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THE Venezuela Thread pt 5 (merged)

A forum for discussion of regional topics including oil depletion but also government, society, and the future.

Re: Oil Has Cursed Venezuela

Unread postby ralfy » Sat 17 Feb 2018, 00:51:50

The irony with a competitive capitalist system is that it actually requires growing prosperity across the board. That's because the relatively few who are rich and are competing with each other can only become richer if more people earn, borrow, and spend.
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Re: Oil Has Cursed Venezuela

Unread postby onlooker » Sat 17 Feb 2018, 07:25:32

Yes Kaiser, i agree the expediency of representing tangible goods via money or whatever is obvious. So, we were destined to have some form of this representation, in the same way we were destined to have fire or the wheel etc.
The problem lies not in money per say, but in the greed and in the totally commercialized nature of our societies. When, people forget about sharing and caring and the only metric to attain survival and prosperity is the obtaining of money then you have by definition societies who overvalue the individual and undervalue common kinship and mutual assistance. And then you have because of greed and power lust, special classes of people intent on subjugating the rest into a perpetual lower position relative to them. For resources are limited and so some can have more, only if others have less. So I am not enamored by the concept of money. To me it is just an expedient tool to facilitate economics in a society. Nor am I enamored by the sanctity of life as expressed by religions. I am enamored by a sense of justice and a certain level of equality throughout society. When societies lose that sense of justice and are very unequal then something greater than lives are undervalued, human dignity is undervalued. You can cite anthropology call you want but we have progressed beyond simple primate interactions. We have culture like arts and music, we have sublime emotions like love, we have a conscience , empathy and compassion which can guide us to seek harmony and justice among each other. Or we can have societies in the grip of greed and selfishness attuned only to immediate tangible gratification. That is where the US has drifted towards. And to our detriment as witnessed by what appears to be unhappy lives in contrast to some in poorer countries who seem to live happier lives. Buddha said forsake your pleasures and you shall find peace.
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Re: Oil Has Cursed Venezuela

Unread postby Cog » Sat 17 Feb 2018, 07:55:49

Claiming you are poor because someone else is rich lacks foundation.
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Re: Oil Has Cursed Venezuela

Unread postby asg70 » Sat 17 Feb 2018, 08:14:47

onlooker wrote:The problem is it works actually for a relatively few people on this planet.


I think you'll find that in all societies (including soviet russia, where the Politburo were the "very few") all the way back to neolithic times that it's been this way. Just, ya know, deal with it.

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Re: Oil Has Cursed Venezuela

Unread postby onlooker » Sat 17 Feb 2018, 08:25:23

z0zn0.jpg
asg70 wrote:
onlooker wrote:The problem is it works actually for a relatively few people on this planet.


I think you'll find that in all societies (including soviet russia, where the Politburo were the "very few") all the way back to neolithic times that it's been this way. Just, ya know, deal with it.

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Re: Oil Has Cursed Venezuela

Unread postby evilgenius » Sat 17 Feb 2018, 11:37:00

asg70 wrote:It's a nature vs. nurture debate. Simply not everyone is cut out to be an entrepreneur. For instance, think of the wage-gap between men and women. A large part of that is due to different sets of priorities men and women tend to have. Men don't have to worry as much about work-life balance. Women try to squeeze having a family in someplace, and that means not being chained to your desk 60-80 hours a week. But that's what it takes to create a startup like Facebook. If you reorder education to encourage that sort of obsessive-compulsive like drive that it takes to be an entrpreneur then what is that going to do to what's left of a family unit that's already in disarray?


Creating a startup like Facebook is an extreme example, don't you think? If you consider what success means to people in ordinary life I think you will have to admit that it occurs more randomly than that. Goals are achievable, but there is always a cost for achieving them. A person can overcome the setbacks and the ordeals, but at what cost? Oughtn't the definition of success to have something to do with understanding whether those costs are worth it? I'm not going to discount what you are saying about the difficulties of achieving work/life balance and how they especially pertain to women, except to say that men miss out when they don't engage in a similar manner. The people they are supposed to be doing what they are doing those hours for could use a little more of them, perhaps, and not their money so much. Many of them don't, and the world is poorer for it.

For many people the standard they reach is the ability to consistently pay their bills every month. If you think about it, that is a great achievement. They learn that much from their education. The rich can hand down greater in the way that they set up private schools to teach their kids, but at least the public educational system can claim this victory. They can keep things going. Fewer people save. Some people get a handle on the use of debt. A great many people get caught up in debt in an attempt to do so because the only way they had to learn was by using trial and error. Of those people who learn what a great thing debt can be, a few of them dream. Sometimes their dreams are an expression of their struggles. Sometimes they are an attempt to understand themselves. Often people stop at the first dream they have, and define themselves according to whether or not they were able to see it happen. Other people realize that a dream can be a thing that belongs to a particular place in space and time, a construct of where they are coming from and where they are going. They go through life fulfilling them, or not. Each dream comes with its own costs, and, maybe, they have learned enough to evaluate whether they should pay those costs.

One thing which I think is sorely lacking from education is the knowledge of how to lose graciously. Accepting loss, not fixating upon it, is how one starts over. Starting over is how one moves from dream to dream. Accepting loss is how one recovers from the random nature of success, how one can try just as hard as anyone else and still fail. Ultimately, it is how one recognizes change within themselves, how the journey itself can change them, if they let it.

The world today is full of conspiracy theories. Many of those are spun up by groups of people who cannot 'win' unless they are able to manipulate large numbers of people to behave a certain way. It's not much different than how marketing works, only that there is an element of nostalgic reticence to accept loss rather than a buying into a self-image commensurate with the purchase of a product. The threads of nationalism and jingoism that these machinations(to prohibit the acceptance of loss) produce can, however, be dangerous. Deeper still, are these aggregations that are like clots in the wind. They are formed of enough thought so as not to be chaotic, but lack any sort of central focus. People converge around what they think are common ideals, but soon find there is enough difference between one and the other's interpretation of those ideals that they usually find themselves at odds with each other. Many times, when a person religiously pursues one of these ideas they even find that they are at odds with themselves.
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Re: THE Venezuela Thread pt 4 (merged)

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Fri 23 Feb 2018, 15:20:23

now it isn't just lack of investment in the oil industry that is destroying it, oil workers are unable to do their jobs due to lack of food

Venezuela, a socialist autocracy that once was South America’s most prosperous nation, is suffering a collapse almost without precedent, its gross domestic product dropping 40 percent since 2013. Petroleos de Venezuela SA (PDVSA), the government oil company and economic linchpin, has fallen into chaos as leaders replaced expert managers with loyalists, padded the payroll and channeled revenue to social programs — and to epic corruption. Production fell by half in the past 16 years. Daily output dropped to 1.77 million barrels in January from a peak of 3.34 million in 2001.
Much of the decline is due to lack of money for maintenance and exploration. Recently, though, hunger is also to blame. A survey by three Venezuelan universities released Wednesday found that that more than 64 percent of residents lost weight in 2017, on average 25 pounds. More than 61 percent of respondents said they had gone to bed hungry over the past three months.

Ivan Freitas, a PDVSA union leader and critic of President Nicolas Maduro’s regime, said Wednesday that in Zulia State 12 malnourished workers collapsed in November and December and had to be taken off drilling platforms for treatment. More go down each day, he said.
Alirio Villasmil, a diver, does underwater maintenance on ships transporting oil in Lake Maracaibo, in western Venezuela. He said in an interview that three people he supervises fainted while working, and he had to rush them from rig platforms to the hospital. He has sent home others too weak to dive.
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Venezuela’s Petro: Stable Coin For Crypto-Economy Or Illegal

Unread postby AdamB » Sun 25 Feb 2018, 19:24:05


Starting in late 2017 Venezuela’s President Nikolas Maduro began expanding heavily into media space in an attempt to promote a new payment instrument– the government-issued cryptocurrency Petro. On Feb. 20 the pre-sale of Petro was launched and has already raised $735 mln, according to Maduro’s Twitter. Total amount of PTR issued for sale is 100 mln and is worth $6 bln. The pre-sale will end on March 19. The following questions are raised by this controversial project: what is Petro in an economic context and what would be its possible real use in the global economy? Is it a cryptocurrency, a stable coin, oil futures, new government debt instrument or something else? What is its possible economic impact? Which legal issues could follow? image courtesy of CoinTelegraph Having carefully studied the Petro white paper and other data available, we present below the results of the


Venezuela’s Petro: Stable Coin For Crypto-Economy Or Illegal Oil Futures?
Peak oil in 2020: And here is why: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b3ttqYDwF0
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Venezuelan crisis: All the oil, but no food

Unread postby AdamB » Sun 04 Mar 2018, 21:01:50



Alejandro Manuel Mago Coraspe is an inmate at the Vista Hermosa prison in Bolivar, a city in northern Venezuela. The 41-year-old is serving a nine-month sentence for vehicle theft. He was hospitalised recently for complications from food poisoning. Coraspe was so hungry that he ate dead rats found in the prison's garbage dump, and the bones and cartilages of the rats obstructed his intestine. After he collapsed in his cell, he was taken to a hospital and it is a miracle that he survived. Welcome to the new Venezuela, where staying alive is a luxury today. It is very difficult to associate Venezuela with poverty, which was once a poster child of prosperity in Latin America. The country is blessed with the world's largest proven oil reserves. At 297.6 billion barrels, it is ahead of even Saudi Arabia, which has reserves


Venezuelan crisis: All the oil, but no food
Peak oil in 2020: And here is why: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b3ttqYDwF0
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Re: Venezuela decrees forced farm work for citizens

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Mon 05 Mar 2018, 04:47:11

The Venezuelan crisis is, according to both Ibon who was living nearby (see his lengthy message on the prior page) while doing business there and the linked article above, a crisis of Latino culture. The "oligarchs" depend upon the Latino extended family concept of favoritism, while the government itself makes bad decisions about how it spends its money.

Oddly enough, this Latino culture was also a problem when they were practising Capitalism vs. the present Marxism. The difference was that under Captalism, the distribution of wealth was much more extensive, and created a large Middle Class. Marxism has wiped this out and there now exists a huge divide between the Upper classes and the "peons".

How ironic this situation is. Marxism is based upon eliminating class distinctions. In the USSR, they brutally repressed and executed members of the Upper Class in the October Rebellion. This bone-chilling violence resulted in several generations of nominally Marxist government, while the USSR actually fed itself via an underground economy of Capitalist private farm plots. In Venezuela, the Marxists did not bother to execute the Upper Class, they simply imposed Marxism on top of the existing class system. They destroyed a functioning economy in the process, more or less completely. The Middle Class who moved from the rural farms to the cities, and got jobs and automobiles and cell phones and other trappings of modern life, are simply not going back to the farms, ever. Interesting that in the absence of the brutal Soviet system of Siberian gulags, the Venezuelan Middle Class would die in place, eat rats, and subsist on the government dole, rather than become peons again.

Chalk up one more destroyed economy for Marxism. The same thing happened in Cuba, it took a couple of decades longer, because they were propped up by the USSR. I think the take away message is that both Marxist government structure and a Marxist planned economy are helpless in the face of traditional Latino culture.
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Re: Declining Production in Venezuela

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Sat 12 May 2018, 12:57:44

As they say if you can’t do the time don’t do the crime.

Reuters - Venezuela on Thursday rejected ConocoPhillips's moves to seize the country's Caribbean assets to collect on a $2 billion arbitration award, but in a sign the U.S. oil company's pressure might be working, Caracas also suggested it was ready to pay. In its first official comments since Reuters revealed Conoco's actions over the weekend, Venezuela's cash-squeezed leftist government said PDVSA wanted to solve the dispute through legal means. The dispute stems from Venezuela's nationalization of Conoco's assets a decade ago under late leader Hugo Chavez.

Nicolas Maduro's leftist administration is also battling more than a dozen other arbitration cases triggered by a wave of nationalizations under Chavez, who died of cancer in 2013. In the most aggressive move to date, ConocoPhillips last week moved to temporarily seize PDVSA's assets on Aruba, Bonaire, Curacao and St. Eustatius. That threw Venezuela's oil export chain into a tailspin. PDVSA was forced to suspend oil storage and shipping from its Caribbean facilities and has concentrated most shipping in its main crude terminal of Jose, which is suffering from a backlog.
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Re: Oil Has Cursed Venezuela

Unread postby kublikhan » Mon 03 Sep 2018, 20:17:29

Maduro’s cryptocurrency, supposedly backed by Venezuela’s oil reserves, is a very hollow promise. To be sure, few analysts expected much from the “petro,” Maduro’s hastily launched cryptocurrency. The new cryptocurrency has unsurprisingly failed to catch on.

The petro is supposed to be backed by 5 billion barrels of oil located in Atapirire, a small town in Venezuela’s remote savanna in the middle of the country. Reserves in this region are the lynchpin of the petro, and as such, they are intended to underwrite the regime’s plan for economic recovery. But as Reuters details in a special report, the region is not only lacking in oil production, but there is no visible effort at developing oil in this area at all. The only evidence of an oil presence were old rigs that have clearly been inoperable for a long time, as they are rusted out and covered in weeds. “There is no sign of that petro here,” a local resident told Reuters. Worse, the town suffers from blackouts, hunger, poverty and decrepit infrastructure, an increasingly common plight for the country on the whole. A cabinet minister involved in the project told Reuters that “nobody has been able to make use of the petro...nor have any resources been received.”

Meanwhile, Venezuela’s oil production continues to erode at a rapid rate. Output fell to just 1.278 million barrels per day in July, down roughly 50,000 bpd from a month earlier and down more than 500,000 bpd since the fourth quarter of 2017. There is almost no chance of improvement for the foreseeable future.

Thus, the meltdown continues. Maduro is going to need to come up with something better than a hapless and inept attempt at a new cryptocurrency to resolve the country’s deep depression.
The Collapse Of Venezuela's Imaginary Oil Currency

"Crude oil production in Venezuela is practically falling at an average of 10% every quarter and has been since mid-2017. A scenario with oil production in the country losing at least another 500,000 barrels per day by the end of the year is not unrealistic." GlobalData also forecast that Venezuelan crude oil production would fall to around one million barrels per day by the end of 2018. This is a steep decline from the three million barrels per day that Venezuela produced in 2011.

Platts reported this week that Venezuela has already warned eight international customers that it wouldn't be able to meet its crude oil commitments to them in June. Venezuela's state oil company PDVSA is contractually obligated to supply 1.495 million barrels per day to those customers in June, but only has 694,000 barrels per day available for export.

If the GlobalData forecast is correct, then the temporary interruption of Venezuela's exports may be permanent, as they will be plunging toward zero by the end of the year.
Venezuela's Oil Exports Are Headed Toward Zero
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Re: THE Venezuela Thread pt 4 (merged)

Unread postby onlooker » Sun 23 Sep 2018, 15:15:52

https://www.theatlantic.com/internation ... edit-promo

Latin America Gets Its Own Migrant Crisis

“Venezuela is no longer a pressure cooker. It’s a time bomb waiting to explode
.”

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Re: THE Venezuela Thread pt 4 (merged)

Unread postby Cog » Sun 23 Sep 2018, 15:52:04

Newfie wrote:Bored much Cog?


Not in the least. I love watching the mental gyrations people go through to defend a failed communist regime.
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Re: THE Venezuela Thread pt 4 (merged)

Unread postby Tanada » Tue 11 Dec 2018, 14:45:26

MOSCOW (Reuters) - Two Russian strategic bomber aircraft capable of carrying nuclear weapons have landed in ally Venezuela, a show of support for Venezuela’s socialist government that has infuriated Washington.

The TU-160 supersonic bombers, known as “White Swans” by Russian pilots, landed at Maiquetia airport near capital Caracas on Monday after covering more than 10,000 km (6,200 miles), the Russian and Venezuelan governments said.

Their deployment came days after Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro, whose left-wing administration is the most significant U.S. foe in Latin America, held talks with President Vladimir Putin in Moscow.

As OPEC member Venezuela’s socialist-run economy implodes, Russia has become a key lender of last resort, investing in its oil industry and providing support to its military.

Capable of carrying short-range nuclear missiles, the planes can fly over 12,000 km (7,500 miles) without re-fuelling and have landed in Venezuela twice before in the last decade.

“Russia’s government has sent bombers halfway around the world to Venezuela,” fumed U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo on Twitter.

“The Russian and Venezuelan people should see this for what it is: two corrupt governments squandering public funds, and squelching liberty and freedom while their people suffer.”
‘HIGHLY UNDIPLOMATIC’

The Kremlin on Tuesday rejected Pompeo’s criticism, saying it was “highly undiplomatic” and “completely inappropriate.”

“As for the idea that we are squandering money, we do not agree. It’s not really appropriate for a country half of whose defense budget could feed the whole of Africa to be making such statements,” spokesman Dmitry Peskov told reporters.

Russia’s Defence Ministry, which said the bombers had been accompanied by two other Russian military planes, did not say if the planes were carrying missiles, how long they would stay for, or what their mission was.

Russia has used them in the past to flex its military muscles under the nose of the United States, delighting Venezuelan officials who have cast such flights as evidence it is able to defend itself, with allies’ help, from any attack.

Maduro frequently invokes the possibility of a U.S. invasion in the South American nation, a notion U.S. President Donald Trump’s administration denies.

Venezuelan Foreign Minister Jorge Arreaza called Pompeo’s comments “not only disrespectful, but cynical,” highlighting the number of military bases the United States owns abroad.

“It’s strange the U.S. government questions our right to cooperate on defense and security with other countries, when @realDonaldTrump publicly threatens us with a military invasion,” Arreaza tweeted, referring to Trump’s Twitter handle.

Venezuela’s Information Ministry did not respond to a request for details on the bombers.

Maduro said the talks with Putin in Moscow this month yielded Russian investment in Venezuela’s oil and gold sectors.

Russian Defence Minister Sergei Shoigu told his Venezuelan counterpart at the time that such long-range flights provided pilots with excellent experience and helped maintain the planes’ combat readiness.


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Re: Stock Market Crash! (merged) Pt. 3

Unread postby Observerbrb » Wed 23 Jan 2019, 13:24:29

The White House has just recognized that Juan Guaidó is the new official leader of Venezuela. There are rumours of an imminent declaration by China and Russia, they could support Maduro's regime forces... if they don't, his days are probably finished. Venezuelan army is on stand-by and waiting for orders... Some say that this could be the beginning of a new war at America's (USA's) doorsteps, a new Syria in the Caribbean. Stay tuned, because there is more at play than Venezuela's leadership.
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Re: Stock Market Crash! (merged) Pt. 3

Unread postby Yoshua » Wed 23 Jan 2019, 14:17:38

Wars have historically been bullish for stock markets. Venezuela?
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Re: Stock Market Crash! (merged) Pt. 3

Unread postby Observerbrb » Wed 23 Jan 2019, 14:18:12

U.S. SENIOR ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL TELLS REPORTERS ALL OPTIONS ON THE TABLE IF #VENEZUELA'S MADURO HARMS ANY NATIONAL ASSEMBLY MEMBERS OR OTHER OFFICIALS

�� #Breaking ℹ #Venezuela

Via [@]W7VOA: "Everything is on the table, all options," replies official to a question on whether naval blockade or other #military action could be taken by #US against Venezuela

----------------

The VP of Venezuela is saying that the country is ready to wage war against US and other enemies - calls for followers to defend their country against the Imperialism

This is escalating pretty fast
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Re: Stock Market Crash! (merged) Pt. 3

Unread postby Observerbrb » Wed 23 Jan 2019, 14:39:09

The Army is taking positions across the country and some protesters have been killed by live fire from police/soldiers. Venezuela is going down the toilet as we speak (I can look for more info in real time because I speak Spanish and I am in touch with people from there).

https://twitter.com/ConflictsW/status/1 ... 8122346499

https://twitter.com/Benjami84007207/sta ... 9526577152

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DxnoGYbWsAAADMi.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DxnlZFUWsAAc8jW.jpg
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Re: Stock Market Crash! (merged) Pt. 3

Unread postby Cog » Wed 23 Jan 2019, 16:01:45

I'm thinking we are going to seize all assets of Citgo shortly.
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