[cipi604]

When was that ? Anyway, complete cooking to any reasonable temperature does not remediate mad cow which is caused by a protein.

Cooking burgers to an internal temperature of 160 degrees kills the threat. I don't know ... 2004 or around that time period.

[mattduke]

When prions aggregate they are super stable, cooking does not destroy their structure. Prions are cool, like ice-9.

[dinopello]

When was that ? Anyway, complete cooking to any reasonable temperature does not remediate mad cow which is caused by a protein.

Cooking burgers to an internal temperature of 160 degrees kills the threat. I don't know ... 2004 or around that time period.

What is your reference for that cooking claim ? Everything I can find says the opposite.

[fiedag]

Much as I am fond of libertarian dogma, my risk-reward calculus in this instance leads me to support the authoritarian side of this debate.

When it comes to pasteurisation, I endorse the centuries-old practice of State interference in people's dietary predilections. The reason is this: Even if every consumer was duly informed of the risks of consuming unpasteurised milk and other dairy products, the risks and costs of such a choice are not confined to that consumer alone. As a taxpayer, and willing participant in a modern healthcare contract with my government, I pay for the medical care of others. I would resent having to pay for the medical costs of others who choose to drink unpasteurised milk. I also feel the duty to protect the children of those parents who expose their children to such risks. Finally I would worry that the resultant greater prevalence of certain transmissible diseases puts ME at risk even though I drink pasteurised milk.

Has anyone drunk unhomogenised milk lately? Now that's delicious! And still safe...

[mattduke]

Much as I am fond of libertarian dogma, my risk-reward calculus in this instance leads me to support the authoritarian side of this debate.

When it comes to pasteurisation, I endorse the centuries-old practice of State interference in people's dietary predilections. The reason is this: Even if every consumer was duly informed of the risks of consuming unpasteurised milk and other dairy products, the risks and costs of such a choice are not confined to that consumer alone. As a taxpayer, and willing participant in a modern healthcare contract with my government, I pay for the medical care of others. I would resent having to pay for the medical costs of others who choose to drink unpasteurised milk. I also feel the duty to protect the children of those parents who expose their children to such risks. Finally I would worry that the resultant greater prevalence of certain transmissible diseases puts ME at risk even though I drink pasteurised milk.

Has anyone drunk unhomogenised milk lately? Now that's delicious! And still safe...

Certainly you will agree that alcohol should be illegal then. It is completely inconsistent to believe raw milk aficionados should be jailed or otherwise harmed while consumers and producers of alcohol are to be left alone.

[alokin]

There is a difference, if you buy raw milk at a supermarket where milk of hundreds of farms is poured together or a village dairy or even better directly at a farm. You won't buy your milk at the most scruffy farm. In Europe there is lots of cheese which is unpasteurized and I never heard of problems with it. There are so many cheese varieties which needs to be unpasteurized to taste right.
Laws are usually made for big produces only.

[cipi604]

What is your reference for that cooking claim ? Everything I can find says the opposite.

It seems that I was wrong and quoted the e-coli temperature (160F). You and mattduke are right, you can burn the meat and it is still there. Good to know. Thanks!

[FairMaiden]

I live in Canada and I can order my burger the same way I order steak: well-done, medium, medium rare, etc.

We do have stricter standards here with regard to our foods and labelling...but last I saw, the local farms aren't getting raided by feds?

I think the gov't has a right to put standards out there but if the ppl want pasteurized milk, then they should have the choice. It's really quite ridiculous how mandated our existence has become...

[cipi604]

soon the existence itself will be mandated

[PrestonSturges]

Certainly you will agree that alcohol should be illegal then. It is completely inconsistent to believe raw milk aficionados should be jailed or otherwise harmed while consumers and producers of alcohol are to be left alone.

Alcohol and pasteurization both kill germs.

[PrestonSturges]

I think the gov't has a right to put standards out there but if the ppl want pasteurized milk, then they should have the choice. It's really quite ridiculous how mandated our existence has become...

Canada was one of the last countries to add vitamin D to milk in 1979, and they were one the last countries with large numbers of otherwise well nourished children with rickets.

[PrestonSturges]

45 people treated for rabies after drinking raw milk from .....wait for it......a rabid cow.

http://www.rense.com/general69/rabdies.htm

[dinopello]

I live in Canada and I can order my burger the same way I order steak: well-done, medium, medium rare, etc.
We do have stricter standards here with regard to our foods and labelling...but last I saw, the local farms aren't getting raided by feds?

My post last night was lost, but I found the Heath Regs for Alberta and it specifies that it is illegal to serve ground beef that has not been brought to 160F (71C) for at least 15 seconds throughout. Of course, restaurants probably vary in how they follow the law, but it is the law. It's also true that some localities in the US have similar rules regarding ground beef, thankfully mine is not one of them.

[PrestonSturges]

My post last night was lost, but I found the Heath Regs for Alberta and it specifies that it is illegal to serve ground beef that has not been brought to 160F (71C) for at least 15 seconds throughout. Of course, restaurants probably vary in how they follow the law, but it is the law. It's also true that some localities in the US have similar rules regarding ground beef, thankfully mine is not one of them.

Oh, well Canadian hamburgers are a whole 'nother story. You can't get a decent burger in Canada.

[Loki]

As a taxpayer, and willing participant in a modern healthcare contract with my government, I pay for the medical care of others. I would resent having to pay for the medical costs of others who choose to drink unpasteurised milk. I also feel the duty to protect the children of those parents who expose their children to such risks.

That slippery slope leads straight down to the worst kind of despotic nanny statism. "I pay taxes," "it's for the children," etc. are absurd rationalizations for pushing people around and telling them what they can and cannot do with their own bodies. It is the siren call of the tyrant.

As for food regs, there's definitely a fine line between over-regulation and under-regulation. Right now I think we have the worst of both worlds, small farmers being pushed out of business because they can't comply with federal regulations designed to encourage corporate factory farming. The result is a GREATER risk to public health, not to mention horrific animal abuse on a monumental scale.

The federal government is probably the single greatest enemy of the small farmer, sustainable humane practices, and local foods. Joel Salatin has some interesting thoughts on this subject---Everything I Want to Do Is Illegal.

[Pretorian]

The disease you can get from unpasteurized milk are really awful, like TB infections of the bones. Who wants to die over 5 years because their spine is rotting? It happened to a coworkers mother in India.

The more I look into people like this the more I see they are wrapped into a very tight little belief system, and for "free thinkers" they are rigid, dogmatic, don't read much, and generally seem unaware of much outside the conspiracy universe.

As I was reading the thread I was wondering if any of the Obama's zombies will show up. YOU MADE IT MAN!! Wow

[Pretorian]

I also feel the duty to protect the children of those parents who expose their children to such risks.

Such risks? What are they exactly. I don't know if you are aware but there is another great injustice and danger many children endure on behalf of their couldnt-care-less parents. They put health and lives of their very own children on line often for no reason at all. They drive them around like if they were little bricks or something. It is known that there is 1 fatality and god knows how many injuries per 20 mln miles driven.
So, it is easy to calculate the great risk for the children:

1)a grocery store run- 10 miles-- chance of death 0.00005%
2) visiting granpa- 100 miles-- chance of death 0.0005%
3) going to the beach 1000 miles-- chance of death 0.005%
4) Going to Disneyland 2000 miles--chance of death 0.01%
5) Driving 15 000 miles per year over the course of 18 years-- chance of death 1.35 %
6) now what if you have 5 kids? Chances are that you will kill at least one with your driving until they are 18 are 6.75%
7) what if your driving is impaired ( s****** or /and old vehicle, sloppy maintenance, p***-poor driving skills and/or habits, residence in or near the ghetto, etc) then you can easily increase that number 2, 3 or even 4 times. Think about it-- there is an up to 27% chance that you will kill at least one of your 5 kids by your driving till they are 18.
Russian roulette does not yield more than 16.6%.
Now I think everyone would agree that something must be done to protect the children from parents that will play Russian roulette with them more than once.
May I suggest a motion against driving kids in automobiles until they reach the age at which they would understand the risks involved and sign appropriate waivers?

[mattduke]

"X is bad for you, so if you do X, we'll hurt you." Ridiculous.

[PrestonSturges]

OK, I gotta ask, how many antivaccination people are here? Show of hands....

[Serial_Worrier]

Why risk drinking raw milk? Just take your probiotics to get the necessary bacteria you need w/o the risk.