[Plantagenet]

BTW, that story about the cop being killed by protestors was a total fabrication.

It looked violent to me watching those videos. A mob can inflict damage without it being so organized, especially if they're assisted by an absent defense (also an act of insurrection IMO) and, get this, following EXPLICIT instructions to topple a duly elected leader of the country in order to allow a person to retain power that they lost through a legitimate election. I guess you have a different definition of INSURRECTION.

No....dissident is 100% right.

The NY Times reported that a policeman had been killed after he was hit in the head with a fire extinguisher during the insurrection.

However, all of the video and all of the still photographs have been closely examined and there is no footage of a policeman being hit in the head with a fire extinguisher.

Furthermore, the policeman who was supposedly killed by being hit in the head with a fire extinguisher was alive and doing well after the insurrection----he called his family and said he was OK.

Then he seems to have suffered a stroke in the evening and he was taken to the hospital where he died the next day.

The autopsy report hasn't been released, for some mysterious reason, but the NY Times has already "corrected" their story to say the officer wasn't killed by a fire extinguisher. The report form the hospital is that there there was no bruising or damage at all to the man's head consistent with him being hit with a fire extinguisher.

It now appears that story was a complete fabrication by the NY Times, just as dissident says.

Curiously, the House leadership must've known it was a fabrication well before the impeachment trial for Trump, but the impeachment managers claimed over and over again that an officer was killed during the insurrection in their impeachment presentation, presumably because they liked the way it sounded.

Some have speculated that the reason the Ds suddenly flip-flopped and refused to allow any questions in the impeachment trial is they realized that one of the R Senators was going to ask them about their repeated phony claims that an officer had been killed in the insurrection, and they would've been forced to admit they had been lying about this matter all during the impeachment trial.....which is a violation of law since the impeachment managers were under oath.

Cheers!

[aadbrd]

brazen election fraud

Apparently "stop the steal" has an undying ally in peakoil.com.

[Pops]

brazen election fraud

Apparently "stop the steal" has an undying ally in peakoil.com.

The first thing I thought was "belief doesn't need evidence"
Then I thought: just like religion
Then... I saw this in the Atlantic:

Politics Is the New Religion
As faith has declined, ideological intensity has risen. Will the quest for secular redemption doom the American idea?

The united states had long been a holdout among Western democracies, uniquely and perhaps even suspiciously devout. From 1937 to 1998, church membership remained relatively constant, hovering at about 70 percent. Then something happened. Over the past two decades, that number has dropped to less than 50 percent, the sharpest recorded decline in American history. Meanwhile, the “nones”—atheists, agnostics, and those claiming no religion—have grown rapidly and today represent a quarter of the population.

But if secularists hoped that declining religiosity would make for more rational politics, drained of faith’s inflaming passions, they are likely disappointed. As Christianity’s hold, in particular, has weakened, ideological intensity and fragmentation have risen. American faith, it turns out, is as fervent as ever; it’s just that what was once religious belief has now been channeled into political belief. Political debates over what America is supposed to mean have taken on the character of theological disputations. This is what religion without religion looks like.

Drat! preempted again!

.

[Newfie]

brazen election fraud

Apparently "stop the steal" has an undying ally in peakoil.com.

Ad hominem. Personal attack, no other comment.

[Newfie]

Pops,

I think there is a lot of evidence that aUs Politics has moved into the area of religion. I see that in personal communications.

As an atheist I find this a disturbing trend.

[Ibon]

Pops,

I think there is a lot of evidence that aUs Politics has moved into the area of religion. I see that in personal communications.

As an atheist I find this a disturbing trend.

My dad as a teenager wrote in a journal from his farm house in rural Pennsylvania that he was considering to be a preacher. He was raised an Anabaptist and after meeting my Italian mother in Italy during WWII he returned to the US and got a degree in chemistry and became an atheist. I grew up hearing his frequent proclamations stated with all the fervor of a charismatic country preacher that the best decision he made in his life was when he dumped Jesus.

I always was struck by how much he sounded like a preacher when he said this! hahaha

[Newfie]

Ibon,

Completely true. For some the need to be right becomes a holy grail, something to fight and die for.

I personally am more interested in discovering truth, a unending quest.

[Pops]

Prepare for Military Coup After 2024 Election, Ex-General Warns

A retired general has warned that another insurrection attempt could succeed in 2024 if "confusion" is successfully sown among U.S military members about who the commander in chief is.

Paul Eaton, a former two-star U.S. Army major general, told NPR about his concerns that the U.S. military might be "compromised" by competing claims of who won the election and who it should take orders from.

He said he was worried that some members of the military might not understand "who the duly elected president is."

Unfortunately the problem isn't "confusion" but outright insurrection. These retired generals aren't confused and they aren't fresh recruits with a poor understanding of civics and who the commander is.

[124 retired generals and admirals question Biden's mental health

A group of retired U.S. military admirals and generals signed a letter released Tuesday questioning President Biden’s fitness for office and seemingly challenging the outcome of the 2020 presidential election.

"We are in a fight for our survival as a Constitutional Republic like no other time since our founding in 1776,” they said. “The conflict is between supporters of Socialism and Marxism vs. supporters of Constitutional freedom and liberty."

The basis of democracy is accepting electoral defeat and the authority of the chosen representatives. Even if the voters were to elect a commie government it is not up to "generals" to do anything but their constitutional duty.

A good portion of republicans including, no doubt, many in the military have decided they don't owe allegiance to anythng but trump. These generals are either willing dupes to FOX/trump's lies, or are attempting to make the military just another partisan institution, with guns. The elected civilian-led military is the last best hope we have of avoiding political meltdown, collapse, civil war.

I was around for nuke drills, assassinations, the bombings and riots of the 1960s-70s — even when the Guard was shooting kids— and never felt as much concern for us as I do now
.

[Plantagenet]

A good portion of republicans including, no doubt, many in the military have decided they don't owe allegiance to anythng but trump.

Just as a good portion of democrats including, no doubt, many in the government decided they didn't owe allegience to anything but Hillary after the 2016 election.

Unfortunately, Hillary, Obama and the Ds cooked up a wild conspiracy theory that claimed Trump was a Russian asset during the runup to the 2016 election, and after Trump won the election anyway some in the government and the media lied and conspired to keep this conspiracy theory going through the entire Trump presidency.

Now some Rs are lying and saying Trump actually won the 2020.

Both things were very unfortunate lies, IMHO.

But this isn't entirely the Rs problem ----- Both the Ds and the Rs are liars and both spun up ridiculous conspiracy theories after they lost the last two presidential elections. And, when the Ds spun up their conspiracy theory about Trump a lot of Ds mindlessly believed it, and when the Rs spun up their conspiracy theory about Biden, a lot of Rs mindlessly believe it.


When the Ds spun up their conspiracy theory about Trump a lot of Ds mindlessly believed it, and when the Rs spun up their conspiracy theory about Biden, a lot of Rs mindlessly believe it.

Cheers!

[dissident]

There is no freaking way that Biden got 81 million votes. Look at all the previous elections. The US population did not surge. The 4 am ballot stuffing by 100% pro-Biden mail in votes cannot be denied or fobbed away. Those ballots did not even conform to the law and had false addresses and deceased names.

The D. Party has lost the plot. It needs to be replaced by another party but the US is locked into a two-party dictatorship where third parties and candidates are sabotaged. This happened with Ross Perot and Ralph Nader. Token existence of other parties in the US does not prove that the system gives them a chance to win at the ballot.

This two-party regime is now bearing its rotten fruit as US society is cleaved down the middle and there is a serious risk of a civil war. There is polarization on both the right and the left. Politicians always act to ratchet up strife by pushing slanted narratives in order to retain and gain power. This is true around the world, including in the "exceptional" USA.

[Pops]

No doubt both the above comments ignore the point, which is the point. Rs are increasingly unwilling to abide by the constitution and the results of elections. They are busily preparing to negate, replace, overthrow any result they don't like. Gonna be bad.
https://www.pressherald.com/2021/12/16/ ... ions-dips/
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... epublicans
https://www.npr.org/2021/12/09/10626835 ... ection-res
https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/06/politics ... index.html

[Plantagenet]

Rs are increasingly unwilling to abide by the constitution and the results of elections.

Same thing with the Ds.

You are forgetting about Stacy Abrams screaming for years that the election was stolen from her in Georgia, and then you had Hillary and the Ds claiming Trump's election was invalid followed by Ds marching and rioting and looting stores after Trump won in 2016, while the Ds inside the government along with almost all of the mainstream media lied for four solid years about Trump being a Russian asset.

Yes the attack on the capitol on January 6 was bad, but that was just one day---- don't forget the Ds spent weeks during the summer of 2020 attacking the White House, injuring dozens of secret service and other federal officers who were trying to keep D mobs out of the White House.


Ds attacked the White House nightly for several weeks in 2020, injuring many officers.......have you forgotten about that?

Cheers!

[Outcast_Searcher]

brazen election fraud

Apparently "stop the steal" has an undying ally in peakoil.com.

Ad hominem. Personal attack, no other comment.

Respectfully, given the history of his posts, this seems bizarre to me.

Since when are facts (people often claiming the election was stolen without proper evidence), an "ad hom" when the evidence is there to see with searches?

Though one can't predict the future, I notice a post from dissident after that claiming "no way Biden has 81 million votes" without credible evidence -- for example.

[Outcast_Searcher]

There is no freaking way that Biden got 81 million votes. Look at all the previous elections. The US population did not surge. The 4 am ballot stuffing by 100% pro-Biden mail in votes cannot be denied or fobbed away. Those ballots did not even conform to the law and had false addresses and deceased names.

So no evidence whatsover. No credible evidence, credible links. Just your opinion, backed by only far right nonsense.

Is this to be the new standard of "truth"? If so, we have REAL problems ahead.

(Show me CREDIBLE EVIDENCE by CREDIBLE news sources (vs. hysterical far right blogs, for example), and I'm certainly willing to take investigating such claims seriously).

[Plantagenet]

So no evidence whatsover. No credible evidence, credible links. Just your opinion, backed by only far right nonsense.

Is this to be the new standard of "truth"? If so, we have REAL problems ahead.

(Show me CREDIBLE EVIDENCE by CREDIBLE news sources (vs. hysterical far right blogs, for example), and I'm certainly willing to take investigating such claims seriously).

The Rs are just doing what Hillary and Obama and the Ds did from 2016-2020.

The Hillary campaign and the DNC made up a fake story that Trump was a Russian agent. Then Ds in the government and in the mainstream media spread this crazy conspiracy theory for
four years. The Ds lied constantly about this, including lying to the Supreme Court (for which a D has been convicted).

Personally, I don't find it surprising that after 4 years of the Ds and the mainstream media embracing a crazy conspiracy theory, and using it to successfully attack Trump, we are now seeing the Rs embrace a conspiracy theory right back at them in hopes that they can use it to attack Biden.

Thats the problem when the Ds do something crazy and it works.....the Rs will learn from what the Ds did and do it right back at them.


The Ds pushed a crazy conspiracy theory for years to attack Trump....now the Rs are copying the Ds and pushing a conspiracy theory to attack Biden.

Cheers!

[careinke]

No doubt both the above comments ignore the point, which is the point. Rs are increasingly unwilling to abide by the constitution and the results of elections. They are busily preparing to negate, replace, overthrow any result they don't like. Gonna be bad.
https://www.pressherald.com/2021/12/16/ ... ions-dips/
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... epublicans
https://www.npr.org/2021/12/09/10626835 ... ection-res
https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/06/politics ... index.html

Nothing slanted about those sources...Cough...cough

[Outcast_Searcher]

No doubt both the above comments ignore the point, which is the point. Rs are increasingly unwilling to abide by the constitution and the results of elections. They are busily preparing to negate, replace, overthrow any result they don't like. Gonna be bad.
https://www.pressherald.com/2021/12/16/ ... ions-dips/
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... epublicans
https://www.npr.org/2021/12/09/10626835 ... ection-res
https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/06/politics ... index.html

Nothing slanted about those sources...Cough...cough

So the modern standard is to call facts "slanted", AKA, "fake news", Trump style?

You'd think we were in the middle ages instead of in the information age.

No doubt that concept is "slanted" too.

Just like masks don't help with Covid-19, Covid-19 is a hoax made up by the left, vaccines are more dangerous than anything else on earth, and evolution doesn't exist, because it would offend God.

[Plantagenet]

... masks don't help with Covid-19, Covid-19 is a hoax made up by the left, vaccines are more dangerous than anything else on earth, and evolution doesn't exist, because it would offend God.

I do enjoy your posts.

They are often very funny......and you've really outdone yourself this time.

Cheers!

[Newfie]

I don’t know that we will ever know the real truth about Jan 6.

As to the election I can see reasons why some feel the election was stolen.

On the other hand consider that in a population the size of the USA any national election is going to have some range of error. There will be mistakes, errors and some level of corruption and cheating by both sides. We should strive ti make the results as accurate as possible while understanding that there will he some error.

No matter who “win” the national election, the other side would have room for doubt, there is no 100% clear winner. Had Trump “won” the the D’s would be claiming it was stolen. There was no way for the COUNTRY to not face this ambiguity. We have just do the best we can, declare one guy a winner, and move on. The R’s should accept Biden as President just as the D’s should have accepted Trump as President in 2016. This “not my President” stuff is no different than what the R’s are doing now.

The main point is no matter what we would have a weak President with no clear mandate from the people. Trump and Biden both have/had the same challenge; how to govern for ALL the people not just some. Trump did that poorly, Biden style is different but he seems no more effective than Trump.

I am afraid we will have to ride this out and hope for better choices in 2024.

[Plantagenet]

No matter who “win” the national election, the other side would have room for doubt, there is no 100% clear winner. Had Trump “won” the the D’s would be claiming it was stolen. There was no way for the COUNTRY to not face this ambiguity. We have just do the best we can, declare one guy a winner, and move on. The R’s should accept Biden as President just as the D’s should have accepted Trump as President in 2016. This “not my President” stuff is no different than what the R’s are doing now.

Exactly right. The Ds created a conspiracy theory that Trump was a Russian agent in 2016 so he wasn't legitimate. Now the Rs have cooked up a conspiracy theory that Joe stole the election so he isn't legitimate.

The main point is no matter what we would have a weak President with no clear mandate from the people. Trump and Biden both have/had the same challenge; how to govern for ALL the people not just some. Trump did that poorly, Biden style is different but he seems no more effective than Trump.

I am afraid we will have to ride this out and hope for better choices in 2024.

I'm looking forward to 2022. If the Rs take over the Congress then we can look forward to fake impeachments of Biden to match the fake impeachments of Trump that the Ds did. It worked for the Ds, so now the Rs are going to copy the Ds playbook.


The Ds had a phony conspiracy theory to delegitimize Trump so now the Rs have phony conspiracy theory to delegimitze Biden. And when the Rs take over Congress I predict we'll see phony impeachments of Biden to match the phony impeachments of Trump that the Ds did......its monkey see monkey do time in Washington DC.

Cheers!