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If it isn't obvious already US and China together are the world's new empire, the rest of the countries will just shrink in power until these two stand out. The rest of the world will look like Jamaica. When do you see this world coming into effect?

Its not obvious, you are simplifying the world far too much. For example the EU has a greater population and GDP than the US. China has huge internal hurdles to overcome in terms of things like inequality and potential nationalist movements. We all face challanges in terms of energy and the environment that we cannot fully predict. Who in the mid 80s was forecasting the huge rise in China or the fall of the USSR?

Quite possible, but - why should one care? If life gets better somewhere outside US/China why should one over there bother in regards to who have lately awarded themselves with the titles of the world's utmost superior uber empires.

Anyone else old enough to remember when the commie pinkos would hurl the insult "American Imperialists" and the Yanks would indignantly deny it?

Keith_McClary wrote:Anyone else old enough to remember when the commie pinkos would hurl the insult "American Imperialists" and the Yanks would indignantly deny it?

I am.

I kind of miss the commies; it was simpler then.

There is no advantage in combining what is already a very profitable and successful trading pair. So... there will never be a joint empire.

There is no US/CHINA empire, and there never will be such a thing

As the US empire declines China will establish an empire that supplants it----a process that is well underway

Oneaboveall wrote:

Keith_McClary wrote:Anyone else old enough to remember when the commie pinkos would hurl the insult "American Imperialists" and the Yanks would indignantly deny it?

I am.

I kind of miss the commies; it was simpler then.

The NeoCon Cornies are also simple. Will you miss them?

Keith_McClary wrote:The NeoCon Cornies are also simple. Will you miss them?

I mean as the "Big Bad Enemies of Freedom."

While this may have been someones plan just a few years ago the whole kerfuffle with the EU/USA/Ukraine managed to create the alternative plan, the Russia/China Co-prosperity Alliance. Russia supplies the raw materials, China produces the finished goods, and both sell to the world market while being mutually self sufficient. They win, everyone else takes a lower place in the rankings.

Plantagenet wrote:There is no US/CHINA empire, and there never will be such a thing

As the US empire declines China will establish an empire that supplants it----a process that is well underway

If that's the case, God help the Chinese. The costs of empire aren't worth it in the long run.

I think that China will annex the West Coast of the U.S.A. and the Northeast will become part of Europe (again) and the remainder of the U.S.A. will become prairie again. This is when oil depletion kicks in and holding together a huge continent becomes more difficult than it's worth.

I do suppose that we may be the first nation to build an undeclared empire and then find it a bankrupting proposition (like all before it) to attempt to regulate the world. Undeclared
wars and undeclared empires are perhaps a new twist, but the old meme of spreading out,
raking in the goods, and then trying to hold on while you bleed and rot out is still very much
in play. Perhaps the Chinese (they already tried the border wall thing) will pursue something
different and more sustainable than an empire.

As Eisenhower was on his way out he warned us of the Military Industrial Complex taking our
nation unwittingly toward an empire building stance that required wars to keep the system
working well. Ike tried to tell us but the money was too good to listen.

Interesting to see such a debate over which countries have been, are today and will be in the future "empires" since there's obviously little or no agreement over how an "empire" is defined. LOL. Especially in quantitative terms that can actually be compared instead of using anecdotal examples that essentially exist in the eye of the beholder.

But the real value of such relatively undefined threads is that it allows a mix of opinions on a variety of subjects to be aired. Which is one of the basic reasons this site exists.

ROCKMAN wrote:But the real value of such relatively undefined threads is that it allows a mix of opinions on a variety of subjects to be aired. Which is one of the basic reasons this site exists.

It sounds like you are making some kind of an excuse for the existence of this thread, ROCKMAN. Why do you think it needs justification? Could it be the very unnatural way this thread was brought back from the dead?

This thread, which never made any sense in the first place, was started in 2013 and it managed to get all of 7 replies. One person voted in the poll. The thread died a natural death soon after it started. It has rested in peace for more than 3 years. Now, suddenly, Tanada has restarted the thread for no particular reason, as if we couldn't think of anything to talk about by ourselves. I guess we are all supposed to talk about this subject now? I don't even know what it is. This all seems a little over managed.

If this thread is one of the basic reasons this site exists, why don't people just start a new one?

SumYunGai wrote:

ROCKMAN wrote:But the real value of such relatively undefined threads is that it allows a mix of opinions on a variety of subjects to be aired. Which is one of the basic reasons this site exists.

It sounds like you are making some kind of an excuse for the existence of this thread, ROCKMAN. Why do you think it needs justification? Could it be the very unnatural way this thread was brought back from the dead?

This thread, which never made any sense in the first place, was started in 2013 and it managed to get all of 7 replies. One person voted in the poll. The thread died a natural death soon after it started. It has rested in peace for more than 3 years. Now, suddenly, Tanada has restarted the thread for no particular reason. I guess we are all supposed to talk about this subject now? I don't even know what this is. This all seams a little over managed.

If this thread is one of the basic reasons this site exists, why don't people just start a new one?

Why do you feel compelled to post on a thread you say you have no interest in? The thread doesn't interest me much, but your compulsion to comment on it is interesting. Do you comment on other threads you don't care about just because someone else is talking about it? I am pesonally interested in a wide range of topics and at least glance through most threads, which is how I stumbled over your comment.

Do you really believe everyone on this website manipulates topics just to distract you from other more important topics? If not then why do you care what other people talk about?

Subjectivist wrote:Why do you feel compelled to post on a thread you say you have no interest in?

I am a naturally curious person. I notice things. In this case, I noticed that the entire thread is kind of weird so I just thought I would mention it. I explained why in my post. Do you feel some sort of tribal urge to defend the honor of this site?

Subjectivist wrote:Do you comment on other threads you don't care about just because someone else is talking about it?

No. But no one is actually talking about anything on this thread. We are being prompted to, though. Why? With all of the other exciting threads already active, this thread seems a little silly and unnecessary. Like adding noise to the signal.

Subjectivist wrote:Do you really believe everyone on this website manipulates topics just to distract you from other more important topics?

Of course not. It's just certain key people. And it is not done to distract me from other more important topics. It is done to distract more casual readers who are not as aware of the frame within which the dialog takes place. It all seems pretty obvious. Do you really believe this thread is a natural occurrence?

SYG - "This thread, which never made any sense in the first place...". So you feel a thread that "never made any sense" doesn't need any justification? So maybe you might want to edit your response a tad to avoid sounding ridiculous. LOL. And read my post closer and you might notice my critisim isn't about the subject of the thread.

Sub - Please stop putting words in my mouth. I actually find the subject very interesting. What I find very uninteresting is a variety of anecdotal OPINIONS which use few documented FACTS.

So let's put you to the test and we'll see how many here agree: define an "empire". And please do so in some quantitative non-emotion based sense. So what makes the US an empire...or not in your opinion? And what will or won't change that status? And while you're at it: So what makes China an empire...or not in your opinion? And what will or won't change that status? Such thoughts would interest me.

Interesting that what appears to be the longest post you and SYG have made in this thread actually has nothing directly to do with the subject. What...not interesting enough? But I can understand how the Rockman's comments can be more interesting then almost anything else. LOL.

The Chines empire is already making great strides into Africa, it has now taken another step towards total domination, by initiating a language shift!.

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-37679954

"Ni hao!" a group of Kenyan schoolchildren call in unison as they bound uphill towards a wooden hut perched on the hill ahead.

"Those are some of my new students," teacher Liu Yimenghan tells me, smiling broadly. "Chinese is their favourite class."

The Chang Rong Light Centre in Kenya's Mathare slums is a 15-minute drive from the centre of Nairobi, but it feels like a world away. Kiosks nearby sell Chinese colouring books, dim sum bubbles on hot stoves and schoolchildren carry canvas book bags from Beijing.

It's here, among some of Kenya's poorest communities, that Chinese companies are investing heavily, building roads and residential blocks. Many are now turning to education, developing programmes to teach Mandarin to at-risk young people on the outskirts of the capital city.

"It's a way to understand a different culture. As well as learning a new language, we also teach them about our way of life," Liu explains. "Next year, we hope to bring Kenyan children to China so they can practise their Mandarin there."

Having Chinese speaking subjects who are favoured by Chinese masters employers over non Chinese speaking subjects will speed up the process no end.