'm going to physical therapy instead. They have a little device that I thought was a joke, but it really takes the pain away. Forgot what it was called. Some kind of waves transmitted through a transducer.

I've been doing the daily excercises suggested and range of motion is going through the roof. From like nothing to pretty much normal.

No way no how would I ever let a chiropractor touch me.

I knew it was a scam about the 3rd time I heard a "patient" tell me that they were going weekly.

I ask - "when are you done?"

They - "don't know."

No thanks on the never-ending treatment.

OTOH I wouldn't go near an MD with a knife unless I was crying in pain daily and had no other option.

I have greatly benefitted from chiropractic treatment on several occasions over the last 22 years.

Much like anything in life, it depends on who you go to for treatment. First guy I went to wasn't worth a damn, but I've found one who combines chiropractic with holistic medicine and she does a hell of a job for me.

The very idea that you can move the position of your bones (thus "adjustment") through external manipulation is pure snake oil.

Feels pretty good...

Medical treatment?

Please.


Can you say placebo?

I knew you could.

I don't know. I had some limited treatment after an auto accident years ago. Some of the machines they have are pretty far out.. this contraption they put me in had these robotic arms that would creep up into all kinds of obscure spots to provide "therapeutic pressure." Needless to say, I didn't care for that machine. It was like something out of the Terminator movies, lol.

Let's see.. then there is that ultrasound therapy. And then massage, and of course the actual "adjustments" with the chiropractor.

I don't think any of it did anything for me. The neck cracking is a strange experience.. sort of fun, but also freaky.

So I'll never be going back to a chiro. Have nothing against them per se, I'll just stick with more conventional medical treatment. Just give me some prednisone and loritab and call it a day.

They have a little device that I thought was a joke, but it really takes the pain away. Forgot what it was called.

Tems Unit... electrical stimulation of muscles.

At $1000 an hour i can see the best spinal specialist in the country.

I really am pissed at myself for falling for it. Their not even recognised by any medical association in the western world.

I think i've found my dream "profession". It's not like they take the best of best into the colleges.

Um, yes. It's a scam, rapidly followed by certain species of "nutritionists" and homeopaths. Neither get cure rates above placebo or doing nothing.

Which isn't to say all "alternative" medicines are a scam. Both traditional Chinese medicine and Indian ayurvedic medicine have an extensive pharmacy of herbal treatments (see Pubmed.com) and other interventions. After a couple of millennia of testing, they tend to work, even if it's not for the reasons the practitioners assume.

If you have back problems, exercise is the best remedy, in my opinion. Swimming 30 mins a day or walking 45 minutes a day will do wonders.

I've been going to chiropractors all my life... or most of it. and there are big differences in them. I've had a couple bad car accidents and was sent to physio which did nothing for me. in 1992 for instance I got whiplash from a car that ran a red light and slammed into my passenger side door going 50. the car was totaled and I couldn't move my neck more than one inch to either side. after 3 weeks of physio I was no better off, but since I didn't have a chiro at the time I didn't go to him.

then my boss (a multi-millionaire) told me to go to his. and I did. I walked out with a couple tears in my eyes (the xrays and initial exam were taken the week previously) and it hurt and I rested that night, but I had almost full mobility back again.

then once I was in a tactical team excercise and a big guy fell on a big guy, who fell on me and I fell on someone else. Man, that screwed up my sacro. nothing worked till I went to my chiro who gave me two excercises because a major nerve that runs from the hip down the leg (can't remember the name at the moment) would start sending piercing shooting pains down the middle of my leg. after I did the excercie for two weeks (every time it hurt and I thought to) I was fixed. and yet, I don't know how often I hear of people who put up with that same injury suffering for years.

I also went to one that put me on this weird machine and wanted to rub warm oil on me.... yuh! sure! so It pays to shop around. You should see a noticiable difference, but it should not hurt. I swear by them. I'd be a complete mess if it weren't for them.

Clearly when you injure your spine, the muscles do spasm and pull the joints out of line. I've had an awful lot of patients that tell me they get significant relief from manipulation, and it makes sense to me that the joint gets out of line and you pop it back in and it feels better. My problem with chiropractors is that, IMHO, they generally over manipulate. If I've got an injured joint that needs to be realigned once or twice great. If we're going to spend the next twenty years popping it back in once a week and then letting it pop right back out, then that's a problem. If I'm going to refer a patient for manipulation, I'm much more likely to refer them to a DO. DO's are trained in manipulation, but they tend to realign joints once or a couple of times along with anti-inflammatories to reduce inflammation in the joint, muscle relaxers to reduce the muscle spasm, and physical therapy to teach the patient exercises to strengthen the joint where it doesn't keep popping in and out.

IMHO, anyone that tells me I'm going to need any medical treatment once a week from now on has decided that I'm an ATM machine rather than a patient. As for chiropractors that want to fix your gallbladder by manipulating your back, I think that is just straight up hokus-pokus.

What's a DO?

The real reason I have to go to the chiro as much as I do is because I am really hard on my body. Always have been. I see no point in sitting around going moldy. I would far rather die falling off a mountain, concussed by a rock river rafting or drown.

uNkNowN ElEmEnt wrote:What's a DO?

The real reason I have to go to the chiro as much as I do is because I am really hard on my body. Always have been. I see no point in sitting around going moldy. I would far rather die falling off a mountain, concussed by a rock river rafting or drown.

DO = Doctor of Osteopathic medicine. Basically, it's a politically correct way of saying "you were too dumb to get into a traditional medical school, but smarter than the pharmacy school students." After their medical school (which is almost always private and more expensive than MD training), their training, residency, and credentials are virtually the same as MDs; in other words, they are both physicians. If you ever look at a doctor's post-surname "letters", you'll see some that look like:

Doogie Howser, DO instead of Doogie Howser, MD

Supposedly they have more "whole body" training, but my initial stance holds--the DO degree was created for those students who couldn't get accepted into medical school. Something like 7-10% of practicing physicians are DOs vs the 90%+ that are MDs.

like_the_dinosaurs wrote:I just came back from my first chiro visit. I have always been sceptical but now that i have been, i can safely say it is a scam.

Well the first visit was her asking me to walk foot in front of foot in a straight line. Then she had me lie down while she pressed into certain parts of body asking me if it hurt. Then it was off to the xray room, where i waited for 15 minutes while she saw another patient because they book them in 15 minute intervals. Then it was off to the front desk and $250 later.

I'm interested in peoples opinions on this as i thought getting my back in order would be a really positive step for collapse but I think i would have rather spent the money on preps.

A lot of issues with Chriros arise from unrealistic expectations, and misunderstandings of what Chiros offer.

Chiros re-align bones that become slightly out of place due to our daily abuses - While this DOES remove pain, and contribute to quality of life, it may not be sufficient if there's an underlying issue, such as muscle weakness, forcing the bones into a bad position. In such a case, the realignments won't hold, and the patient soon lapses into their bad position.

Unfortunately, a lot of Chiros have an overblown understanding of their own contribution, and claim to be able to cure anything.

To my mind, the combination of Chiro, Massage, and Physio make a great combination, and complement each other. I have a chronically dislocated rib, that I'm trying to get on top of. When it goes out, my physio can't put it back in... But my Chiro can. OTOH, my Chiro doesn't do anything to strengthen the muscles around the rib, to prevent future injury.... My physio does.

I also notice that Chiros tend to be more holistically minded, and some can be downright airy-fairy... A lot of people may not see the benefit in this, may not be able to look past it to the benefits of the treatment.

I've experienced much relief from chiropractic care but you have to shop around for true healers-as you should with any discipline. I am not into the practitioners who are all about the gadgets and machines. I want hands on manipulation.
Last winter I lifted too much and was in pain for over a month. I was not satisfied with the Chiropractor I had previously seen a few times for another strain issue (he was timid about adjusting) so I kept putting it off until I couldn't stand it any more.
Fortunately, I found a wonderful (chiropractic) woman who was not afraid to adjust me, saw the problem instantly and yeah, that night I was sore but was pain free within two days of that visit and remain so ever since which was six months ago.
At my request, I see her every six weeks for maintenance (my job is very physical).
I work with a woman who has chronic pain in her shoulder that sometimes causes her headaches. It is interfering with her occupation as chef. She went to a MD who recommended pain pills. When she refused he suggested she try physical therapy. Three months later of PT she is still in pain. She refuses to go to a chiropractor and is going back to the MD for a doctor's note so we can accept her restricted abilities. And she is still in daily pain.
Going on too long here. The naysayers have dismissed me already and to the rest, I'm preaching to the choir.
MD's are great for diagnosis, but for cure I go elsewhere, or look within.
Testify!
cynthia

Prince wrote:Supposedly they have more "whole body" training, but my initial stance holds--the DO degree was created for those students who couldn't get accepted into medical school.

That's a pretty cynical perspective and historically inaccurate. I've known and worked with some very fine DO's. I definitely don't think it's "med school light". Historically there were several basic schools of medical thinking: allopathic, homeopathic, osteopathic, naturopathic. Back in the mid 1800's the allopathic school formed the AMA and through a good amount of fairly underhanded lobbying, won recognition as "medical doctors" and won preferential legal treatment over the other schools. Medicine has improved dramatically at that time, but at that time going to an allopath was generally far more dangerous than whatever you were ill with. The basic philosophy of allopathy was to make you so sick that whatever disease you had would give up and leave in search of a better host. Thus purgatives, blood letting, etc.

DO's can go into allopathic residencies, or they can do DO residencies. Basically DO's and MD's have fairly similar practice except that some DO's do joint manipulation. DO's I believe are also generally regulated by the state board of osteopathy rather than the state board of medicine.