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U.S. Becomes Net Oil Exporter

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.

Re: U.S. Becomes Net Oil Exporter

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Thu 13 Dec 2018, 18:25:23

Are you insane? Wait, you are probably an American psychotic who ignores the numbers when they don't suit your reality.

I posted 3 links. I posted the numbers. I posted the years. You didn't dispute any of that or post any numbers of your own.


and you ignored Pops post which linked to the EIA net exports versus net imports. This graph defines a net exporter versus a net importer.


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Re: U.S. Becomes Net Oil Exporter

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Thu 13 Dec 2018, 18:39:37

rockdoc123 wrote:
notube wrote:Are you insane? Wait, you are probably an American psychotic who ignores the numbers when they don't suit your reality.

I posted 3 links. I posted the numbers. I posted the years. You didn't dispute any of that or post any numbers of your own.


and you ignored Pops post which linked to the EIA net exports versus net imports. This graph defines a net exporter versus a net importer.


Image

I second that. Notube, sorry you missed it, but the "data" I was referring to was the import/export data in the chart data which you're ignoring.

And making irrelevant references to consumption (which has nothing to do with imports vs. exports), doesn't change that at all. Nor does claiming anyone who won't ignore the data you don't like is psychotic.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: U.S. Becomes Net Oil Exporter

Unread postby noobtube » Thu 13 Dec 2018, 18:47:01

rockdoc123 wrote:
Are you insane? Wait, you are probably an American psychotic who ignores the numbers when they don't suit your reality.

I posted 3 links. I posted the numbers. I posted the years. You didn't dispute any of that or post any numbers of your own.


and you ignored Pops post which linked to the EIA net exports versus net imports. This graph defines a net exporter versus a net importer.


Image


It's this kind of stuff that hurts the credibility of cornucopians.

That graph says crude oil AND petroleum products. But, the thread title says NET OIL EXPORTER. That graph does not support the thread title.

It reminds me of what Art Berman said about how stupid it is to call the US a net exporter of oil. It is as if the country imported all its cars from Germany, repainted them green and sold them around the world, and claimed it was the top exporter of green cars. It is a misrepresentation of what is actually happening.

All these semantics, word games, and misleading graphs do not change the FACT the USA imports millions of bbls of oil every single day for its own consumption.

The USA is not oil independent.
The USA is not exporting its oil for the consumption of other countries.
The USA is not able to meet per capita demand for oil the way it has in the past and likely never will.
Decades of production and consumption numbers (not pictures) show this.

It is kind of infuriating to think people would actually lie about something as important as this.

It is called a LIE OF OMISSION. You are intentionally misrepresenting and withholding information to paint a narrative that is not reflective of the truth. Very dishonest and I see people pull this stunt all the time to defend the status quo.
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Re: U.S. Becomes Net Oil Exporter

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Thu 13 Dec 2018, 21:28:46

That graph says crude oil AND petroleum products. But, the thread title says NET OIL EXPORTER. That graph does not support the thread title.


The thread title comes from the title of the article Pops lined to in the third paragraph (if you had bothered to read the article) it says

In the week to November 30, however, the weekly U.S. net imports of crude oil and petroleum products were at minus 211,000 bpd—meaning that the U.S. was a net exporter of that amount, according to data from the EIA.


It is pretty clear the meaning as far as I can tell. Part of the US production is converted into saleable products from hydrocarbons and exported and part of the imports are usable products produced from hydrocarbons. The net export/import balance is comparing apples to apples. Almost nobody in the world consumes oil directly that is not processed. Hence in a country like the US which has large refining capacity, a comparison of crude production and consumption of end products is pretty meaningless.

The USA is not exporting its oil for the consumption of other countries.


The US has been exporting unrefined crude to Canada for many years and after 2016 began exporting crude to China to the tune of 300Kbopd. In June of 2018 the US was exporting a total of 3,000 K bopd of crude.
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Re: U.S. Becomes Net Oil Exporter

Unread postby StarvingLion » Thu 13 Dec 2018, 21:31:36

Shale Slop and renewable junk is bankrupting GE, GM, F, etc etc etc...
Cog's brain was in a jar left open and maggots ate it.
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Re: U.S. Becomes Net Oil Exporter

Unread postby Pops » Thu 13 Dec 2018, 22:21:58

It's this kind of stuff that hurts the credibility of cornucopians.

Don't know about cornies but what hurts your credibility is not reading the post or the thread and failing to understand what you do read, not to mention your juvenile ad homs and silly big fonts.

This thread is not about consumption, it's about imports/exports.

13 years ago (11/4/05) the US imported —net— 14,370 mb/d

Last week of November, 2018 the US imported -211mb/d

The reason to measure total (crude and product) is we only imported 10Mb/d of crude in 2005 but we were also importing almost 5Mb/d of finished product.
Link

Whether it fits your preconceived notions or not, this is a big milepost.

--
The USA is not oil independent.
didn't say it was

The USA is not exporting its oil for the consumption of other countries.
actually it is:

Image

The USA is not able to meet per capita demand for oil the way it has in the past and likely never will.

LOL, the US has been an importer since the the '40s or 50's
here are a couple more balloon poppers:
The US is extracting more than it ever did in the past and the growth rate is probably unprecedented.
The US will close the year as the largest crude producer in the world.
And eia says that amount will continue to increase, all things equal, 2mb/d next year.

Image

.
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Re: U.S. Becomes Net Oil Exporter

Unread postby Pops » Thu 13 Dec 2018, 22:25:14

LOL, I've probably posted more "survivalist" blather and have more wheat berries in the basement than anyone here but posting facts about oil production makes me a cornie.
The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves -- in their separate, and individual capacities.
-- Abraham Lincoln, Fragment on Government (July 1, 1854)
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Re: U.S. Becomes Net Oil Exporter

Unread postby marmico » Fri 14 Dec 2018, 04:33:32

That graph says crude oil AND petroleum products. But, the thread title says NET OIL EXPORTER. That graph does not support the thread title.

That is a fair statement. On a crude oil only basis the US is a net importer of ~6 million barrels per day.
https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafH ... rntus2&f=m

Net crude oil imports can be reduced to ~3 million barrels per day if US refineries reduce throughput to process only enough petroleum products for domestic consumption and cease exports. Why would you want to disrupt the existing processing system?

The hullaballoo was just a one week anomaly. See Table 1, Line 33 of the The US Petroleum Balance Sheet, Week Ending 12/7/2018 for proof of same.
https://www.eia.gov/petroleum/supply/we ... table1.pdf

The US is still a net importer of crude oil and petroleum products of ~2 million barrels per day.
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Re: U.S. Becomes Net Oil Exporter

Unread postby Subjectivist » Fri 14 Dec 2018, 08:09:07

noobtube wrote:
rockdoc123 wrote:
Are you insane? Wait, you are probably an American psychotic who ignores the numbers when they don't suit your reality.

I posted 3 links. I posted the numbers. I posted the years. You didn't dispute any of that or post any numbers of your own.


and you ignored Pops post which linked to the EIA net exports versus net imports. This graph defines a net exporter versus a net importer.


Image


It's this kind of stuff that hurts the credibility of cornucopians.

That graph says crude oil AND petroleum products. But, the thread title says NET OIL EXPORTER. That graph does not support the thread title.

It reminds me of what Art Berman said about how stupid it is to call the US a net exporter of oil. It is as if the country imported all its cars from Germany, repainted them green and sold them around the world, and claimed it was the top exporter of green cars. It is a misrepresentation of what is actually happening.

All these semantics, word games, and misleading graphs do not change the FACT the USA imports millions of bbls of oil every single day for its own consumption.

The USA is not oil independent.
The USA is not exporting its oil for the consumption of other countries.
The USA is not able to meet per capita demand for oil the way it has in the past and likely never will.
Decades of production and consumption numbers (not pictures) show this.

It is kind of infuriating to think people would actually lie about something as important as this.

It is called a LIE OF OMISSION. You are intentionally misrepresenting and withholding information to paint a narrative that is not reflective of the truth. Very dishonest and I see people pull this stunt all the time to defend the status quo.


Reality laughs at your protests and goes right on being real.
II Chronicles 7:14 if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land.
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Re: U.S. Becomes Net Oil Exporter

Unread postby noobtube » Fri 14 Dec 2018, 10:15:51

Subjectivist wrote:
noobtube wrote:
rockdoc123 wrote:
Are you insane? Wait, you are probably an American psychotic who ignores the numbers when they don't suit your reality.

I posted 3 links. I posted the numbers. I posted the years. You didn't dispute any of that or post any numbers of your own.


and you ignored Pops post which linked to the EIA net exports versus net imports. This graph defines a net exporter versus a net importer.


Image


It's this kind of stuff that hurts the credibility of cornucopians.

That graph says crude oil AND petroleum products. But, the thread title says NET OIL EXPORTER. That graph does not support the thread title.

It reminds me of what Art Berman said about how stupid it is to call the US a net exporter of oil. It is as if the country imported all its cars from Germany, repainted them green and sold them around the world, and claimed it was the top exporter of green cars. It is a misrepresentation of what is actually happening.

All these semantics, word games, and misleading graphs do not change the FACT the USA imports millions of bbls of oil every single day for its own consumption.

The USA is not oil independent.
The USA is not exporting its oil for the consumption of other countries.
The USA is not able to meet per capita demand for oil the way it has in the past and likely never will.
Decades of production and consumption numbers (not pictures) show this.

It is kind of infuriating to think people would actually lie about something as important as this.

It is called a LIE OF OMISSION. You are intentionally misrepresenting and withholding information to paint a narrative that is not reflective of the truth. Very dishonest and I see people pull this stunt all the time to defend the status quo.


Reality laughs at your protests and goes right on being real.


Oh. So you get to decide what reality is. No facts, no data, no numbers, no historical records, just your baseless opinion.

I think reality doesn't give a flying crap about you or your attitude. How about that? It figures someone like you would push this nonsense.
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Re: U.S. Becomes Net Oil Exporter

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Fri 14 Dec 2018, 12:08:11

Oh. So you get to decide what reality is. No facts, no data, no numbers, no historical records, just your baseless opinion.


not sure if you were dropped on your head as a child or what...but the graph that has been posted several times is based on the reality. That is the data regarding exports versus imports, you can go to that page and choose to download the data rather than the graph. You can get you knickers in a twist over the title of the thread if you want but as I said this was the title given in the actual news article Pops linked to which also clarified they were talking about petroleum and products which of course they would because that is what is tracked closely.

If you are still whining about the title then take it up with the author of the press piece.
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Re: U.S. Becomes Net Oil Exporter

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Fri 14 Dec 2018, 16:04:47

Gotta obfuscate, gotta do the bidding of your Master. Time to crap up this thread once again.


Apparently you are striving to give morons a good name. The only one who "crapped up" this thread was you, which you do each and every time you visit any thread. You have nothing to offer but unwarranted personal attacks. Not sure why the mods put up with it.

Please go somewhere else, I'm sure I'm not the only one who would appreciate that.
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Re: U.S. Becomes Net Oil Exporter

Unread postby onlooker » Fri 14 Dec 2018, 17:53:11

Money/currency is what feeds, clothes, and houses 7.4 billion people on this planet.

That is what the average person on the street woulc say. Surely, we are a bit more sophisticated on this site :razz:
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Re: U.S. Becomes Net Oil Exporter

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Fri 14 Dec 2018, 19:10:16

pstarr....apparently you can't read...what I said was you have nothing to offer but insults and personal attacks.

The insults I dole out are what my lawyer friends would refer to as "fair comment" and they always are accompanied with the rationale behind those claims and usually with actual data and a discussion of why the individual has said something I deem to come from someone "dumb as a donkey's willy".

You on the other hand simply show up, offer absolutely nothing but lame random insults and seem to be pleased with that. It isn't clever.

If you think anyone here is impressed with that behavior then you are truly competing for the slowest kid in the class award. Lets save you some time...you won that award hands down years ago.

If you actually want to argue that the EIA data on petroleum imports and exports are wrong then you need to reference them and say why they need to be corrected. Pop's original post was about the EIA data showing that the US was a net exporter at some point backed up by EIA data. If you don't believe the EIA data then you need to show everyone where the real data is (hint: it doesn't exist as most places reference the same dataset). Otherwise your drama queen posturing is pretty pointless, especially since you have so little credibility here.

In other words grow up.
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Re: U.S. Becomes Net Oil Exporter

Unread postby asg70 » Sun 16 Dec 2018, 12:03:02

pstarr wrote:The many nations we have ruined for our suburban driving idiocy.


And yet again Pstarr shows his bias-card. This is the root cause of your analysis always being skewed. Just simple, old fashioned, raw, hatred.

Look, I can't keep hicks from rolling coal onto Prius drivers and you can't keep yuppies from enjoying their Starbucks swilling McMansionite lifestyles. There are always going to be groups of people living a lifestyle that other groups of people abhor. Just deal with it because the world is not going to personally intervene on your behalf to strike down those you hate and leave you last man standing.

Image

Oh, and as vapid as the life of a suburban yuppie may be, I don't see how some holier than thou stoner burnout in the redwood forest banging out 20K+ ad homs on a doomer forum for over a decade is any more virtuous. Show me a hardcore doomer keyboard warrior and I'll show you someone suffering from terminal delusions of grandeur.

As consumerist as they may be, at least yuppies have highly educated professional jobs. Lawyers, surgeons, engineers. On a day to day basis what exactly are you contributing to society besides heaping contempt on those who don't live the way you deem virtuous? So stop throwing stones in a glass house.

HALL OF SHAME:
-Short welched on a bet and should be shunned.
-Frequent-flyers should not cry crocodile-tears over climate-change.
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Re: U.S. Becomes Net Oil Exporter

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Sun 16 Dec 2018, 12:43:30

As pointed out before all the focus on oil production/import/export with respect to the US consumer seems strange and misguided. The US consumer does not produce/export/import oil and, most important, does not CONSUME oil. The life of US consumers is dominated by the production/import/export of products refined from oil. Mixing oil stats in with refinery stats seems to only confuse the conversation...at least with the world of US consumers.

For instance, has anyone bothered to find a chart showing the history of refinery product consumption by the US? Or a chart of US refinery product imports? Or a chart of US refinery product exports? Let's just say historical charts since the end of WWII. That would seem to provide a good base for any debate about the relationship between US consumers and oil.

A question: what does that "Weekly Net Chart" really show: is it just netting oil? Or is it netting the oil refined in the US whose products are exported? Is it possible refinery products are being double counted? Remember as US oil production increased and oil imports decreased the country transitioned from being an insignificant product exporter to the largest refinery product exporter on the planet. So what is that chart really implying?

OTOH if one wants to discuss the impact of US oil production/imports/exports on our petroleum industry that would be another interesting discussion. But very different then one discussing US consumers IMHO.
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