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With the advent, in the foreseeable future, of driverless cars, there will be less of a need for driver's licenses. So what will replace them as means of identification? Will there be government issued id-cards, or some system of bio-metric markers, or won't we need it as everything is happening on-line?

While we cannot know the future, what do you think might happen?

At present (I am in a country where one should carry an id-card) the driver's license is the main Id-card that I use (say at the bank). Of course if I am on-line then I use the banking system id (with a separate password for each log-in).

Actual practical self driving cars are at least a decade away, & the marketing analysts are already concerned nobody wants one. I'm unaware how things work in the US, but for nearly 30 years our MVR equivalent has issued "proof of age" cards- as valid as a driver's license for I'd purposes- but no driving authority.

Australia is about to trial biometric passports- no showing of a physical document required- your face is your passport. It's real & it's happening now. There won't be any need for microchipping people, in 2-5 years your face will be your passport, drivers license, car & house key etc.

In Texas you can get an ID card instead of a drivers license if you don't want to or can not pass the test for some reason. Also, in the US, you can get a credit-card sized version of the passport that would work similarly.

EdwinSm wrote:With the advent, in the foreseeable future, of driverless cars, there will be less of a need for driver's licenses. So what will replace them as means of identification? Will there be government issued id-cards, or some system of bio-metric markers, or won't we need it as everything is happening on-line?

While we cannot know the future, what do you think might happen?

At present (I am in a country where one should carry an id-card) the driver's license is the main Id-card that I use (say at the bank). Of course if I am on-line then I use the banking system id (with a separate password for each log-in).

In Michigan they issue State ID cards that are the same size and shape as a Driver's License but only cost half as much for people who do not drive. It is your legal ID for everything from check cashing on down but if you get caught driving with just an ID card there are substantial penalties. The state is also very clear that you can have one or the other, but not both. If you have a State ID and upgrade you have to turn in the ID at the time you switch.

Shopping is already a redundant activity for most people, no need to ever leave the house, except to go to your soon to be redundant job.

Sea...1+

Back to the topic....look at motor voter legislation. This topic is deeply embedded in our national politics.

The states are required by Federal legislation to provide state issued ID that meets certain federal standards. The easiest way to do this was through standardizing the drivers license and expanding that ID system to non drivers.

The Federal stake in this is that it also forms the basis of the voter registration data base. De facto the states are REQUIRED to vet voters for eligibility. States are REQUIRED to check your immigration/citizenship status and note that to develop who is eligible to vote. The vast majority of states have not done this which is the basis for Trumps claim of millions of ineligible voters voting for Hillary.

While that seems over the top, the little research I did indicated the problem was far from insignificant. I can't recall the exact numbers, however researchers found that in Philadelphia alone, some hundred or so ineligible voters had been registered. The interesting thing is these were only identified because these voters came forward and self reported the error. No one knows the percent of folks who would voluntarily self report such an error but it surely must be very, very low. So it would seem that in Philadelphia alone there are some thousands of illegally registered voters.

I'm not claiming some grand conspiracy, just noting the incompetence of our government to protect our basic rights at a fundamental level.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationa ... ct_of_1993

In every state in the union, as far as I can ascertain, you can get a state issued ID card. There is a minimal cost to do so and in many states its absolutely free. Just need to show a birth certificate and some proof of residency. You need this or a driver's license to conduct any sort of business or to claim some sort of government benefit. How courts determine its racist to require a person to show ID to vote is beyond my understanding.

Are blacks and Latinos so mentally impaired or uneducated that they can't go down to the local DMV and get a free ID card? You would think so by the claims that requiring an ID to vote constitutes racism.

Cog wrote:In every state in the union, as far as I can ascertain, you can get a state issued ID card. There is a minimal cost to do so and in many states its absolutely free. Just need to show a birth certificate and some proof of residency. You need this or a driver's license to conduct any sort of business or to claim some sort of government benefit. How courts determine its racist to require a person to show ID to vote is beyond my understanding.

Are blacks and Latinos so mentally impaired or uneducated that they can't go down to the local DMV and get a free ID card? You would think so by the claims that requiring an ID to vote constitutes racism.

+1

Or that wanting to check one's ID to vote IN ANY FORM is "voter suppression", as though it were difficult to impossible for ANY voter to get such a voter ID.

But that's the far left way, since their agenda is to claim that the GOP is a bunch of racists who don't want to let poor people vote.

Well then, now that the GOP is in power they can encourage the states to comply with motor-voter legislation.

Newfie wrote:Well then, now that the GOP is in power they can encourage the states to comply with motor-voter legislation.

What states are refusing to comply with Motor Voter? My understanding is they are all in compliance because failure to comply cuts their federal highway funding.

Back in my day, you went down to the court house and filled out a registration card to become a voter. Didn't seem that big of a deal to me.

I've always wanted to say "back in my day". I now feel I'm old enough to say it.

Most countries in Europe have state issued ID cards that are separate from the driving licence, some countries like the UK don't have any official ID cards at all, but have recently introduced "passport cards" for those who want them.

Driving licences are often used in lieu of an ID card as modern ones have photo's on them, I still have an older version that doesn't. When I need to prove my ID, I use a passport.

Tanada wrote:

Newfie wrote:Well then, now that the GOP is in power they can encourage the states to comply with motor-voter legislation.

What states are refusing to comply with Motor Voter? My understanding is they are all in compliance because failure to comply cuts their federal highway funding.

Tanada,
You may have me there. I researched this back in the fall and I may have made the assumption that if the States were required to register voters, and the States were required to provide some form of common ID, then the States were required to check citizenship.

Unbelievably to me, this is not so. States are permitted to ASK if you are a citizen, but are barred from REQUIRING PROOF. Therfore, de facto, we have no VERIFIABLE proof that our voter registration roles do not contain non-citizens, and requesting proof is illegal.

One more example that pitfalls are encountered when using logic.

The Trump Administration is acting to require all US citizens to have passports. Likely they will be used for both domestic and foriegn travel. Of a certainty, those passports that have been issued to child sex offenders will be recalled and reissued with the sex offenses included on the back inside rear cover: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/02/us/passports-child-sex-offenders.html

Meanwhile, the US began issuing biometric e-Passports in October 2016, the embedded chips contain secure encrypted electronic photos of the owner plus thumbprints. Proposed enhancements are a complete set of fingerprints, retina scans, and even DNA information.

The symbol below the word "America" is the e-Passport chip.

I already carry my passport when I travel, and I am not a sex offender, and I'm not a criminal, and I don't really care if they check my prints, as I already log onto my PC's that way. I just find it convenient to have a passport when visiting New England or Wisconsin, in case I want to visit Canada. But this all has ominous overtones IMHO. Likely the individual states will act as they have been with "sanctuary cities" to frustrate the Feds.

SeaGypsy wrote:Australia is about to trial biometric passports- no showing of a physical document required- your face is your passport. It's real & it's happening now. There won't be any need for microchipping people, in 2-5 years your face will be your passport, drivers license, car & house key etc.

As for house keys, until they MAKE me do that, I'm not going for it. Computer systems can be hacked, after all. And huge, stupid, errors in security, even by big companies happen far too often. Here's a recent example by the much ballyhood Apple Computer:

https://techcrunch.com/2017/11/28/aston ... a-machine/

I'm not buying into such risks. Maybe as a person who spent a career in the IT industry, and had to be very concerned about corporate security rules/audits for fully half that career, I'm too cautious. But the trend of the news, even from major players is NOT confidence inspiring, IMO.

A few thoughts

Look into REAL ID which is where the Feds are requiring states to adhere to a certain set of standards. It sounds like it will require states to verify your citizenship or visa status and note that on your DL.

We have GOES/NEXUS cards with rental scan. Not available at all airports but it allows you to skip right through, in theory.

GASMON wrote:No ID cards at all in the UK, Photo driving licence cards are available, but I still (legally) have my old paper one, no photo. You quite legally do not need to carry your licence or any form of ID at all anywhere, even when driving, though the police can stop & request you produce & show it to a police station within 3 days. They won't shoot you - they don't (usually) carry guns !!!!.

Interesting? Do you need ID to fly domestically in the UK?

I have watched some Netflix shows about cops in the UK in recent weeks. I noticed that although some of the cops mention that they worry about the most violent offenders potentially having a gun, NONE of the episodes I saw had ordinary officers or even the violent offenders they were chasing or arresting show any fire-arms.

I knew this was true, at least to a large extent, intellectually, but it's really something to see it, and compare it to what goes on routinely in the US. (For example, any traffic stop I've witnessed, they have their service pistols at the ready in the US).

GASMON wrote:We'll all be chipped one day, system says no and your'e instantly stateless with no ID or money !!

666 The number of the beast.

Clearly, some religious people won't like that.

My concerns will be strictly medical, and risk via hackability. (The idea of technology wired to our brains to, for example, enhance memory, that might get hacked and send unwanted crap to your mind that CAN'T BE TURNED OFF, for example, is unacceptable to me -- even if that day is still decades away).

Shades of "They Live", but run by the people we elect, perhaps? (i.e. the "Obey". "Consume", etc. messages).

Oh, and since "nothing could go wrong", certainly nothing to be concerned about with such a system, even IF no nefarious behavior emerges from the people running things.