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US vs. IRAN: There will be blood

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.

Re: US vs. IRAN: There will be blood

Unread postby careinke » Sun 05 Jan 2020, 03:45:02

Plantagenet wrote:Trump just drew a red line that I hope Iran doesn't cross.

trump-warning-iran-52-targets

Trump tweeted that if Iran "strikes any Americans, or American assets....We have ... targeted 52 Iranian sites (representing the 52 American hostages taken by Iran many years ago), some at a very high level & important to Iran & the Iranian culture" and "if Iran strikes any Americans, or American assets... Iran itself, WILL BE HIT VERY FAST AND VERY HARD."

Cheers!


Well that's not good. I think the targeting of cultural sites is a bluff, (Because it IS a war crime), but I don't think he is bluffing on 52 targets. :(

We need to leave and let them fight their own wars.
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Re: US vs. IRAN: There will be blood

Unread postby Cog » Sun 05 Jan 2020, 04:19:21

Cultural sites can be attacked if they are being used for military purposes. Think the Iranians wouldn't build a bomb factory in a mosque or underneath one?

Trump is hinting something to the Iranians.
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Re: US vs. IRAN: There will be blood

Unread postby Yoshua » Sun 05 Jan 2020, 05:26:15

Trump's Red Line is an invitation to ISIS to do a False Flag attack...or to anyone who wants to ignite a war between the U.S and Iran.
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Re: US vs. IRAN: There will be blood

Unread postby Yoshua » Sun 05 Jan 2020, 06:54:47

Inside info on Suleimani's attacks on U.S assets.

https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/ ... ssion=true
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Re: US vs. IRAN: There will be blood

Unread postby Newfie » Sun 05 Jan 2020, 07:28:05

careinke wrote:
Plantagenet wrote:Trump just drew a red line that I hope Iran doesn't cross.

trump-warning-iran-52-targets

Trump tweeted that if Iran "strikes any Americans, or American assets....We have ... targeted 52 Iranian sites (representing the 52 American hostages taken by Iran many years ago), some at a very high level & important to Iran & the Iranian culture" and "if Iran strikes any Americans, or American assets... Iran itself, WILL BE HIT VERY FAST AND VERY HARD."

Cheers!


Well that's not good. I think the targeting of cultural sites is a bluff, (Because it IS a war crime), but I don't think he is bluffing on 52 targets. :(

We need to leave and let them fight their own wars.


Careinke,

IMHO you are absolutely correct. We need to get out of the region.
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Re: US vs. IRAN: There will be blood

Unread postby asg70 » Sun 05 Jan 2020, 10:41:18

So, um, anyone out there still want to pat Trump on the back for being a pacifist via his isolationism?

Beuller?

BOLD PREDICTIONS
-Billions are on the verge of starvation as the lockdown continues. (yoshua, 5/20/20)

HALL OF SHAME:
-Short welched on a bet and should be shunned.
-Frequent-flyers should not cry crocodile-tears over climate-change.
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Re: US vs. IRAN: There will be blood

Unread postby asg70 » Sun 05 Jan 2020, 10:46:00

careinke wrote:
asg70 wrote:I don't consider friends and family of terrorists "civilians" and the #1 advantage of drone strikes is no US body-bags. That's fine in my book. Terrorists don't fight fair and the only way to one-up them is technology.


How about deliberately targeting a US citizen for assasination with no due process??? Which president was that again??


His father was targeted, who was effectively a traitor and enemy combatant. He was collateral damage. Sympathy = low. I agree that it falls in a morally gray area but have no problem with what Obama did given the evidence.

BOLD PREDICTIONS
-Billions are on the verge of starvation as the lockdown continues. (yoshua, 5/20/20)

HALL OF SHAME:
-Short welched on a bet and should be shunned.
-Frequent-flyers should not cry crocodile-tears over climate-change.
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Re: US vs. IRAN: There will be blood

Unread postby evilgenius » Sun 05 Jan 2020, 11:23:17

I can see the point of Trump's confidence. The next phase of industrial evolution in the US will be done on the back of AI. The US will dominate, but not alongside the cost of labor. The thing is, it takes a while for some things to be adopted.

AI will definitely change finance, legal and other professional aspects of the economy before it will replace the cheapest sort of labor. But once it becomes economically viable to replace that labor, it will be done. Doing that is, after all, a one time cost. It's just going to take whatever arrangements which are essential within a vibrant economy for the laggards to come along. Nursing home robots may not arrive as quickly as certain aspects of nursing home work, like lifting people into the tub, may become automated. Belt sorting will take innovation in articulated limbs, which AI can use for package manipulation. Same goes for berry picking.

So, there is reason for hope. Trump can engage in anti-globalist decoupling from the Asian manufacturing sector, because labor will become a thing of the past. Yep, and I'm still waiting for my personal jetpack, and flying car. The speed of change has been getting faster. It may be good enough to hop on board now. But the change may not reach the level necessary to rely upon AI. It may get close, but if this is rushed...

Yeah, so it's like throwing from your own end zone when you are up by a touchdown close to the end of the game. It may be a risk not worth taking, for only as much reward as you would get if you let the current way stay in place, only that it wouldn't mature for a few more years. Because, right now, American Finance is still fairly essential to whatever trading success happens between the two regions. And American Finance is undergoing a cost cutting revolution.
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Re: US vs. IRAN: There will be blood

Unread postby bochen777 » Sun 05 Jan 2020, 13:26:41

evilgenius wrote:I can see the point of Trump's confidence. The next phase of industrial evolution in the US will be done on the back of AI. The US will dominate, but not alongside the cost of labor. The thing is, it takes a while for some things to be adopted.

AI will definitely change finance, legal and other professional aspects of the economy before it will replace the cheapest sort of labor. But once it becomes economically viable to replace that labor, it will be done. Doing that is, after all, a one time cost. It's just going to take whatever arrangements which are essential within a vibrant economy for the laggards to come along. Nursing home robots may not arrive as quickly as certain aspects of nursing home work, like lifting people into the tub, may become automated. Belt sorting will take innovation in articulated limbs, which AI can use for package manipulation. Same goes for berry picking.

So, there is reason for hope. Trump can engage in anti-globalist decoupling from the Asian manufacturing sector, because labor will become a thing of the past. Yep, and I'm still waiting for my personal jetpack, and flying car. The speed of change has been getting faster. It may be good enough to hop on board now. But the change may not reach the level necessary to rely upon AI. It may get close, but if this is rushed...

Yeah, so it's like throwing from your own end zone when you are up by a touchdown close to the end of the game. It may be a risk not worth taking, for only as much reward as you would get if you let the current way stay in place, only that it wouldn't mature for a few more years. Because, right now, American Finance is still fairly essential to whatever trading success happens between the two regions. And American Finance is undergoing a cost cutting revolution.


Speaking of AI
Its why Trump is targeting Huawei
AI is the brains, 5G is the data interconnect.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVbLBF0ramM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gysKE3POUv0

Bad news is the current forms of "AI" so-called deep machine learning, without other major breakthroughs, will not bring about the sort of abundance, UBI, "no more need for human labor/thought/effort" that you are idealizing about...

Turns out it is 10 times as hard to go from 90% self driving car to 100% self driving (fully Level 5 autonomy) than it was to go from 0% to the first 90%... and you can forget about self flying airlines, Boeing couldn't even get the 737MAX MCAS issue fixed after almost a year, and the flying public will never trust them on an airplane without a cockpit or pilots. True a lot of jobs have already been automated away and still a lot more will be, but most of this has nothing or little to do with "AI"... McDonalds installing Kiosks at every site has nothing to do with advancements in AI, most of these automation even like the amazon go casherless/cashless stores have nothing to do with 'deep learning' or 'machine learning' applications and its questionable if even ML in its current form is even a true AI, it is not any close to AGI.

if people really want to prepare for the jobless society Trump is not your man, Andrew yang was on the AI bandwagon when Trump during first campaign was still talking about bring jobs back and never even heard of Ai : https://www.yang2020.com/

https://macdailynews.com/2019/01/07/way ... ver-exist/
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2018/12/ub ... g-in-2018/
https://medium.com/@karpathy/alphago-in ... 7718cb95a5

People on here 15 years ago reading LATOC and getting too exciting about the coming Peak Oil crash are now on the AI -> Singularity bandwagon?

hate to break it to you but not gonna happen anytime soon, not within the next few decades.
Last edited by bochen777 on Sun 05 Jan 2020, 14:28:49, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: US vs. IRAN: There will be blood

Unread postby jedrider » Sun 05 Jan 2020, 13:39:20

Yoshua wrote:Inside info on Suleimani's attacks on U.S assets.

https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/ ... ssion=true


Interesting, but why are we still in Iraq?

I thought they hated us by now.

Iran, evidently, was instrumental in the defeat of Al Quaeda and ISIS so, obviously, it's complicated.

Anyone think that Trump understands how complicated it is?

Neocons didn't ever appear to understand it, so how could Trump do so.

Why The US IS Waging War On Iran because of Regime Change or just Propping up MIC (Military Industrial Complex)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ya4NnVVTdds&feature=youtu.be
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Re: US vs. IRAN: There will be blood

Unread postby EnergyUnlimited » Sun 05 Jan 2020, 13:47:04

My take on it is that there won't be a war with Iran within next 6 months but US is being sabotaged.
Iran will make closer links with China, Russia and few others and with time a new anti-US and this time formidably powerful block may emerge.
It may also convince them to acquire nukes by one means or another.
There is hardly any significant nation (and that include Germany) which is *not* in trade dispute with US and not affected by american sanctions.
Meantime US begins to lag behind with critical military tech like hypersonic missiles, encryption, air defences etc.
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Re: US vs. IRAN: There will be blood

Unread postby jedrider » Sun 05 Jan 2020, 13:59:53

Yet, US is mired in it's own cultural war:

Lindsey Graham calls Colin Kaepernick a ‘racist’ for opposing murder of ‘brown people’
https://www.rawstory.com/2020/01/look-in-the-mirror-lindsey-graham-calls-colin-kaepernick-a-racist-for-opposing-murder-of-brown-people/

Not exactly a position of strength to start a new war halfway around the world which no one else has an interest in it's escalation.
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Re: US vs. IRAN: There will be blood

Unread postby EnergyUnlimited » Sun 05 Jan 2020, 14:11:39

jedrider wrote:Yet, US is mired in it's own cultural war:

Lindsey Graham calls Colin Kaepernick a ‘racist’ for opposing murder of ‘brown people’
https://www.rawstory.com/2020/01/look-in-the-mirror-lindsey-graham-calls-colin-kaepernick-a-racist-for-opposing-murder-of-brown-people/

Not exactly a position of strength to start a new war halfway around the world which no one else has an interest in it's escalation.

They are both idiots.
Iranians actually are predominately white and in fact in large proportion they are a branch of Indoeuropean (Aryan) people.
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Re: US vs. IRAN: There will be blood

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sun 05 Jan 2020, 14:23:03

jedrider wrote:Iran, evidently, was instrumental in the defeat of .... ISIS so, obviously, it's complicated.


Yes. The complication is that ISIS were SUNNI terrorists and Iran is a SHIA terrorist terrorist state. ISIS wanted to overthrow the regime in Baghdad because it is dominated by SHIA and they wanted to overthrow the regime in Syria because it is dominated by SHIA, Iran, on the other hand, backed both regimes in Syria and Iraq because they're dominated by SHIA and helped the US take down ISIS because it was SUNNI.

jedrider wrote:Anyone think that Trump understands how complicated it is?


Of course not.

Trump destroyed the SUNNI ISIS Caliphate and then killed the SUNNI al Bagdadi the leader of the SUNNI ISIS terrorists, and now he just killed Solemani, the leader of the SHIA state terrorists and he's threatening to attack SHIA Iran if they sanction more attacks on US personal.

Image
To Trump whether a person is a SUNNI terrorist or a SHIA terrorist does't matter..... they're just all terrorists who threaten Americans.

Cheers!
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Re: US vs. IRAN: There will be blood

Unread postby asg70 » Sun 05 Jan 2020, 16:12:12

bochen777 wrote:True a lot of jobs have already been automated away and still a lot more will be, but most of this has nothing or little to do with "AI"


Semantics. That this flavor of automation is being done now and wasn't seen as practical/feasible before is what matters.

bochen777 wrote:hate to break it to you but not gonna happen anytime soon, not within the next few decades.


Singularity, no. Increasing jobs phase-out due to automation, yes.

BOLD PREDICTIONS
-Billions are on the verge of starvation as the lockdown continues. (yoshua, 5/20/20)

HALL OF SHAME:
-Short welched on a bet and should be shunned.
-Frequent-flyers should not cry crocodile-tears over climate-change.
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Re: US vs. IRAN: There will be blood

Unread postby dissident » Sun 05 Jan 2020, 16:41:14

Pompous ass Pompeo is not happy that the EU minions are not as enthusiastic about this act of terror by the USA. One man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter. And I do not see lots of Europeans and Americans living in Iraq and Iran. Since the 2003 invasion of Iraq based on pure false pretenses (organization of 9/11 and WMD, which even it had existed gave no legal grounds for any invasion) and the ensuing slaughter of one million Iraqis actually justifies targeting of US assets by locals, the victim of this attack is no terrorist.

It is thick and rich for the US, which is in bed with the biggest terror exporters in the world, the Saudis, to bleat about Iranian "terrorists". There is no such thing. Real terror outfits (ISIS, Hamas, Al Qaeda) are exclusively Sunni and sponsored both directly and indirectly by the US and its "allies". The US is and has been openly collaborating with Al Qaeda in Syria. Don't bitch about terrorists and terror you bloody hypocrites.
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Re: US vs. IRAN: There will be blood

Unread postby asg70 » Sun 05 Jan 2020, 17:13:29

Trump's policies are inconsistent to say the least. He's isolationist in ways that are counter-productive, like abandoning the Kurds in Syria, and now this clumsy move in Iraq. He is in so many ways the proverbial bull in a China shop which has dire consequences when it comes to military engagement.

Either way, I don't appreciate the simplistic and all-too-prdictable demonizing of the US that seems to always accompany this sort of thing. Presumably dissident is a US citizen? He sounds like he'd be right at home chanting death to America. I'm not down with that sort of self-loathing and rationalizing the scum of the earth who blow up restaurants with nail bombs and the like.

Moral of the story--DON'T REELECT TRUMP.

BOLD PREDICTIONS
-Billions are on the verge of starvation as the lockdown continues. (yoshua, 5/20/20)

HALL OF SHAME:
-Short welched on a bet and should be shunned.
-Frequent-flyers should not cry crocodile-tears over climate-change.
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Re: US vs. IRAN: There will be blood

Unread postby EnergyUnlimited » Sun 05 Jan 2020, 17:48:26

asg70 wrote:Moral of the story--DON'T REELECT TRUMP.

Would you prefer Hillary Clinton and later AOC?
Does it really matter, who will be a president?
It is very clear for me that US is right now being sabotaged.
For example what was the point to threaten european companies with sanctions, should they carry on construction of North Stream 2 to Germany?
Did US intend to ensure even closer cooperation of Germany with Russia, as this will be precisely an outcome?
It is obvious that this project will be completed.
So was it an intention to show that US cannot achieve its objections?

There is plenty of similar actions recently taken by US.
Disputes with Turkey, India, with EU over taxes on GAFA there etc.
It all looks for me like an effort to sabotage US from within.
To alienate it from entire world and unite the world against american interests.
Completely insane.
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Re: US vs. IRAN: There will be blood

Unread postby Newfie » Sun 05 Jan 2020, 18:36:05

Think about this in context. Consequence of planning?

https://gcaptain.com/turbo-activation-1 ... a-trickle/
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Re: US vs. IRAN: There will be blood

Unread postby Yoshua » Sun 05 Jan 2020, 18:54:24

The Middle East is probably too complicated even for people in the Middle East.

Britain and France carved up those nations. Different ethnic groups, sects and tribes were lumped together into multiculti nations.

There are 1400 tribes in Saudi Arabia fighting over power. Some of those tribes supported Al Qaeda. After 9/11 the House of Saud rounded up some of the radicalized tribe members.

House of Saud just exports the Wahhabi ideology, which is perfectly legal in a multiculti world.

Shia Iran supported and trained Sunni Al Qaeda in Hezbollah camps and used them in the Yugoslavian Wars. Iran also allowed 10 of terrorist in 9/11 to pass through Iran to Afghanistan.

The head of Al Qaeda today Ayman Zawahiri spent 6 months at a FSB training camp in Russia before he joined Al Qaeda in Afghanistan where they declared war on the USA. Soon after followed the attack...which was too big for Al Qaeda to pull off without state support.

All these things are public records as far as I understand.

Who created ISIS? Most likely Iran, Iraq and Syria to legitimise a massacre of the Sunni populations in Iraq and Syria.
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