[onlooker]

I have already read enough to convince me that the US economy is at this point like a walking zombie. Alive yet dead. I see even around where I live, businesses closing left and right , boarded up. We have a debt ridden, job lacking and stagnant economy. All the bubbles have been blown up. No more bubbles. I know Europe is bad but just as bad is the US. We are witnessing the unraveling of the western economies. See this link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1f7Op8ti4kQ

[Rod_Cloutier]

I saw this today on the web, as of April 4th, 302 people have been killed by domestic police in the US in 2015:

http://www.killedbypolice.net/

The link also shows 1,100 people killed by domestic police in 2014. Old people, middle aged people, young adults, teens. If not demise, certainly decline.

[Outcast_Searcher]

I saw this today on the web, as of April 4th, 302 people have been killed by domestic police in the US in 2015:

http://www.killedbypolice.net/

The link also shows 1,100 people killed by domestic police in 2014. Old people, middle aged people, young adults, teens. If not demise, certainly decline.

Why is a problem we need to work on "decline" or "demise"? I HATE things like the theft of property without any need for proof much less conviction (civil forfeiture), which incidentally, also directly helps police departments, which makes it a conflict of interest. I also abhor the violence by the police (who are supposedly trained professionals) against people they don't like.

However, I see this as a serious problem with the system -- not a sign of general decline. A good thing about secular society is less control by the church. A bad thing about secular society is less willingness for people to voluntarily do the "right thing" for moral reasons.

I see this (look at corporate and government corruption as other examples) as more a problem with schools than a general decline, but that's just one man's (considered) opinion.

[Outcast_Searcher]

So outcast, you hate the poor and the liberals, you deserve everything you have worked for and the rest is crap. Got it.

Have you had head trauma? I said I don't like the police stealing property when they directly benefit, without even needing to arrest or convict anyone (which is what happens under asset forfeiture laws). I also said I don't like the police violence on people THEY don't like.

I stand by that. Now, how exactly does that translate into ANYTHING to do with liberals, the poor, or what I earned, exactly?

[Rod_Cloutier]

I also abhor the violence by the police (who are supposedly trained professionals) against people they don't like.

The people the police don't like are predominately black and Hispanic. The link I provided above has a picture of each of the people the police killed this year. (Mostly black and Hispanic)

To get back to the original post- I see the same thing that onlooker sees, closing stores, boarded up shops, abandoned factories. This is the Lehman crisis unfolding again, this time however in slow motion.

[Subjectivist]

I also abhor the violence by the police (who are supposedly trained professionals) against people they don't like.

The people the police don't like are predominately black and Hispanic. The link I provided above has a picture of each of the people the police killed this year. (Mostly black and Hispanic)

To get back to the original post- I see the same thing that onlooker sees, closing stores, boarded up shops, abandoned factories. This is the Lehman crisis unfolding again, this time however in slow motion.

Don't I'd yourself poor white folks are jst as looked down upon by those in authority including the Police. It is about social status more than skin tone in most cases.

[Pops]

I'll tell you what I think; if you look hard enough, you can find a citation/study/book/blog/or preacher to tell you exactly what you already think. LOL

Personally I find it harder and harder to make heads or tails of the economy. Just read "Flash Boys" about high speed trading, I recommend it. It explains how the very basis of the corporate economy, the stock markets, have been rigged to rip off the people who nominally "own" those corporations.

There are a couple dozen public markets where stocks are traded in the US, plus who knows how many "dark pools" run by the big banks. Basically HSTers use fast computers and faster connections that see your offer to buy (or sell) in one market and can go to the other markets, buy stock offered there cheaper, then come back and sell it to you - before the other markets can even react.

That is the essence of the stock market today, 60-70% of "volume" is these fast computers co-located with the "markets" own price matching computers - in the same building - then connected via superfast fiber to the other markets, putting up fake offers as bait and then front running the investors who bite. It adds no value to the market, how can it? They only hold stock for a few microseconds? It is just the classic bait and switch and it skims billions off the economy every year for absolutely no benefit.

But it also obscures, which is what crooks like. When the "flashcrash" happened a few years ago, millions of trades were made within the few seconds the markets tanked but because they happened in micro- and nano-seconds and the "markets" only logged by the second; no one knew - then or now - what exactly happened.


Any screen of Google News business will tell you a dozen different — not just a little but diametrically opposed — explanations of the market gyrations of the moment. When even the people at the heart of the scam aren't exactly sure how the algorithms ("algos") work or how they will react or what they did until much later I'm pretty sure the average Joe has no chance.

It could be a great example, if one were to pursue it, of a place where for all intents and purposes the "Singularity" has already happened. The Algos are in control.


But that wasn't where I started to go, LOL. There really is no difference between OF2's thread of shoots & cherries press releases (or his previous thread of reposted Oil Discovery! press releases) or any number of Doom ' Day one-trick blogs (or U-Tubes) they just preach a different sermon to the believers.
Like that immortal poet, Rod Stewart, said: "Every picture tells a story don't it"—the task is trying to figure out from which side the picture is taken.

.

[Tanada]

I'll tell you what I think; if you look hard enough, you can find a citation/study/book/blog/or preacher to tell you exactly what you already think. LOL

Personally I find it harder and harder to make heads or tails of the economy. Just read "Flash Boys" about high speed trading, I recommend it. It explains how the very basis of the corporate economy, the stock markets, have been rigged to rip off the people who nominally "own" those corporations.

There are a couple dozen public markets where stocks are traded in the US, plus who knows how many "dark pools" run by the big banks. Basically HSTers use fast computers and faster connections that see your offer to buy (or sell) in one market and can go to the other markets, buy stock offered there cheaper, then come back and sell it to you - before the other markets can even react.

That is the essence of the stock market today, 60-70% of "volume" is these fast computers co-located with the "markets" own price matching computers - in the same building - then connected via superfast fiber to the other markets, putting up fake offers as bait and then front running the investors who bite. It adds no value to the market, how can it? They only hold stock for a few microseconds? It is just the classic bait and switch and it skims billions off the economy every year for absolutely no benefit.

But it also obscures, which is what crooks like. When the "flashcrash" happened a few years ago, millions of trades were made within the few seconds the markets tanked but because they happened in micro- and nano-seconds and the "markets" only logged by the second; no one knew - then or now - what exactly happened.

Any screen of Google News business will tell you a dozen different — not just a little but diametrically opposed — explanations of the market gyrations of the moment. When even the people at the heart of the scam aren't exactly sure how the algorithms ("algos") work or how they will react or what they did until much later I'm pretty sure the average Joe has no chance.

It could be a great example, if one were to pursue it, of a place where for all intents and purposes the "Singularity" has already happened. The Algos are in control.

But that wasn't where I started to go, LOL. There really is no difference between OF2's thread of shoots & cherries press releases (or his previous thread of reposted Oil Discovery! press releases) or any number of Doom ' Day one-trick blogs (or U-Tubes) they just preach a different sermon to the believers.
Like that immortal poet, Rod Stewart, said: "Every picture tells a story don't it"—the task is trying to figure out from which side the picture is taken.

You know the spouse and I watched a classic Cary Grant movie last Friday evening, His Girl Friday on Netflix. The story is about a Newspaper Editor/Owner and his ex-wife head reporter. Lets just say Reporters from the different papers including the star couple each come at the story that centers the movie from a different perspective and they all make up the story to fit their bias, not to fit the facts.

[KaiserJeep]

You know the spouse and I watched a classic Cary Grant movie last Friday evening, His Girl Friday on Netflix. The story is about a Newspaper Editor/Owner and his ex-wife head reporter. Lets just say Reporters from the different papers including the star couple each come at the story that centers the movie from a different perspective and they all make up the story to fit their bias, not to fit the facts.

That's the internet in a nutshell. Lots of stories, lots of interpretations, few facts.

The "Flash Boys" are too real, by the way. The last computer I did before my approaching retirement is interconnected via a high performance "Infiniband" network. It is so much faster that the stocks and commodities exchanges connected via vanilla GigaBit EtherNet can no longer compete in "High Frequency Trading". We'll eventually sell all of the six dozen odd exchanges new computers to replace the "old" and no longer competitive systems. Good business for us. If you don't have one of those high performance systems trading in microseconds, you should quite simply stay out of the market, because you are pure fodder for the Flash Boys.

The markets always were for the insiders. Now the insiders are the only ones who profit. They are also those with the fastest systems and the fastest trading apps.

[Outcast_Searcher]

If you don't have one of those high performance systems trading in microseconds, you should quite simply stay out of the market, because you are pure fodder for the Flash Boys.

Right...
If you're a day trader perhaps. But somehow ordinary folks like me manage an active account selling weekly and/or monthly option premium and making a nice annual profit just fine, and we completely ignore the flash folks. I appreciate the volume they provide the market. I can consistently buy/sell stocks now with under a one cent spread, thanks to them.

The markets always were for the insiders. Now the insiders are the only ones who profit. They are also those with the fastest systems and the fastest trading apps.

Yeah, that's why investors like Warren Buffett who trade in multi-year timeframes are bankrupt. (No, wait...) That's why buy-and-hold strategies with diverse and efficient index funds or ETF's no longer work. (No, wait...)

Knowing about fast network tech. doesn't equate to knowing all about investing, by the way. The human day traders whine loudly, talking their own book (doesn't everybody)? There is more than one side to the story, as books like "Dark Pools", and many editorial responses to "Flash Boys" showing how wrong Micheal Lewis was have shown. But let's not talk about that...

[Tanada]

The econmy is much more than just the stock market, so how are OTHER aspects of the ecnomy in your area doing?

[Pops]

I'm freelance graphic designer, I do some events (county fairs a specialty) some public transit in the SF bay, some retail, some hospital... all very small scale.

Typically this is my busiest time ($7k billing last month)
2 tiny jobs in my inbox right now.

This area in S WA state is logging and paper mills and shipping thru the port. I doubt much impact, boom times for TP at least. Lots of retail serving a large rural area though.

[onlooker]

The econmy is much more than just the stock market, so how are OTHER aspects of the ecnomy in your area doing?

Seems inevitable that this will have adverse economic consequences across the board. As lockdowns/quaratines hinder and reduce trade, commerce and consumption

[asg70]

Seems inevitable that this will have adverse economic consequences across the board.

That's all? Adverse economic consequences? Rather mild considering your OP from five years ago predicted imminent doom.

[jedrider]

Seems inevitable that this will have adverse economic consequences across the board.

That's all? Adverse economic consequences? Rather mild considering your OP from five years ago predicted imminent doom.

What we all fear is that this is the Wizard of Oz moment we've been anticipating for a score of years.

[Outcast_Searcher]

What we all fear is that this is the Wizard of Oz moment we've been anticipating for a score of years.

But that makes no sense, as the purveyors of constant insta-doom keep claiming the system will soon be bankwupt because "reasons", and when the real story doesn't go their way, then they often make things up, citing doomer blogs, zerohedge, etc.

Then, when no one could have predicted it ahead of time (though no doubt, after the fact, many doomers and "financial gurus" will claim they did), how is THIS (basically a natural disaster) something you've been "anticipating"? It's not, no more than the broken clock can claim it's "accurate", twice a day.

Oh, I get it. When the fast crash insta-doom crowd has been wrong for decades and rinse and repeat weekly or monthly never worked, FINALLY, when something bad (and very random) comes along, THEN you've been "anticipating" it for 20 years.

Sure. I believe in that, and the tooth fairy too.

...

Meanwhile, in the real world, as painful as this is, and as ugly as the economic contraction numbers get for weeks or more likely months, it will pass. And like Robins and Flowers in spring, the economy will rebound.

Of course, that doesn't help all the people it kills, but 1% or 2% mortality, even if most of the world gets infected is NOT the end of the world.

Also, there are bright spots. As someone who likes to shop online and has slowly stockpiled some canned goods over the past month, I was thrilled to see Amazon hiring 100,000 more workers in the face of very strong demand, to keep that pipeline going, given the increasing chaos, panic, etc. at many supermarkets.

Who would have guessed? A broad based retailer doing well during a widespread economic shutdown.

It's not 1918. The internet, antivirals, vaccines, genetics, etc. are strong allies re fighting this thing, scary as it is.

[onlooker]

No its the final descent. This site was created to alert people to the threat of peak oil. Well that threat is at its most dire now. And a debt bubble of unprecedented proportions has been inflated. It now has popped. Think of Short and Hills Group. He is here almost daily warning of the energy apocalypse. Why? Because he is insane. Nope. Because even if his mathematical calculations have been off a bit as regards the complex real world, his infornation and message is prescient. What profit is he receiving being here and communicating his message? No monetary one for sure as this site has very few active posters. Meantime trillions of dollars are at stake in maintaining the idea that business as usual can continue on

So, the end of the oil age is upon us. The world economy almost certainly will be in tatters by the end of this year. Not enough energy or economic vibrancy to return to anything resembling prosperity.

[asg70]

This site was created to alert people to the threat of peak oil. Well that threat is at its most dire now.

You went from ETP acolyte to rebuking it and now you're back to pumping it up again? I long ago came to the conclusion that you are lacking in critical thinking skills, Onlooker, and statements like this only reinforce that.

Nobody with any good sense has any concern about oil prices right now, and Trump is using low prices to refill the SPR just for the heck of it. There's no connection between low oil prices and anything negative going on with the economy. If anything it prevents the situation from being far worse.