[Outcast_Searcher]

Knowledge of history only goes so far. There is a profound empathy-gap in this country, really on both sides.

That's a great insight. Not that (IMO) either side would be likely to admit it, at the possibility of exposing a weakness in their heavily invested political "Our side is right" stance.

However for me, who is squarely in the middle and tries to assess each issue one at a time, and couldn't care LESS how either side whines about his position on any given issue -- I think that hits the nail on the head.

...

Kind of reminds me of how one of my more insightful friends asked a question of a weekly (pre-pandemic) trio I've belonged to for about 30 years: "What is the single thing about large social power groups that you fear"? (We're all academically inclined, did very well in school and college, etc, ended up at IBM in high level tech. jobs, etc.)

For one of us (who leans farthest left) it was fear of corporations. For one of us (who leans center left) it was fear of organized religion and their anti-science slant. For one of us (who is solidly centrist and refuses to "belong" to any party), it was the far left anti-property-rights movement.

Though we can all have reasonable conversations / debates on government policy and politics, never coming to anger, much less blows (though getting irritated on occasion -- we ARE human, after all) == look at how DIFFERENT our greatest fears of large group power are. No wonder we can't begin to agree on many policies.

I found that a VERY insightful observation (he had correctly predicted the outcomes, re how we'd answer, in principle, and had written it down in a sealed envelope, and showed us).

He credited it to his tendency to read "WTF is going on NOW?" books, vs. any special insight on his part.

...

I think journalists and analysts who claim they can explain "what' is happening" re US politics, without going out and asking such questions hundreds of times, and knowing something about the folks they are asking the questions of -- are just full of BS and clueless (but earning their living, of course).

And yes -- I could be very wrong. But at least I've thought about it for years, and have no huge axe to grind, and CERTAINLY don't owe ANYONE my opinions in any way, re my monthly income.

[Plantagenet]

I'm watching Congresswoman Jaime Herrera Beutler (R-Wa) on the Margaret Hoover show on PBS explaining what she saw in the House when the rioters surged inside, and defending her vote to impeach Trump.

She is a VERY EFFECTIVE speaker and would've been a very strong R witness in favor of impeachment if the Ds had called her as a witness during the impeachment trial in the Senate. She was right there when Trump called McCarthy during the riots, and she feels betrayed that Trump didn't make any effort to stop the rioters in the Capitol Building.

Again, I'm amazed that the Ds didn't call her as a witness. It would've really helped the case to impeach Trump to have a Republican witness take the stand against Trump and explain why he should be impeached.....but for some reason the Ds didn't call any witnesses at all.


Representative Jaime Herrera Beutler (R-WA) would've been a great witness for the prosecution.....but for some reason the Ds didn't call any witnesses

Cheers!

[aadbrd]

for some reason the Ds didn't call any witnesses

Apparently you're the last person on the planet to realize that doing so would not magically produce 10 more votes to convict, not in this political climate. But hey, never pass an opportunity to blame the Democrats for something, right?

[Pops]

How many of you knew about the Greenwood District of Tulsa Oklahoma and what happened there before this actually became a media topic after the George Floyd murder?

I didn't know about that story beforehand. Just an example.

Both side of my family migrated through the area or I wouldn't. Many lynchings in Missouri, including my current county. My maternal side in Tulsa, Paternal side in the Ozarks. The post-reconstruction period saw bad stuff happen all around here. Springfield MO had a large black business district as well, it was abandoned after several lynchings in the 1900s. The aughts and teens led up to the resurgence of the Klan in the '20s when all those heroic statues of losers were erected.

[Plantagenet]

How many of you knew about the Greenwood District of Tulsa Oklahoma and what happened there before this actually became a media topic after the George Floyd murder?

I didn't know about that story beforehand. Just an example.

Both side of my family migrated through the area or I wouldn't. Many lynchings in Missouri, including my current county. My maternal side in Tulsa, Paternal side in the Ozarks. The post-reconstruction period saw bad stuff happen all around here. Springfield MO had a large black business district as well, it was abandoned after several lynchings in the 1900s. The aughts and teens led up to the resurgence of the Klan in the '20s when all those heroic statues of losers were erected.

The Klan had been very active in the south ever since reconstruction. So there wasn't a "resurgence" of the Klan in the 1920s....there was an EXPANSION of the klan into other parts of the country. The Klan came out into the open with a favorable portrayal in the movie "Death of a Nation", and with a huge mass march in Washington DC, and with D national political success in resegregating the federal civil service.

After reconstruction the klan and the Democratic party power structure worked hand-in-hand to suppress blacks in the south. The D party worked openly, passing laws that restricted the ability of blacks to vote, and mandating segregation and racial discrimination and segregation. The Klan operated like a government "death squad" operates today in Latin American dictatorships....it murdered and terrorized opponents of the Democrat party and the racist laws passed by the Democratic party politicians while the D party mostly looked the other way.

And in many cases the D political leaders and the Klan leaders were the exact same people. For instance, there were several D senators who were later revealed to be high ranking members of the Klan, as well as one D president.


Notable D political figures who klan members

Cheers!

[aadbrd]

Atlantic makes a compelling case for flaws in the constitution.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... cy/618028/

A choice quote that helps drag the R vs. D debate over decidedly to the present tense.

It’s the majority that has shown basic good sense on public-health measures to counter an airborne pandemic—and an overrepresented, armed, and even terroristic minority that until now has thwarted it. Most Americans accept and wear masks. But of the aggrieved and truculent anti-mask minority, a Pew survey found, 92 percent are Republican.

[Pops]

I hadn't quite thought of this in such stark terms, duh

In key states such as Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin, Democrats won more votes in 2020, but Republicans won more seats in the state legislatures. Those gerrymandered results provided the basis for Trump’s plot to overturn the presidential election. If he could relocate control over the election from the Democratic-voting people to the Republican-controlled state legislatures, he could win a state’s electoral votes despite losing that state’s popular vote.

[jedrider]

The Klan had been very active in the south ever since reconstruction. So there wasn't a "resurgence" of the Klan in the 1920s....there was an EXPANSION of the klan into other parts of the country. The Klan came out into the open with a favorable portrayal in the movie "Death of a Nation", and with a huge mass march in Washington DC, and with D national political success in resegregating the federal civil service.

Thanks for that portrayal of Pres. Truman. No wonder he authorized dropping the nukes on populated Japanese cities being a racist at heart, evidently.

Yes, Plant, you like to rail against the 'D' party but, of course, the 'R' party switched places with 'D' party regarding the Southern strategy. It's all in this excellent, not to missed, series on PBS.

Reconstruction: America After the Civil War - PBS
https://www.pbs.org/weta/reconstruction/

Of course, this history lives on in our current politics:

Student Says NY Times Reporter Donald McNeil Jr. Told Her on Peru Trip: 'Racism Is Over'
https://www.msn.com/en-us/tv/news/student-says-ny-times-reporter-donald-mcneil-jr-told-her-on-peru-trip-racism-is-over/ar-BB1dHmwA?ocid=msedgntp

That a common current 'R' political meme, at how reconstruction is OVER after a short ten years proceding the American Civil War and after the sixties Civil Rights Activism. No, it's NOT over. It still must be defeated despite all the bad decisions that a very conservative SC has delivered. The battle goes on.

[aadbrd]

Yes, Plant, you like to rail against the 'D' party but, of course, the 'R' party switched places with 'D' party regarding the Southern strategy.

That's already been pointed out to him. He doesn't care. He just repeats his old talking points over and over.

[Plantagenet]

... the 'R' party switched places with 'D' party ....

The R and the D party never '"switched places."

The R party never adopted the racist policies of the D party-----it has always opposed them.

Only the D party was the pro-slavery party. And after the civil war only the D party passed racist laws that discriminated against black people. Only the D party worked hand in hand with the KKK to terrorize the black population and enforce segregation, Jim Crow, and other racist laws.

Thats why travel is a good thing.....If you ever get a chance I suggest you visit the south and see what its like for yourself. You'll find the south today is nothing like the racist, segregationist hell-hole it was under the Ds.

Cheers!

[jedrider]

The capital insurrection was white privilege in action. According to testimony, it was all about the OPTICS of white privilege. Can't sully those optics just because there is an insurrection happening in the seat of our government.

D.C. Guard Chief Says It Took Over 3 Hours For Approval To Deploy National Guard On Jan. 6
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/national-guard-capitol-riot-pentagon-delay_n_603fafc6c5b6d7794ae361c7

I think I need my eyes examined because I didn't see any of that OPTICAL camouflage.

[Pops]

The reason of course is civilian control, civilians appointed by trump in this case.

Pretty good piece in the post

At best, this was a catastrophic failure of government. At worst, political appointees and Trump loyalists at the Defense Department deliberately prevented the National Guard from defending the Capitol against a seditious mob.

[jedrider]

The reason of course is civilian control, civilians appointed by trump in this case.

Pretty good piece in the post

At best, this was a catastrophic failure of government. At worst, political appointees and Trump loyalists at the Defense Department deliberately prevented the National Guard from defending the Capitol against a seditious mob.

Yes, the other piece of that OPTICS was that the insurrection was being fostered by their boss in real time.

[Plantagenet]

The capital insurrection was white privilege in action. According to testimony, it was all about the OPTICS of white privilege. Can't sully those optics just because there is an insurrection happening in the seat of our government.......I think I need my eyes examined because I didn't see any of that OPTICAL camouflage.

Do you know the source of that quote about "optics"?

Ironically, it turns out it was Nancy Pelosi who opposed putting up fences or calling in the National Guard because of the "optics." The capitol hill police chief requested fences and more backup TWO DAYS before the attack....but the Ds control the Congress and that means they control Capitol security and Nancy Pelosi and the Ds said no because of the "optics".

Ironic, isn't it?

And the delay in approving the National Guard is also, ironically, the fault of the Ds.

The National Guard was called out during the antifa/BLM riots and looting in DC in the summer-----and the Ds went nuts because the National Guard was called out. The Ds said it was racist to call out the national guard, and the Ds demanded that the National Guard should never be called out during protests.

Later in the fall when Trump wanted to call out the National Guard to help control the leftist mobs besieging the White House and attacking and injuring secret service agents trying to keep the leftists outside of the security fences around the the White House, the Ds said it would be "fascism" to call in the national guard. And so the Pentagon responded by making it more difficult to call in the National Guard and Trump never got any National Guard forces to help keep the secret service and federal police fighting to keep the leftists out of the White House.

And sure enough.....the same policies the Ds had demanded in the summer to make it very difficult to call out the national guard were still in place when the Capitol was attacked.....so even though the National Guard was clearly needed at the Capitol, it was more difficult to get approval then it should have been......just as the Ds had demanded all summer.

How ironic!!

Cheers!

[jedrider]

Trump State Department aide charged with assault at Capitol
https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-state-department-aide-charged-152911549.html

I think that makes it official now: We're a third-world country!

WH aide for Brazilian region charged in leading crowd descending upon Capitol in the U.S. Insurrection of 2021.

[jedrider]

Sixty Minutes Episode
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osb7X6tAwpc

Jacob Chansley, the 'QAnon Shaman', speaks in his first interview from jail since the violent Capitol insurrection, as the 'Q' movement faces uncertainty. Laurie Segall speaks to Chansley's mother, who insists her son is a patriot, not a criminal.

Watched it from midway through to the end. A vision of Extremism that is gripping this country. The judge apparently reprimanded Chansley for doing the sixty minutes interview. I think it is important to understand these people, however. An insurrection is still an insurrection and those planning murder should perhaps be held to account.

[Newfie]

An insurrection is still an insurrection

True in Washington, DC or Washington, state.

But also the Revolution (George Washington) was also an insurrection.

[aadbrd]

But also the Revolution (George Washington) was also an insurrection.

The rationale for the Revolutionary War was not based on a "Big Lie" and a basket of assorted conspiracy theories.

[yellowcanoe]

But also the Revolution (George Washington) was also an insurrection.

The rationale for the Revolutionary War was not based on a "Big Lie" and a basket of assorted conspiracy theories.

I wouldn't be so sure of that. The written history seems to focus on the American Revolution starting as a tax revolt though a documentary I saw on the A&E channel claimed that the reality was that the colonists were paying less tax than people in Britain. However, I think the real roots of the revolution lie with the Proclamation of 1763 where the British agreed not to advance further west into Indian territory, which essentially disallowed expansion of the 13 colonies westward.

[jedrider]

The British would have hung an insurrectionist. But they couldn't hang a whole set of colonies, especially as they were fighting back.