[Ibon]

For me the systemic problems in the USA make me a serious believer in breaking up the USA into smaller independent entities, countries or an allied federation of separate regions. I sometimes see the tribal civil war like polarity as the same as the rapid metamorphosis that happens with cell mitosis when a cell is ready to split into two.

Please, Ibon, my comment stands. The US is a huge country so playing the comparison game with 3.5MIl to 330MIL is a wee bit unintelligent. Ibon, the systematic problems you speak of are not particular only to the US and if you think they are then you are as bad as JuanP. You guys have a burr up your ass so everything is anti-American.

tisk tisk,tisk, being defensive will not allow you to confront the problems in the USA. I love the USA, land of my birth. Its wilderness is superlative, its people in pockets throughout the hollows and ridges and swamps and forests still humming to natures rhythms.

That most have forsaken this is not a reason for sadness or anger or disdain, more room for those who do not fall into the herd.

I know America as few do having hitchhiked its highways and back roads for years in my feral youth. When you remember this America all the chatter and noise and grievances are like angry sea gulls at the land fill.

Are you a Laughing Gull or a Herring Gull Realgreen?

You seem to fall so easy to the bait of grievance.

Too much time on the internet, not enough time in the Ozarks I guess.

[vtsnowedin]

Apparently you haven't visited a doctor recently.

Actually I had a full physical this morning. Other then all the staff and myself wearing masks it was no different then the last one I had before Covid.
What worries me about you is all those things you" know for sure" that just ante so.

[diemos]

New case rates, as presented by https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/, if plotted are giving a 5th degree polynomial. No earthly originating virus in history has ever grown according to such a function.

Math just isn't your thing, is it?

When you change from business as usual to lockdown back to business as usual the functions change.

[JuanP]

So, in Miami people are supposed to wear masks in yoga studios and gyms while exercising, so the two yoga studios where my wife and I go to practice will remain closed and teach only virtual and private classes. We are lucky that we have the keys for both and we can go to practice whenever we want on our own.

We went to our favorite restaurant for dinner tonight, the last night that they will serve indoors in god knows how long. The owner told me that he will most likely close down until September because deliveries, takeout, and outdoor dining is not enough to make it worth to stay open. He will make the decision in a week or two, after he uses up all the food in his cooler. If he closes he will save money in gas and electricity, and he can take a vacation.

[suxs]

Covid19 has been managed horrendously poor but it also has revealed the underlying systemic inequities and poor social services that have aggravated the impacts of this mild pandemic.

Normally, during times of crisis, the president galvanizes the citizenry into a unified front. In that Trump views the pandemic through the lens of power and politics, leadership from the commander and chief is non-existent. Consequently, the USA is comprised of 50 states addressing the issue independently, although notable exceptions exist as in the NorthEast where the governors act in unison.

[REAL Green]

Covid19 has been managed horrendously poor but it also has revealed the underlying systemic inequities and poor social services that have aggravated the impacts of this mild pandemic.

Normally, during times of crisis, the president galvanizes the citizenry into a unified front. In that Trump views the pandemic through the lens of power and politics, leadership from the commander and chief is non-existent. Consequently, the USA is comprised of 50 states addressing the issue independently, although notable exceptions exist as in the NorthEast where the governors act in unison.

“After Sending 1000s Of COVID Patients Into Nursing Homes, New York Blames Deaths On "Infected Staff"
https://justthenews.com/politics-policy ... mes-deaths

“New York officials issue a report this week concluding that the high number of coronavirus deaths in state care facilities was the result of infected workers, not sick residents, spreading the contagion…New York has face sharp criticism over the past several months for its policy of allowing COVID-19-positive patients to return to nursing homes before they were declared free of the virus. Democratic Gov. Andrew Cuomo said the state policy of allowing residents to return to elderly-care facilities was in line with guidance from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. However, PolitiFact in May rated that claim "mostly false," pointing out the state appeared to pressure nursing homes to take COVID-19 patients regardless of whether they could properly house them”

[Newfie]

RealGreen,

One senior facility manager released the emails directing him to take patients back over his very strong objections. He pointed out that they were not giving him time to set up containment spaces while there were empty beds at the Javits center and on the hospital ship.

If you were to remove NY and NJ from the overall USA count the death rate would be much less, something like 48,000 from 133,000. Our death rate would then be roughly 270/M.

Bottom line, the USA, excluding NYC and vicinity, isn’t doing so bad compared to Europe. NY City and the vicinity is doing horribly.

The irony is NY, NJ, CN are putting travel bans on others. It should be the other way around.

[REAL Green]

The irony is NY, NJ, CN are putting travel bans on others. It should be the other way around.

Yea, Newf, the exodus has begun. You make a good point about the travel bans:

“Real Estate Expert Warns 'Exodus' From Cities Will Last Two Years”
https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/real- ... -two-years

“The virus pandemic and socio-economic shockwave across the US (read ad hoc protests and riots), and more specifically in top metro areas, has created much uncertainty for city dwellers who are now fleeing for suburbs. Over the past several months, we have documented city dwellers leaving big cities for suburbs, small towns and communities to isolate from the virus and socio-economic tensions unfolding in many metros. While the exodus from cities is still in the early stages, it's now believed by at least one expert, that city dwellers could continue to flee US metros for the next 18-24 months.”

[suxs]

Real Green,

It's funny how you accuse the poster Ibon of a lack of intelligence for siding with JuanP and for having a burr up his ass due to anti-Americanism, yet you project the exact same "qualities" regarding any criticism of Trump.

I don't understand your complaint as poster Ibon appears to espouse a middle of the road approach to politics.

Here's some news to buoy your spirits:

This election is looking more like a Democratic tsunami than simply a Blue wave. President Trump, mired in some of the lowest job approval ratings of his presidency, is trailing Biden by significant margins in key battleground states like Pennsylvania (8 points), Michigan (9 points), and Wisconsin (9 points). He’s even running behind Biden in his firewall states of Florida and North Carolina. 8 July 2020, The Cook Political Report

[mousepad]

I don't understand your complaint as poster Ibon appears to espouse a middle of the road approach to politics.

No he's not. He's hard core liberal left.

[Outcast_Searcher]

The irony is NY, NJ, CN are putting travel bans on others. It should be the other way around.

Complete nonsense.

The odds of new cases is highly related to the incidence of recent cases. NOT deaths months ago. In places like NY and NJ, the current infection rates are MUCH MUCH better than what's going on in the current high break-out areas in the US. And not at all surprising, given the rules governing behavior / opening.

Are you now going to claim that China is in massive trouble currently since AT ONE TIME it had a high rate of deaths? That would make about as much sense as saying places like FL, TX, CA, and AZ should be quarantining against LOW current case level places like NJ, NY, and CN.

The math is the math. The virus is the virus. The virus doesn't care what kind of crazy political spin is put on how screwed up states like FL and TX are re their current state of outbreak in caseloads, hospital loads, etc.

[Outcast_Searcher]

I don't understand your complaint as poster Ibon appears to espouse a middle of the road approach to politics.

No he's not. He's hard core liberal left.

I don't understand either. Letting the virus mostly run and damn most of the consequences is more of a right wing approach.

As a moderate, I can tell you for sure, despite accusations from both sides over time being an "X" politically due to ONE issue position, that claiming one is "hard core X" is easy to say, but not necessarily logical at all.

[REAL Green]

yet you project the exact same "qualities" regarding any criticism of Trump.

You mistake extremist liberal criticism for Trump support. This is typical Trump derangement of the cancel culture. I am an original liberal not the wokster crap of today’s liberal. Your extremism is tearing apart the country in lies and I am exposing these lies in my own little way. I will not vote this year because the choices are so bad. If Biden wins this will be culmination of the worst political machine I have ever dreamed possible. Obama gate, Hillary sham, and The white collar rapist criminal with dementia Biden.

[Outcast_Searcher]

Apparently you haven't visited a doctor recently.

Actually I had a full physical this morning. Other then all the staff and myself wearing masks it was no different then the last one I had before Covid.
What worries me about you is all those things you" know for sure" that just ante so.

He's been acting like that on MANY issues for a LONG time around here. In fact, that's his M.O. over time.

But of course, being conspiracy theory minded in several areas, this makes him automatically an "expert" on various things in his own mind.

[suxs]

No he's not. He's hard core liberal left.

Your comment, mousepad, demonstrates how far the right is your thinking or, perhaps, unless I'm giving too much credit, this is a ploy to influence Ibon's thinking to the right.

Someone from the "hard-core liberal left" does not defend Trump when warranted, nor rail against the presumptive nominee of the resistance.

Comment noted.

[Plantagenet]

Letting the virus mostly run and damn most of the consequences is more of a right wing approach.

Why do you say that?

In the US it was the left wing states of New York and New Jersey who delayed ordering people to quarantine and didn't mandate masks or social separation and carelessly sent infected people into nursing homes and let infected homeless people poop and pee and basically live in the subways and then didn't even think of disinfecting their subways and buses and commuter trains until it was far far too late.....resulting in by far the highest death tolls and highest death rates in the US. They had so many dead people in New York they were stacking up the bodies in U-Haul trucks ..... and the trucks weren't even refrigerated.

decomposing-bodies-stored-in-u-haul-trucks-new-york-covid-19

And in the EU it is Sweden who is the only country taking the approach of letting the virus run........and Sweden is definitely not a "right wing" country.

If anything, letting the virus mostly run and damn most of the consequences has been mainly a left wing approach done in left wing places like New York, New Jersey and Sweden.

Cheers!

[diemos]

Why do you say that?

In the US it was the left wing states of New York and New Jersey who delayed ordering people to quarantine and didn't mandate masks or social separation and carelessly sent infected people into nursing homes and let infected homeless people poop and pee and basically live in the subways and then didn't even think of disinfecting their subways and buses and commuter trains until it was far far too late.....resulting in by far the highest death tolls and highest death rates in the US. They had so many dead people in New York they were stacking up the bodies in U-Haul trucks ..... and the trucks weren't even refrigerated.

Don't confuse incompetence for policy.

[Plantagenet]

Why do you say that?

In the US it was the left wing states of New York and New Jersey who delayed ordering people to quarantine and didn't mandate masks or social separation and carelessly sent infected people into nursing homes and let infected homeless people poop and pee and basically live in the subways and then didn't even think of disinfecting their subways and buses and commuter trains until it was far far too late.....resulting in by far the highest death tolls and highest death rates in the US. They had so many dead people in New York they were stacking up the bodies in U-Haul trucks ..... and the trucks weren't even refrigerated.

Don't confuse incompetence for policy.

The Swedes are not an incompetent people. Their government has consciously and publicly chosen not to shut down the Swedish economy. Their goal is "herd immunity." They have a higher death rate in Sweden than in some other EU countries, but there are also EU countries with higher death rates then Sweden. I don't think incompetence has anything to do with the Swedish approach to dealing with the Covid virus.

However, you may have a point when it comes to New York here in the US.

In New York and New Jersey Cuomo and DeBlasio and the rest of the left wing government officials presiding over things there never gave the order for people to wear masks or to shut down businesses or to disinfect subways and buses until it was far too late. Then...after they gave those orders they refused to take steps to enforce their own orders. That certainly was incompetence, but IMHO laziness, ignorance, and just plain stupidity also played a role in the failure there.

CHEERS!

[suxs]

Plant-

Where was all of your sage advice when it mattered? You can play Monday morning quarterback and criticize from the comfort of 20/20 hindsight all you want but NY had to deal with what they had at the time. It's always so easy to second-guess decisions after the event is finished.

What's the excuse now being used for the "right-wing" states of Texas, Florida, Alaska. Oklahoma, Arizona, Alabama, Arkansas that should have known better?

According to the CDC, New York - the epicenter of the US outbreak - has a 0.9 effective reproduction rate, which is one of the lowest across the country.

All seven states that currently have no stay-at-home orders - Arkansas, Iowa, Nebraska, North Dakota, South Dakota, Utah, Wyoming - are among the states with the highest rates of secondary infections.

[REAL Green]

Plant- Where was all of your sage advice when it mattered? You can play Monday morning quarterback and criticize from the comfort of 20/20 hindsight all you want but NY had to deal with what they had at the time. It's always so easy to second-guess decisions after the event is finished.

More of what plant is talking about ,suxs. Maybe crow is on the menue?

“De Blasio Says BLM Protests Can Continue While Canceling All Other Large Events”
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/de- ... rge-events

"New York City's Mayor Bill de Blasio made some stunning remarks on CNN, declaring protests in the streets were perfectly acceptable while canceling other large events through September. De Blasio joined CNN's Wolf Blitzer on Thursday evening, discussing the evolving pandemic and policy response by City Hall to mitigate the spread in the city. He said social justice warriors were too important after months of protests have yet produced an outbreak in cases. "This is a historic moment of change. We have to respect that but also say to people the kinds of gatherings we're used to, the parades, the fairs — we just can't have that while we're focusing on health right now," de Blasio told Blitzer. Blitzer then asks: What about protests? De Blasio responds: "This is a historic moment. We have to respect that."