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THE Venezuela Thread pt 5 (merged)

A forum for discussion of regional topics including oil depletion but also government, society, and the future.

Re: THE Venezuela Thread pt 5 (merged)

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Fri 15 Mar 2019, 22:11:36

It does but your gun is one and theirs is many. I would just as soon not be a slave/killed by and to a Communist than to a Capitalist
The difference is our Capitalist masters prefer to exploit us in a more benign manner than most around the world


I'm sorry, but do you actually understand how stupid this statement is?
If you don't like living in a capitalist regime then I think it is pretty easy for you to move to a socialist one. There are a few choices, Venezuela being one. Are you being exploited? Then I suggest you move somewhere else. Why are you living here if you feel so hard done by?
I suspect that is an honest question.
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Re: THE Venezuela Thread pt 5 (merged)

Unread postby Cog » Sat 16 Mar 2019, 00:50:20

If New York is onlooker's actual location, he has already been brainwashed for decades by socialist Democrats. But just like a locust, he wishes to devour the rest of the country with his ideology.

States which border New York and California have seen this phenomena play out over the years. People fleeing the socialism and high taxes from those two states invariably vote for those same flawed policies in their new states, that caused them to flee to begin with.
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Re: THE Venezuela Thread pt 5 (merged)

Unread postby onlooker » Sat 16 Mar 2019, 21:53:18

Venezuela is bad but not as bad as portrayed given the assistance of Russia and China. They are trying to gin up support for invasion
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Re: THE Venezuela Thread pt 5 (merged)

Unread postby Cog » Sun 17 Mar 2019, 06:18:43

Who is they and invasion by whom?
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Re: THE Venezuela Thread pt 5 (merged)

Unread postby onlooker » Sun 17 Mar 2019, 08:22:03

Cog wrote:Who is they and invasion by whom?

MSM and by probably a coalition of the willing, some South American troops along with some US troops and of course backed up by US military might and technology
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Re: THE Venezuela Thread pt 5 (merged)

Unread postby onlooker » Sun 17 Mar 2019, 08:42:43

Okay here is a plausible  scenario.  This invasion can be acceptable from a PR standpoint because it should only involve a minimal loss of life. 

First you hit Venezuela with targeted air stikes to take out key infrastructure and lower morale.  Then you rush in with the troops who can quickly secure key locations and serve to police the civil population.  At this point the Venezuelan military and high ranking officials will be ready to surrender as will probably the Maduro Govt. 
The military plans are probably already far advanced and they are just waiting for when the time is ripe. 
If only a portion of what Short is saying is correct , it is end game time and we need to secure that OIL.
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Re: THE Venezuela Thread pt 5 (merged)

Unread postby Cog » Sun 17 Mar 2019, 10:07:36

The US isn't invading Venezuela just so you leftists can crow about American imperialism. Sorry but Trump isn't playing your game on this. If only your girl hadn't lost.

But why should anyone invade Venezuela? According to you leftists its a worker's paradise. All of you should move down there and enjoy it.
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Re: THE Venezuela Thread pt 5 (merged)

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Sun 17 Mar 2019, 10:33:47

onlooker wrote:Okay here is a plausible  scenario.  This invasion can be acceptable from a PR standpoint because it should only involve a minimal loss of life. 

First you hit Venezuela with targeted air strikes to take out key infrastructure and lower morale.  ......

Lower what morale?
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Re: THE Venezuela Thread pt 5 (merged)

Unread postby Cog » Sun 17 Mar 2019, 12:50:46

Why should morale be low? The citizens of Venezuela are living the socialist dream they all wanted.

Onward comrades. Just because inflation is one million percent and you can't buy food, toilet paper, and your electricity is shut off, don't let the Yankee imperialist dogs ruin your country with capitalism.
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Re: THE Venezuela Thread pt 5 (merged)

Unread postby Newfie » Sun 17 Mar 2019, 13:29:40

I think it’s less about Capitalisim and Socialisim than the desire to stay in power. Chavez seems to have done that through corruption, essentially buying votes with unsustainable promises. Kinda like the USA bailing out big banks.
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Re: THE Venezuela Thread pt 5 (merged)

Unread postby dissident » Sun 17 Mar 2019, 14:23:32

Newfie wrote:I think it’s less about Capitalisim and Socialisim than the desire to stay in power. Chavez seems to have done that through corruption, essentially buying votes with unsustainable promises. Kinda like the USA bailing out big banks.


You just assume that the standard of living for millions of Venezuelans did not increase thanks to Chavez. As if their poverty is intrinsic to them like their skin colour or something. I guess you are rooting for the return of the good old comprador days to Venezuela where some US anointed clown becomes the "voice of the people" and all the billions that have gone to the poor start flowing to the USA again.

Funny how the USA did not worry about Citgo's transfer pricing racket. Massive corruption is perfectly fine if it makes money flow to the USA.

BTW, cute how obvious sabotage in Venezuela is being used as a metric for failure of its government. Americans wouldn't mind foreign organized sabotage in the USA, right?
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Re: THE Venezuela Thread pt 5 (merged)

Unread postby Cog » Sun 17 Mar 2019, 17:20:14

Submit proof that the USA had anything to do with that sabotage. I'm amazed that people who should know better, carry water for this communist regime.
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Re: THE Venezuela Thread pt 5 (merged)

Unread postby onlooker » Sun 17 Mar 2019, 17:59:07

Dissident, you are right Chavez did do tangible beneficial things for the poor. And yes sabatige did occur. The problem for us in the US is finding the accurate truthful reports amid a blanket of lies and distortion that is the Western MSM.
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Re: THE Venezuela Thread pt 5 (merged)

Unread postby Cog » Sun 17 Mar 2019, 18:10:50

The leftist media is desperate to blame everything and everybody for the failure of Venezuela except where blame should really reside. Communism is a failure. There is no getting it right this time, next time, or any other time. I'm amused at how the defense of communism is going on right in this thread. Pathetic yes, but amusing nonetheless.
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Re: THE Venezuela Thread pt 5 (merged)

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Sun 17 Mar 2019, 18:26:56

To be accurate about it Venezuela is not socialist or communist. It is a dictatorship that uses the communist label to control the masses while enriching a few elite powerful people at the top. Anything Chavez or Maduro did to improve the plight of the poor was only done to secure their grip on power. One only has to see which Swiss bank accounts the countries oil wealth has gone into to know the truth of the matter.
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Re: THE Venezuela Thread pt 5 (merged)

Unread postby Cog » Sun 17 Mar 2019, 18:44:36

Look at any communist or socialist regime you care to name. There is always an elite at the top and they are rich. Our very own Democratic socialists want that here in the USA.
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Re: THE Venezuela Thread pt 5 (merged)

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Sun 17 Mar 2019, 19:35:20

Our very own Democratic socialists want that here in the USA. Indeed they do.

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Re: THE Venezuela Thread pt 5 (merged)

Unread postby onlooker » Sun 17 Mar 2019, 19:57:08

Cog wrote:Look at any communist or socialist regime you care to name. There is always an elite at the top and they are rich. Our very own Democratic socialists want that here in the USA.

And look at the disparity in wealth in every country.  It has been getting worse and worse with time under the basic tenets of Capitalism being private property and cumulative wealth via money. So now you  have a worldwide network of corrupt money laundering and kickbacks and embezzelment.  This is the rule of money. And yes all the isms are partaking. This is the world Capitalism has made possible, a world where our species is caught up in a frenzy of greed, selfishness and consumerism. Sadly, also enabled by the rich energy sources of fossil fuels and with even more dire consequences due to our overpopulation.
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Re: THE Venezuela Thread pt 5 (merged)

Unread postby Cog » Sun 17 Mar 2019, 20:04:46

Get a passport and immigrate onlooker. It pains me that you have to suffer under our capitalism. Liberate yourself from it.
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Re: THE Venezuela Thread pt 5 (merged)

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Sun 17 Mar 2019, 20:34:18

onlooker wrote:
Cog wrote:Look at any communist or socialist regime you care to name. There is always an elite at the top and they are rich. Our very own Democratic socialists want that here in the USA.

And look at the disparity in wealth in every country.  It has been getting worse and worse with time under the basic tenets of Capitalism being private property and cumulative wealth via money. So now you  have a worldwide network of corrupt money laundering and kickbacks and embezzelment.  This is the rule of money. And yes all the isms are partaking. This is the world Capitalism has made possible, a world where our species is caught up in a frenzy of greed, selfishness and consumerism. Sadly, also enabled by the rich energy sources of fossil fuels and with even more dire consequences due to our overpopulation.


The animal world is not free from greed, gluttony, or abuse due to the exercise of such behaviors. Although rare examples of altruism exist in the animal world, they are virtually unknown. Of course animals don't use money, but Capitalists, Socialists, Communists, and Marxists do. The disparity of wealth and the corrupt practices are still present in those other economies, at least before they fail - and they all have failed, over four dozen times in various countries.

But my point is that the theory and the reality of alternative economic systems are very different. Capitalism is the only system that has created and nourished a large Middle Class - in fact it has made more people happier than all other systems, multiple times over. Just LOOK AT VENEZUELA. Although they would love to blame somebody else, they did that to themselves, in the practice of Marxism.

By the way, you have a curious definition of "getting worse and worse". As has been pointed out before, today the number of people living in "extreme poverty" is a quarter of what it was in the 1960s, and more people exist in the Middle Classes than ever before. This in spite of the population of humans more than doubling. Undeniably, the human condition presently improves for everyone as time passes. Nor should you care about wealth disparity - unless you are among those at the top of the wealth pyramid, or a greedy someone who is never satisfied because somebody else has more than you.
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