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vtsnowedin wrote:Do you have a source for that?
My experience is that a middle class mother works about half ofthe available work days from the birth of her first child until the youngest enters highschool. That envolves a lot of daycare.

The ave. income for most of the world is less than $10 daily.

Day care? Most are lucky if they can buy enough food and other necessities!

It would be helpful if you identified whether you are discussing the world average Middle Class family or one in the USA. There is a range of incomes considered Middle Class.

onlooker wrote:So pray if you care Cog, tell us in what or where you have your wealth?
Oh that"s right in the ultimate Ponzifaux source, the stock market. Enough said

Because that is where the real money in the world resides. Its not in your piggy bank or the coins in your couch or even in real estate. The real money of the world resides in the equity markets. You are either in or you are out. The market makers can make the market move up or down or sideways. I am not one of them but sometimes I'm lucky enough to figure out trends. As KJ says, this is real money we are talking about. Perhaps the most real money there is IMO.

ralfy wrote:

vtsnowedin wrote:Do you have a source for that?
My experience is that a middle class mother works about half ofthe available work days from the birth of her first child until the youngest enters highschool. That envolves a lot of daycare.

The ave. income for most of the world is less than $10 daily.

Day care? Most are lucky if they can buy enough food and other necessities!

Really Ralfy? When I'm talking about 57 chevy assembly lines being over taken by robots and day care you want to throw in statistics for Zimbabwe?

vtsnowedin wrote:

Newfie wrote:VT,
But you are not a true adherent to the religion. If you were your attitude would be different. You are looking for reason and shades of grey. Zealotry decries such nuances.

I try not to be religious about anything including peak oil. I do think Capitalism will always win out in the end as it uses human nature in a positive way. Communism on the other hand denies human nature and tries to reward laziness equally with earnest effort.

I tend to agree. It’s not always to our best advantage.

Cog wrote:

onlooker wrote:So pray if you care Cog, tell us in what or where you have your wealth?
Oh that"s right in the ultimate Ponzifaux source, the stock market. Enough said

Because that is where the real money in the world resides. Its not in your piggy bank or the coins in your couch or even in real estate. The real money of the world resides in the equity markets. You are either in or you are out. The market makers can make the market move up or down or sideways. I am not one of them but sometimes I'm lucky enough to figure out trends. As KJ says, this is real money we are talking about. Perhaps the most real money there is IMO.

I think the concept of “real money” is quite debatable. Market valuation, for most folks, is just what the malarkey reports, which is based upon the last sale. It’s decidedly NOT a valuation of the corporations assets.

Think of it like food. Some guy A, living in a town of 1,000 souls, has a million pounds of rice in his safe. Guy B decides he wants some rice so pays A 10 for a pound of rice. That does not mean A is worth 10 million dollars. If A wanted to liquidate his assets he would have to convience every person in town to take 1,000 pounds of rice.

The stock market is a lot like that.

Of course it’s more complicated, just trying to illustrate why so much of our wealth gap is really just “virtual wealth.” Perhaps the greatest example are bit coins.

You know, as well as I do,that your 401k, IRA, and even your pension is tied to the market. Its as real as it gets for you personally. The elites, who are universally despised, won't let their asset be destroyed in any meaningful way. Oh there will be market downturns, recessions and even depressions, but the market remains. Downturns are the way for the elites to gain even more shares. If you study them and what they do, you can go along for the ride.

You want to gamble fine. But surely some of you must know the stock market is a rigged game aND as always tended to inflate like a Ballon then pop. You play with fire you will get burnt

On the other hand, nothing ventured nothing gained. Nobody joins the 1% by hard work alone, if you aren't born into it, you are going to have to gamble, or forget about ever being wealthy. Whether flipping houses, playing markets or smuggling coke.

SeaGypsy wrote:On the other hand, nothing ventured nothing gained. Nobody joins the 1% by hard work alone, if you aren't born into it, you are going to have to gamble, or forget about ever being wealthy. Whether flipping houses, playing markets or smuggling coke.

I personally do not seek to be rich. But to each his own

Me neither, my focus is another kind of riches, a Bible quote comes to mind, one I shouldn't need to write.

SeaGypsy wrote:Me neither, my focus is another kind of riches, a Bible quote comes to mind, one I shouldn't need to write.

Is it something to the effect (For what does it profit a man to gain all the Kingdoms of the world yet lose his soul? ) I was bought up Catholic

Much more direct:

Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth
and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:
20: But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor
rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal.

. (Mathew 6.19 & 6.20)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_6:19–20

SeaGypsy wrote: Nobody joins the 1% by hard work alone,.

I personally know exceptions to that. Of course it was not just dumb effort but hard work intelligently applied where it would yield the highest returns.

While not needing to be very rich or a one percenter I think any thinking person will strive to gain enough wealth to be independent in his old age, wanting for nothing and beholden to no one or no government.

vtsnowedin wrote:While not needing to be very rich or a one percenter I think any thinking person will strive to gain enough wealth to be independent in his old age, wanting for nothing and beholden to no one or no government.

That is precisely what I have aimed for through work and investing. I'm pretty sure being in the 1% carries with it certain burdens to remain there. Is a twenty bedroom room mansion that much better than a paid for 3 bedroom house? Who is it I need to impress at this stage in life? To be comfortable is enough for me.

Yes the market is risky but risk can be mitigated somewhat by diversity in asset allocation. One of the beauties of capitalism is you can take as much or as little risk in life as you are comfortable in taking. That varies with the individual and what they consider the good life.

If folks have gotten financially comfortable by flipping houses, even at a very conservative pace, it's still gambling. There's never been such a thing as a 100% safe bet, getting out of bed is a calculated risk.

I always read these threads, because I keep hoping someone *will* come up with an economic system that works.

One view holds that the individual is responsible for determining how to earn a living and pursuing that. The glaring fault, to me, is that system in today's world gives us products that are incredibly wasteful of the limited resources of our planet. The 'successful' at this economic system then get to also have tremendous power to influence governments to set policy. Those not successful have a vote. Yay. Nice bone.

The other system addresses, on paper at least, a concept of dividing labor and distributing wealth. People could be told "no, we have no quota for inflatable penguins from China during this decade. We are going to focus on food and education". But then you get gulag's because people do not operate like a colony of bees and you have to do something with those that disagree.

What a hell the 23rd century will be, if we make it there, unless somehow we do come up with something that will work. The two directions discussed here clearly do not, long term with the stresses of population, environment challenges, and and the existence of the weapons arsenals out there.

Brian

SeaGypsy wrote:If folks have gotten financially comfortable by flipping houses, even at a very conservative pace, it's still gambling. There's never been such a thing as a 100% safe bet, getting out of bed is a calculated risk.

The same can be said about highway construction contracts. I was told many moon ago that as long as competitive bidding was used to award construction contracts that gambling would be legal in this state.

KrellEnergySource wrote:I always read these threads, because I keep hoping someone *will* come up with an economic system that works.

One view holds that the individual is responsible for determining how to earn a living and pursuing that. The glaring fault, to me, is that system in today's world gives us products that are incredibly wasteful of the limited resources of our planet. The 'successful' at this economic system then get to also have tremendous power to influence governments to set policy. Those not successful have a vote. Yay. Nice bone.

The other system addresses, on paper at least, a concept of dividing labor and distributing wealth. People could be told "no, we have no quota for inflatable penguins from China during this decade. We are going to focus on food and education". But then you get gulag's because people do not operate like a colony of bees and you have to do something with those that disagree.

What a hell the 23rd century will be, if we make it there, unless somehow we do come up with something that will work. The two directions discussed here clearly do not, long term with the stresses of population, environment challenges, and and the existence of the weapons arsenals out there.

Brian

Welcome Brian. You crammed a lot into that post. I'd be glad to discuss one thing at a time with you but I don't want to juggle five things at once.
But again welcome we need new people with new points of view.