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Underground Coal Gassification

Discussions of conventional and alternative energy production technologies.

Re: Underground Coal Gasification Feasibility Report

Unread postby Scrub Puller » Thu 25 Jun 2015, 12:48:45

Yair . . . .

These folks are having problems . . . .

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-03-17/l ... ks/6323850


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Re: Underground Coal Gassification

Unread postby Tanada » Fri 17 Nov 2017, 22:41:06

Global energy demand had seen an exponential growth over the decade due to changing lifestyle. At the time when natural gas prices witnessing fluctuation and coal resources are depleting, the world is witnessing a significant gap between demand and supply of energy. Though as per World Coal Association, global coal reserves are estimated to be 861 tonne and accounts to 42% of total world electricity production; the year on year growth for coal consumption was highest in FY 2013, making it the highest since 1970. The demand for coal consumption is increasing every year thereby leading to depletion of coal reserves at an alarming rate. Moreover, most regions are economically unviable to extract coal from its bed. It is due to this reason that companies are looking for alternative solution that can lead to harnessing the total potential of coal, without disturbing the ecological balance.

Underground coal gasification (UCG) is an industrial process by which coal is gasified under intense heat and atmospheric pressure. This enables the production of synthetic gas, constituents of carbon monoxide and hydrogen, which are extracted through a well and utilized in various sectors, ranging from power generation to biodiesel and fertilizer production. Though this concept is not new to the market, little progress has been achieved in this sector, primarily due to low R&D. However, with growing energy consumption and fluctuating oil prices, industries are focusing on UCG to offer clean, efficient and cost-effective energy to various industries.

Asia-Pacific is projected as the largest market for underground coal gasification over the next 5 years due to impressive growth in end-use industries ranging from power to chemicals. China along with India, and Australia are key markets for underground coal gasification projects. China is the largest producer as well as the largest consumer of coal based energy. It consumes almost half of the total coal production to meet its energy demand. China has conducted 17 UCG trials since 1991 to check the economic viability of UCG.

Major power generating enterprise SinoCoking Coal is planning to harness coal reserves in Henan Province which was abruptly shut down because of strict environmental compliance set up by Chinese government. UCG is an environmental friendly approach that empowers companies to scale high power generation. With world’s most populated country, China offers a vibrant platform for energy sector companies to set up their base in China and thereby meet the growing demand of energy in China. Recently, China signed a whooping US $ 1.5 billion major pact with UK for commercial development of UCG in interiors of Mongolia.

Next prominent market is India. In India, mining contributes 10% of India’s GDP. With vast coal reserves, India is looking towards harnessing coal without disturbing ecological balance. There are also some sites which are economically nonviable to mine. Though India’s untapped 88.6 billion tonnes of non-metallurgical coal is found at a depth of 300 to 1200 metre is economically nonviable; UCG makes it economically sound option. Coal India Limited is trying to push the UCG technology to harness the coal in Kaitha (Jharkhand) and Thesgora (Madhya Pradesh) area. These two promising region is expected to generate high return on investment (ROI) by FY 2025.

Next prominent destination is Australia. In Australia, most companies are undertaking R&D to fully harness the concept of UCG. At present, three major UCG trials is being conducted by Linc Energy, Cougar Energy, and Carbon Energy at Queensland. Australian government is paying a vigil eye on these projects until the technology is commercially proven.SinoCoking Coal, Cougar Energy, Carbon Energy, Linc Energy, and ONGC are key market players that have conducted pilot projects on UCG technology.

Future is optimistic for underground coal gasification. With major innovations going around globally, it is expected to meet the needs of people in oil shortage region. Regions including APAC, and Africa will be a future market for underground coal gasification segments.


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Re: Underground Coal Gasification Feasibility Report

Unread postby Tanada » Sat 16 Dec 2017, 00:04:56

New video on UGC as currently being done in Kazakstan.

https://youtu.be/cmZClJmrtYg
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Re: Underground Coal Gasification Feasibility Report

Unread postby MickN » Sat 16 Dec 2017, 16:21:33

Thanks again Tanada- led to an interesting morning. To sum it up
1) We got lucky - North Sea oil and gas.
2) We wasted our good luck.
3) We are rapidly getting unlucky - Twilight years article on front page.
4) Our government has decided to run a JIT delivery sevice for natural gas imports- v.liitle storage.
5) We are moving towards running much of energy generation and domestic heating and cooking on natural gas.
6) Our luck returns - apparently we have trillions of tons of coal under the seas around our coasts.
7) UCG technology appears to have come on in leaps and bounds recently partly thanks to American expertise
in directional drilling.
8) UGC produces lots of,if not, good stuff then necessary stuff for the foreseeable future.
9) Some enviromental concerns would be looked into by running test plants.
10) The Government shuts the whole thing down.

I hope the know what they're doing - all the evidence would suggest otherwise. People don't like being cold and hungry.
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Re: Underground Coal Gasification Feasibility Report

Unread postby MickN » Sat 16 Dec 2017, 16:42:09

Thanks for the welcome PStarr- I am a long time lurker.

Any humour in this situation comes directly from the facts - our recent governments couldn't manage the
proverbial piss-up in a brewery.
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Re: Underground Coal Gasification Feasibility Report

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Sun 17 Dec 2017, 10:56:10

MickN wrote:Thanks again Tanada- led to an interesting morning. To sum it up ........

7) UCG technology appears to have come on in leaps and bounds recently partly thanks to American expertise
in directional drilling.
8) UGC produces lots of,if not, good stuff then necessary stuff for the foreseeable future.
9) Some enviromental concerns would be looked into by running test plants.
10) The Government shuts the whole thing down.

.

Whatever can be obtained from deep coal seams will eventually be extracted when other supplies of fossil fuel do in fact decline. That might be years or even decades away but when the time comes any government or environmentalist objections will be swept away by the desperate need for the resource. But in the present these objections serve to preserve the resource just as the restrictions on drilling ANWAR in Alaska kept us from pumping it all out back in the eighties for $25 a barrel.
And of course technologies will continue to improve, perhaps to the point where directional drilling robot bits follow seams as thin as two feet thick and chew the coal up and mix it with injected water that then flushes the black mud back up the bore hole to the surface.
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Re: Underground Coal Gasification Feasibility Report

Unread postby Subjectivist » Sun 17 Dec 2017, 19:52:00

Interesting idea VT, I remember readng that way back in the early 20th century Michigan had a bunch of thin seem coal mines. The last one closed just after WW II because they couldn’t compete with easier to mne coal from Ohio and Kentucky hauled by train to Detroit. If your theory works those old coal seems will get mined out some time with different technology.
II Chronicles 7:14 if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land.
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Re: Underground Coal Gasification Feasibility Report

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Sun 17 Dec 2017, 20:34:06

Subjectivist wrote:Interesting idea VT, I remember readng that way back in the early 20th century Michigan had a bunch of thin seem coal mines. The last one closed just after WW II because they couldn’t compete with easier to mne coal from Ohio and Kentucky hauled by train to Detroit. If your theory works those old coal seems will get mined out some time with different technology.
While I'm having epiphanies I'll throw out one more. To keep from having subsidence issues while mining below cities and towns the drill bit could as it was extracted from each completed tunnel back fill the void created with flow-able fill (a mixture of cement ,sand and water with a lot of air bubbles en-trained in it) that will support the ground above so that the drill bit can move over and take the next pass in turn. I'll even go one further and have the bubbles in the foam be filled with CO2 instead of normal air to sequester the CO2 that will be released when the coal is burned or otherwise processed.
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Re: Underground Coal Gasification Feasibility Report

Unread postby MickN » Mon 18 Dec 2017, 14:19:25

Whatever can be obtained from deep coal seams will eventually be extracted when other supplies of fossil fuel do in fact decline. That might be years or even decades away but when the time comes any government or environmentalist objections will be swept away by the desperate need for the resource. But in the present these objections serve to preserve the resource just as the restrictions on drilling ANWAR in Alaska kept us from pumping it all out back in the eighties for $25 a barrel.
And of course technologies will continue to improve, perhaps to the point where directional drilling robot bits follow seams as thin as two feet thick and chew the coal up and mix it with injected water that then flushes the black mud back up the bore hole to the surface.

VTS- I don't know - i prefer the cowardice of politicians when facing contentious decisions as an explanation to why they stopped it. No need to save it for
later-apparently we have unimaginably large reserves all around the coast (may be industry hype) - enough for many decades- probably see us through to fusion power stations :lol: . Oh and we would pay for it in our local currency, it would reduce dependancy on other suppliers and there would be no need for government funding or subsidies unlike a few projects I can think of . I can't see what's not to like apart from possible environmental considerations which as you rightly say will vanish like the wind when TSHTF.
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Re: Underground Coal Gassification

Unread postby Tanada » Mon 18 Dec 2017, 14:56:14

The kicker is, no matter what hopeful renewable energy advocated might wish fossil fuels remain by far the cheapest and easiest energy supply to exploit and until something happens to fundamentally change that they will stay in favor with the masses.

I heard a guest lecturer this weekend who pointed out that if your total pay and benefits package is $20,000.00/year you are in the top 2.5% of all wage earners on the planet and if your income is $40,000.00/year you are in the top 0.75%

Thus if you live anywhere outside North America or Europe your standard of living is very much dependent on how much you pay for energy and cheap coal remains cheap coal in Asia, Africa and South America where 7 Billion people live on little income.
I should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, write, balance accounts, build a wall, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, pitch manure, program a computer, cook, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
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Re: Underground Coal Gassification

Unread postby Tanada » Mon 18 Dec 2017, 15:11:24

Blah blah blah...Don't you ever get tired of making unsupportable assertions juts to have people throw them back in your face?

You don't like any technology that may extend BAU and delay doom, we get that from every post you make. UCG however is just as real as fracking, or CNG filling stations, or a half dozen other currently in use technologies that you wave away as being impossible, impractical or uneconomic as if your arm waving will impact reality and make it conform to your desires. Bad news, you are not Harry Potter and you do not posses a real Magic Wand so all the hand and arm waving you want to do from now til forever are not going to change the course of history one millimeter from its current path.
I should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, write, balance accounts, build a wall, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, pitch manure, program a computer, cook, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
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Re: Underground Coal Gassification

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Mon 18 Dec 2017, 15:35:14

Tanada wrote:Thus if you live anywhere outside North America or Europe your standard of living is very much dependent on how much you pay for energy and cheap coal remains cheap coal in Asia, Africa and South America where 7 Billion people live on little income.

You're exaggerating though.

Just looking at Asia, for example:

As of April 2015, China was 23rd on the list, and had an average per capita income well over $15,000. So, for all the countries above China in Asia, a large percentage will have access to incomes over $20,000. Taking a sampling of those countries' recent populations, we're talking several hundred million people. Even in China, the percentage will be considerable (say, roughly a third for 2017 as a rough guess), so 800 million people just in China. Even in India, there's likely to be a couple hundred million or so out of it's 1.2 billion plus population to a $20,000+ income. And again, that's just Asia.

I'm not saying this isn't a serious issue for much of the global population, but let's not say it's almost the whole globe please, because it's not.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_A ... per_capita

Hopefully by the time green energy can be built up in much of the world for the billions that can afford it, enough scale will be achieved to make it at or below the price of fossil fuels, and thus able to continue to grow as a percentage of global energy production.

(Unlike the super greens, I'm NOT going to claim that it's cheaper or even close to parity with coal and NG, and then out of the other side of my mouth scream that even more government subsidies are needed for it -- that's lunacy). I'm just trying to make a realistic assessment of where the economics are likely to take us in the next couple/few decades.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: Underground Coal Gassification

Unread postby MickN » Mon 18 Dec 2017, 15:57:21

Sorry P.Starr - I'm new here and technologically useless. I misused the quote facility so it looked as if the entire post was from me when the two bits you
quoted from the post (correctly using the quote facility) were by VTSnowden. My contribution such as it was, was the paragraph commencing VTS. Sorry if any confusion caused :oops:
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Re: Underground Coal Gassification

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Mon 18 Dec 2017, 21:44:02

MickN wrote:Sorry P.Starr - I'm new here and technologically useless. I misused the quote facility so it looked as if the entire post was from me when the two bits you
quoted from the post (correctly using the quote facility) were by VTSnowden. My contribution such as it was, was the paragraph commencing VTS. Sorry if any confusion caused :oops:

Not a problem MickN. Everybody has to start at the beginning and there isn't much of a" How To" guide for navigating the site or one set way to go about things.
When I want to comment on a previous post I log in then hit the quote button on the top right of the post in question. I then highlight and delete as much of that post as possible to focus on the part I want to comment on leaving some .... ..... to show that I have deleted sections. Then I move below the end quote mark (can't put it here as it will mess up this post.) and then make my comment. Then I post it and immediately read it to see if it came out right or needs to be edited. I sometimes have to edit them two or three times due to my fat fingers and limited typing skills.
I hope that is useful to you . By the way welcome to Peak oil. :)
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Re: Underground Coal Gassification

Unread postby Tanada » Mon 22 Oct 2018, 12:14:58

The Supreme Court on Thursday directed the National Accountability Bureau (NAB) to probe Thar underground coal gasification project, a private TV channel reported.

A three-judge bench headed by Chief Justice Mian Saqib Nisar heard the suo motu case regarding Thar coal power project. Prominent scientist and chairman of underground coal gasification project in Thar Dr Samar Mubarakmand appeared for the hearing.

The bench ordered the auditor general to conduct forensic audit of the project and submit a report within 15 days. The Sindh chief secretary was directed to seize the project’s belongings.

“The project’s feasibility report is not clear. It was said that 10,000MW of electricity will be produced for 30 years, but according to experts the project will lower underground water reserves and affect the environment,” court adviser Salman Akram Raja informed the bench. “One committee has said that this is a failed project and more funds should not be allocated for it. Those who approved the project should have also looked into it,” he added.

At this, the chief justice said, “For the first time I have realised what a billion is. Billions of rupees were spent like [dried] leaves fly from a tree. Rs 3.8 billion have already been spent on this project and who is responsible for this? Does Dr Mubarakmand have to pay this money?” he asked.

Where did Dr Mubarakmand’s tall claims go? Should this matter not be sent to the Federal Investigation Agency (FIA) or a fresh investigation be initiated? “Justice Nisar questioned the court adviser. “A lot of noise was created over the project that something not done by any scientist before was done this time,” the chief justice said. “A 100MW project is not generating even 3MW of electricity,” he lamented.

“Pakistan is a poor country and is this how we will continue to waste our money? There are two ways of producing electricity from Thar underground coal gasification project – either through coal or by operating the way plants set-up on the ports do,” the chief justice said.

NAB prosecutor Asghar Haider then submitted a report regarding the projects before the bench. “According to engineers, it is not possible to generate electricity from underground coal gasification,” it said.

Court advisers Salman Akram Raja and Shehzad Elahi also submitted their recommendations, following which the chief justice asked about the positions of the federal and Sindh governments on the matter. The advocate general Sindh informed the court, “The project was entirely funded by the federal government and only the land belongs to the Sindh government.” Dr Muabarakmand then said, “The project did not cause any environmental degradation. An Australian company was also working on an underground gasification project … lawyers cannot judge this project.”


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