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Things aren't as bad as most people think

Discuss research and forecasts regarding hydrocarbon depletion.

Re: Things aren't as bad as most people think

Unread postby Newfie » Mon 02 Sep 2019, 07:59:31

asg70 wrote:I'm all for:

a) rolling back citizen's united

and

b) fostering the development of 3rd parties

Until then, the system is what it is.


Here is one of my ideas.

Choose 7 Presidential candidates at random from the pool of unindited ex governors under 70. They can pick running mates from the same pool. Allow 2 months for a election, too 3 go to a run-off within 2 months.

That would do a lot to screw up the cash flow, too many to bribe up front, not enough time to bribe as effectively in the process.

It also cuts the parties out of the process, largely neutered them. Candidates are not beholden to the party elites.

Doubt it would ever happen, but it would be an improvement over what we now have.
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Re: Things aren't as bad as most people think

Unread postby Cog » Tue 03 Sep 2019, 13:25:25

Newfie wrote:
Cog wrote:Underneath all of this talk about mitigation are petty tyrants who just can't wait to control other people's lives.


And running it all are commercial tyrants who DO control other people’s lives.

I have to note that in most cases folks have ceded that control and they have the power to take it back.

So do you have titular control or freedom if you have ceded it to big business?

The guess what I’m arguing for is that people wake up and regain control of their lives, their children’s future. The nutncases in charge are no better than Joe6 pack, and maybe we’ll be worse.

My other alternative would be to change the voting age to be between 10 and 15, before we seem to loose our collective minds. :badgrin:


So kids, who are not adult enough to purchase a gun, buy smokes, or alcohol, are suddenly mature enough to cast a vote? I doubt it.
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Re: Things aren't as bad as most people think

Unread postby Newfie » Tue 03 Sep 2019, 14:20:38

Well I was being facetious. Although sometimes kids do seem to have more common sense and a better grasp of the future than we adults. A better sense of balance.

Hard to see how they could muck it up more than we have.
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Re: Things aren't as bad as most people think

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Tue 03 Sep 2019, 16:30:53

Newfie wrote:Well I was being facetious. Although sometimes kids do seem to have more common sense and a better grasp of the future than we adults. A better sense of balance.

Hard to see how they could muck it up more than we have.

Well, certainly kids (and adults under 30 or so) are much more flexible and adaptable and have a better sense of how to do "what's new" re tech.

By the time I became reasonably well "established" in the corporate job heirarchy at age 31 or so, I'd already lost much of my technical age re youth, speed, endurance, and enthusiasm. It's the nature of the world.

What dawned on me though, was how strong teams of both younger and older folks, balancing experience, business savvy, and wisdom, and speed, energy, and tech. understanding can be -- if the strengths of the various folks are allowed to flourish instead of trying to cram everyone into the same mediocre, party line, mold.

...

And as I watch newer corporations in tech age and grow -- the end results look about the same.

Microsoft is a relatively youthful IBM, but on its way to obsolescence. Intel is no longer all that dominant and is struggling to lead in various areas. Even the legendary Google is showing all too many signs of the onset of corporate middle age.

Whether it's inherent in our evolution or just the way the system is -- we NEED the young and the old, and the young to replace the old. Many people are excited for the possibility of long life extension, where normal human lifespans of hundreds or even thousands of years are possible. While this would be happy news for the elderly in the short term, it would be an absolute social and ecological disaster for humanity and planet earth's biosphere, IMO. (Even considering the current mess).
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: Things aren't as bad as most people think

Unread postby Newfie » Tue 03 Sep 2019, 16:57:20

I often think about the military and age. What’s the average age of a fighter pilot? Destroyer commander? Lots of relative young folks with big jobs.

Yes, as we get old we ossify, except me! :-D
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Re: Things aren't as bad as most people think

Unread postby ralfy » Wed 04 Sep 2019, 10:52:20

Reminds of Al Bartlett's example concerning bacteria in a bottle:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5OYmRyfXBY
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Re: Things aren't as bad as most people think

Unread postby derhundistlos » Thu 05 Sep 2019, 05:47:44

outcast: "And Trump is NOT the entire GOP, now is he?"

Trump and the Republican party are synonymous. This is the most obvious fact imaginable:

This reality is nicely encapsulated in a Gallup poll. Looking at postwar presidential approval ratings among each president’s own party at their 500th day in office, Trump boasts the highest rating after George W. Bush post-9/11; however, without the bump in support Bush gained from the extraordinary circumstances of 9/11, Trump would enjoy more support from his party at Day 500 than any other president since World War II. That’s pretty astonishing.

In every state important to the 2020 race, Mr. Trump and his lieutenants are in firm control of the Republican electoral machinery. It is, in every institutional sense, Mr. Trump’s party.
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Re: Things aren't as bad as most people think

Unread postby Ibon » Thu 05 Sep 2019, 15:50:32

derhundistlos wrote:In every state important to the 2020 race, Mr. Trump and his lieutenants are in firm control of the Republican electoral machinery. It is, in every institutional sense, Mr. Trump’s party.


Interesting. This very fact about Hillary Clinton and her control of the Democratic electoral machinery is an important reason why she became the candidate and also why in the end she lost.
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Re: Things aren't as bad as most people think

Unread postby derhundistlos » Fri 06 Sep 2019, 05:09:13

What I can't understand is why is Trump doing everything within his power to overturn and weaken EVERY hard-fought environmental act and law to ensure the American public breathes clean air and drinks clean water. To add insult to injury, for the first time in history, an American president is reducing the size of America's park system by selling off pristine wilderness-the last of its kind-to the highest bidder (no doubt Republican president and founder of America's park system, Teddy Roosevelt, is turning over in his grave). Next on the Trump environmental chopping block is the highly successful Endangered Species Act.

Is this the sort of example we want the world to emulate? It's no coincidence the Amazon basin is on fire, and it's not just Brazil. In Colombia, the forests are being illegally burned, chainsawed, and bulldozed at rates never before experienced. It's as if the bad guys have been given the green light to exploit the world's last remaining forests and brother are they.

Trump and now Bolsonaro. I am still incredulous that two destructive and hateful humans hold the highest positions of power in two powerful nations. For me, this is proof positive mankind has reached its expiration point. Instead of advancing toward a high state of consciousness, we are regressing. This is not a flippant remark, but a sad and honest recognition that we are a failed species. An alien summary of homo sapien sapien:
Entirely unique and extinct life form; clever, although hopelessly selfish, short-sighted, entirely lacking in wisdom, and a pernicious destroyer of all other life forms.

We are truly an incurably stupid species. Little do people understand that more than 50% of all pharmaceutical medication is derived from a living organism. Childhood leukemia USED to be a dreaded and deadly disease with little hope of survival beyond two years. Then an inconspicuous plant was discovered in Madagascar named the Rosey periwinkle from which a "miracle" medication was developed that rendered childhood leukemia a curable disease- what used to be a death sentence is now a normal life.
Japanese scientists discovered a unique soil fungus found on only one deserted and tiny Japanese island from which the most successful anti-parasitic drug was created-Ivermectin. Not only does Ivermectin kill ALL internal (worms, flukes, amoebas, etc.) AND external parasites (mites, lice, fleas, mange, etc.) but does so with virtually NO toxicity. This drug is so successful that African river blindness disease is now virtually eliminated.

Yet, we have screened just 1%- let me repeat just ONE PERCENT, of mother nature's pharmacological wonders. How do we respond? By destroying ecosystems so damn rapidly that thousands of species are being lost before becoming known to science. No doubt the cure for all cancers, AIDS and other disease scourges exist in nature, but we will never know unless we stop the insanity RIGHT FUCKING NOW.

I can't imagine a government doing everything possible to destroy the earth's life support system, but I can imagine Trump paying holy hell when karma comes a knocking on his door.
Alone among God’s primates, Man kills for sport and lust and greed. If he's permitted to breed in great numbers, he'll make a desert of his home & yours. For he hath becometh death, the great Destroyer of worlds. ~The Budha~

The good Earth- we could have saved it, but we were too damn cheap & lazy ~K. Vonnegut~
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Re: Things aren't as bad as most people think

Unread postby Ibon » Fri 06 Sep 2019, 10:37:57

Der Hund ist Los,

Trump or Bolsonaro records on the environment are pretty dismal. Let's not forget though that they were duly elected. So they didn't rise in a vacuum and they represent one of the dominant forces in the collective.

Attention must be put not on the demagoguery of these leaders but on the citizenry that permits these leaders to rise in the first place.

Doesn't that make sense?

These characters get elected after all.
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Re: Things aren't as bad as most people think

Unread postby yellowcanoe » Fri 06 Sep 2019, 11:05:23

derhundistlos wrote:What I can't understand is why is Trump doing everything within his power to overturn and weaken EVERY hard-fought environmental act and law to ensure the American public breathes clean air and drinks clean water.


I expect to see more of this world wide as politicians find it harder and harder to maintain economic growth.
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Re: Things aren't as bad as most people think

Unread postby Ibon » Fri 06 Sep 2019, 11:58:14

yellowcanoe wrote:
derhundistlos wrote:What I can't understand is why is Trump doing everything within his power to overturn and weaken EVERY hard-fought environmental act and law to ensure the American public breathes clean air and drinks clean water.


I expect to see more of this world wide as politicians find it harder and harder to maintain economic growth.


Growth over steady state will lead to desperate measures. Citizens will continue to put these leaders who have egregious track records on the environment into powerful positions.

The vast majority of the planets citizenry wants economic growth. They also want a clean and healthy climate.

They haven't yet figured out the cognizant dissonance of these two wishes.

Any other force besides the consequences of this ignorance on the horizon to change course? I don't see it.

Does it hurt yet?
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Re: Things aren't as bad as most people think

Unread postby jedrider » Fri 06 Sep 2019, 12:39:57

derhundistlos wrote:I can't imagine a government doing everything possible to destroy the earth's life support system, but I can imagine Trump paying holy hell when karma comes a knocking on his door.


Yes, that is the results of hyper-partisan politics. If liberals said they don't care about the environment, that would be the only way to get hyper-partisans on board.
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Re: Things aren't as bad as most people think

Unread postby Newfie » Fri 06 Sep 2019, 14:40:47

yellowcanoe wrote:
derhundistlos wrote:What I can't understand is why is Trump doing everything within his power to overturn and weaken EVERY hard-fought environmental act and law to ensure the American public breathes clean air and drinks clean water.


I expect to see more of this world wide as politicians find it harder and harder to maintain economic growth.


I suspect you are correct. Must sustain growth at any cost.
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Re: Things aren't as bad as most people think

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Fri 06 Sep 2019, 16:21:57

derhundistlos wrote:outcast: "And Trump is NOT the entire GOP, now is he?"

Trump and the Republican party are synonymous.

Thanks for showing how biased your leftist act is. While you're at it, why not also claim that only the right is biased or partisan in any way?

For example, why not pretend that one cherry picked Gallup poll encapsulates the entire GOP party over time? :roll:

That's right up there with leftist tropes like "the GOP is all a bunch of racists", etc.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: Things aren't as bad as most people think

Unread postby GHung » Fri 06 Sep 2019, 18:06:40

Outcast_Searcher wrote:
derhundistlos wrote:outcast: "And Trump is NOT the entire GOP, now is he?"

Trump and the Republican party are synonymous.

Thanks for showing how biased your leftist act is. While you're at it, why not also claim that only the right is biased or partisan in any way?

...........


I would say that's a pretty reasonable conclusion considering how very few Republicans are willing to risk Trump's wrath. Even those who trashed Trump, calling him all sorts of names including "crazy" during the 2016 campaign, have spent the last three years trying to walk back what they said (e.g. Lyndsey Graham). The list is long and includes many Republicans I used to have a lot of respect for.
One good thing Trump has done is to expose those who will put position and power above Country. Maybe Trump and the Republican Party aren't synonymous in your eyes, but anyone has to admit he has the Republicans by the balls. What a weak corrupted bunch we have witnessed since his 'election'.
That the best you can do is accuse those who state the obvious of being "biased and leftist" screams that you have no defense at all. The man is provably pathological and those who defend him are at the very least culpable.
Blessed are the Meek, for they shall inherit nothing but their Souls. - Anonymous Ghung Person
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Re: Things aren't as bad as most people think

Unread postby Ibon » Fri 06 Sep 2019, 18:47:30

GHung wrote:
Outcast_Searcher wrote:
derhundistlos wrote:outcast: "And Trump is NOT the entire GOP, now is he?"

Trump and the Republican party are synonymous.

Thanks for showing how biased your leftist act is. While you're at it, why not also claim that only the right is biased or partisan in any way?

...........


I would say that's a pretty reasonable conclusion considering how very few Republicans are willing to risk Trump's wrath. Even those who trashed Trump, calling him all sorts of names including "crazy" during the 2016 campaign, have spent the last three years trying to walk back what they said (e.g. Lyndsey Graham). The list is long and includes many Republicans I used to have a lot of respect for.
One good thing Trump has done is to expose those who will put position and power above Country. Maybe Trump and the Republican Party aren't synonymous in your eyes, but anyone has to admit he has the Republicans by the balls. What a weak corrupted bunch we have witnessed since his 'election'.
That the best you can do is accuse those who state the obvious of being "biased and leftist" screams that you have no defense at all. The man is provably pathological and those who defend him are at the very least culpable.


Outcast, I have to agree with Ghung on this. To point out how Trump has the Republican party by the balls is not biased and leftist.
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Re: Things aren't as bad as most people think

Unread postby derhundistlos » Sat 07 Sep 2019, 03:10:27

Outcast: "That's right up there with leftist tropes like "the GOP is all a bunch of racists", etc."

Is this what accounts for the Republican party's anemic level of support among US minority groups?

You will find this of interest:

WASHINGTON (JTA) — American Jews overwhelmingly disapprove of President Donald Trump in just about every area, according to an American Jewish Committee poll. Trump’s favorable/unfavorable numbers are far and away the worst for any president since Committee polling began in 1960.

The survey also shows a sharp uptick in concerns about anti-Semitism in the United States, which may be a reflection of the increased influence of the “alt-right” since Trump’s election.

Of respondents in the poll posted Wednesday by the AJC, 77 percent said they viewed Trump’s job performance unfavorably and 21 percent said they viewed him favorably. Those are considerably worse numbers for the president than in the general population.

Asked for specifics, respondents scored Trump negatively across the board: 73 to 27 unfavorable to favorable on national security; 69-30 on terrorism; 75-23 on U.S.-Russia relations; 71-25 on handling the relationship with NATO and the trans-Atlantic alliance; 77-20 on race relations; 76-23 on immigration; and 68-26 on the Iran nuclear issue. He came out best on U.S.-Israel relations, though still unfavorable: 54-40.

Jews continue to identify more as liberal and as Democrat than not. Among respondents, 54 percent said they were liberal, 22 percent classified themselves as moderate, and 22 percent said they were conservative. Party wise, 54 percent said they were Democrats, 15 percent said they were Republicans and 20 percent, Independent.
Alone among God’s primates, Man kills for sport and lust and greed. If he's permitted to breed in great numbers, he'll make a desert of his home & yours. For he hath becometh death, the great Destroyer of worlds. ~The Budha~

The good Earth- we could have saved it, but we were too damn cheap & lazy ~K. Vonnegut~
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Re: Things aren't as bad as most people think

Unread postby asg70 » Sat 07 Sep 2019, 15:43:07

Ibon wrote:Outcast, I have to agree with Ghung on this. To point out how Trump has the Republican party by the balls is not biased and leftist.


Party tribalism knows no bounds. Remember the caricature of Alex P Keaton from Family Ties shamelessly hanging a Nixon poster on his wall despite the shadow of Watergate not being that far in the past?

Image
Image

That was done in order to illustrate the absurdity of it all, since there's no politician universally held in lower regard than Nixon due to Watergate.

But that's not far from the truth, really, as far as how political zealots think. No amount of disgrace is enough to shake people like this from their sense of loyalty to the party and by extension to all who affiliate with it. Trump also secured much of his support during the primaries on the basis of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend". The more Trump attacked Hillary (lock her up, etc...) the more the republicans felt he was an ally.

Bottom line is that party loyalists are poor stewards of democracy insofar as they place loyalty to party above protecting the country from tyranny and incompetence (and Trump is some mixture of both).

BOLD PREDICTIONS
-Billions are on the verge of starvation as the lockdown continues. (yoshua, 5/20/20)

HALL OF SHAME:
-Short welched on a bet and should be shunned.
-Frequent-flyers should not cry crocodile-tears over climate-change.
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Re: Things aren't as bad as most people think

Unread postby derhundistlos » Sun 08 Sep 2019, 01:29:56

Asg70-

My, so many stereotypes and preconceived notions.

Without Watergate President Nixon would have been ranked as an excellent president. For example, regardless of the reason, Nixon created the Environmental Protection Agency. He achieved a number of foreign policy firsts in terms of relations with China, and he did his level best to end the war in Vietnam without incurring disgrace.

Although I am accused by some on the other end of the political spectrum of being nothing short of a communist, would a communist vote Nixon in '72 and Bush in '88? Me no think so.

It's not "party tribalism" to state factual circumstances. I don't know why you constantly point the finger of criticism at me unless your definition of party tribalism exists only when replying to a Republican comment. Instead, I should remain silent and allow any statement, regardless of how outrageous it may be? Sorry, for me that's a no go. I'll have to live with the proud party tribalist label. [smilie=new_rainfro.gif]
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The good Earth- we could have saved it, but we were too damn cheap & lazy ~K. Vonnegut~
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