Peak Oil News and Message Boards

It's easy to have the conception of the world grinding to a halt when you live in a locale which is. More so when it's your entire country or region. Maybe more so for trackers of mainstream economic data. But easy to not note the improvements going on for many millions. There is an entirely different vibe in the developing world, forward looking & satisfied with far less than most westerners would get by with in their worst nightmares.

SeaGypsy wrote: There is an entirely different vibe in the developing world, forward looking & satisfied with far less than most westerners would get by with in their worst nightmares.

Exactly. Every week or so I read these posts about how the US will survive peak oil so much better than the so called "3rd world". I don't even comment anymore.

Westerners worst nightmare is losing their perceived privilege.

There are a whole bunch of assumptions caught up in that view, central to which is having first dibs on global resource allocations. This ignoring the fact of capitalism tending to direct resources at the base level where there is the most bang for the buck. Westerners despite self declared free marketeers are actually totally dependent on protectionism, because of the fact that people in the west expect a far higher standard of living for far less effort. This aside from the fact when you live in a country where the government does zero for people you live in a community in a way westerners can't generally fathom.

that is so true. People in poor countries are so much more self-reliant especially in terms of expectations. This is evident from the network of self-reliance that exists in third world countries. This network could prove useful for some in these countries to stay afloat during the era of collapse. This is pretty much lacking in rich countries.

onlooker wrote:that is so true. People in poor countries are so much more self-reliant especially in terms of expectations. This is evident from the network of self-reliance that exists in third world countries. This network could prove useful for some in these countries to stay afloat during the era of collapse. This is pretty much lacking in rich countries.

In reality those in the third world are probably better prepared to survive a fast crash then those in the first.

This makes me remember Orlov, who had direct experience of the collapse of Communism and how Russians adapted. He states that in the US we are so much less prepared to deal with this fast crash scenario.

I am currently studying community services at university, talk about expectation vs sustainability! If I let on directly what I expect to come of the high falutin ethics of the community services sector in the long run I may become persona non grata. I advocate for a system more in common with the developing world, which the CS sector sees as retrograde, assuming a benevolent & beneficent government will always be there writing checks for 10s or 100s of thousands of bucks per annum per casualty, be they old or infirm or criminally incarcerated. The idea of this being a hugely inefficient system of care does not occur. The idea of a community dealing with it's own without or with minimum help is completely outside of mainstream community services agenda, whereas in the developing countries this is exactly the primary focus of community services organisations as a matter of necessity.

Orlov is a bit controversial around here, Onlooker, I like him though as much as a person as a writer, I have corresponded with him & he takes time to do so with many people around the world.

Indeed. I recall references to communities with small numbers of families, skills needed for sustainability and localization, and physical assets such as tools, arable land, and water.

from where we came is maybe where we are returning

More realistically & importantly, where we are headed is likely best represented in some of India or Latin America's more affluent provinces. A big step down for the first world & a few steps up for most of humanity. Yanks might even be riding scooters in our lifetime.

SeaGypsy wrote:aside from the fact when you live in a country where the government does zero for people you live in a community in a way westerners can't generally fathom.

You mean like machete massacres in Rwanda? I really don't think anyone contributing to this thread is qualified to wax philosophical about the cultural superiority of 3rd world community. It isn't necessarily the rustic fantasy you guys are making it out to be. You're all on the outside looking in, and most of this romanticizing is driven by guilt.

And for the record, I've watched The Power of Community. I get the selling point. I just think it smacks of "grass is greener on the other side" which never turns out to be true when you actually experience it.

I think Sea is referring to a properly functioning community. I myself have no illusions that in the way we have evolved any type of society has been a paradise or is a paradise. But the take I get is that when a community is functioning optimally, people feel they have a common purpose and are linked by a set of beliefs and the expectation of mutual assistance for the benefit of everyone. When humans are helping each other that can be a boom to the entire community or society. The adage "United we stand, separate we fall" does on face value make sense. The problem is our dysfunctional evolution and our innate primitive negative impulses which can disrupt this potential harmony. Now, just because it is not easy to create this "community" does not mean we should not try.

The Great Rehash, Part Two: The Future’s Cold Eyes

Greers latest proselytizing.