[aadbrd]

That is the second time you have accused someone of a personal attack without citing the specific occurrence.

I was accused of being a horrible brother to my sister. It's obvious to me and I'm trying to use the flagging system rather than get baited into a flamewar. Obviously the underlying reason why I'm being attacked is the left-right divide along the lines of the right saying we should "move on" from January 6th and everyone should join hands and sing kumbaya. My point in bringing up a personal anecdote is that some belief-systems are so corrosive to society that toleration is equivalent to endorsement and normalization. Believe me, if I thought a family intervention would help I would have done it, but I have no interest in going into detail about the personal situation and I don't appreciate strangers on the internet making sweeping judgments about family dynamics they don't fully understand. While she may not be one of those who stormed the capitol, there is more going on here which I simply don't want to go into.

There are many articles like this one that outlines the problem that is impacting a great many families today.

https://www.newsweek.com/qanon-conspira ... es-1568664

It's insulting to suggest these problems can just be casually brushed under the rug in the interests of family unity.

[Pops]

Ds in general think trump was a phase.
They don't get it:

A Suffolk University-USA Today poll found that 46 percent of Republicans said they would abandon the GOP and join the Trump party if the former president decided to create one. Only 27 percent said they would stay with the GOP, with the remainder indicating they would be undecided.

The Hill

trump is both symptom and vector of hate, resentment, retribution.
In the article a voter says "he fights for us, republicans don't"
This is exactly right, Rs fight for the ownership... and only pander to guns and bibles...
What did trump do?


he is going to speak at CPAC this week, stay tuned

[Plantagenet]

... Trump..... white supremacy .....

Sorry but I get very uncomfortable with that kind of rhetoric in talking about race and all the name-calling based on race.

I was hoping the US would move past race......but instead race has become a constant theme in the media these days.

Personally, I don't think its helpful to see everything and judge everything using a racial filter where one race is supposedly "supreme" and another race is supposedly "inferior."

I think we'd all be much better off if we would judge each by the content of our character rather then the color of our skins.



Cheers!

[careinke]

That is the second time you have accused someone of a personal attack without citing the specific occurrence.

I was accused of being a horrible brother to my sister. It's obvious to me and I'm trying to use the flagging system rather than get baited into a flamewar. Obviously the underlying reason why I'm being attacked is the left-right divide along the lines of the right saying we should "move on" from January 6th and everyone should join hands and sing kumbaya. My point in bringing up a personal anecdote is that some belief-systems are so corrosive to society that toleration is equivalent to endorsement and normalization. Believe me, if I thought a family intervention would help I would have done it, but I have no interest in going into detail about the personal situation and I don't appreciate strangers on the internet making sweeping judgments about family dynamics they don't fully understand. While she may not be one of those who stormed the capitol, there is more going on here which I simply don't want to go into.

There are many articles like this one that outlines the problem that is impacting a great many families today.

https://www.newsweek.com/qanon-conspira ... es-1568664

It's insulting to suggest these problems can just be casually brushed under the rug in the interests of family unity.

Then pray tell, why did you even bring it up????

[jedrider]

I just see a reality/intelligence gap. It's not that people aren't smart, but just that they get short-circuited by more petty emotions. I see that as the over-riding reason for racism as well.

[Plantagenet]

My point in bringing up a personal anecdote is that some belief-systems are so corrosive to society that toleration is equivalent to endorsement and normalization.

Personally, I appreciate your honesty in telling us this painful story from your family.

It must have been very difficult for you to decide that you couldn't tolerate your sister anymore and then to make the painful decision to cut off contact with your sister in order to protect the larger society from the corrosion her views would produce.

You have my sympathies for the difficulties you have suffered.

While she may not be one of those who stormed the capitol, there is more going on here which I simply don't want to go into.......It's insulting to suggest these problems can just be casually brushed under the rug in the interests of family unity.

Well, its a fact that some families do manage to tolerate differences of opinion among the family members. A little bit of patience and love for your family members helps a lot.

But in other families people just can't tolerate it when there are disagreements between family members and people in these families have a pattern of breaking family ties and cutting each other off, often in generation after generation.

......I find this interesting because so many aspects of human behavior now seem to be related to our DNA make-up, and perhaps the ability to tolerate different opinions within a family is also somehow related to the DNA makeup of that particular family, i.e. there may be a genetic component to the ability to tolerate disagreements or not tolerate disagreements within a family. Alternatively it may be a destructive learned behavior in some families.

AND family members cutting off other family members seems to be becoming more frequent in our modern culture, i.e. it may be related to our new "cancel culture" but in this case the cancelling has expanded to the point that some people are cancelling their relatives right in the same family who have non-PC political views.


Anyway....good luck to you and sister. I hope you find it in your heart to forgive and then reach out and reconcile with her. Family is very important and well worth putting up with a few inconvenient political views.

Cheers!

[Newfie]

That is the second time you have accused someone of a personal attack without citing the specific occurrence.

I was accused of being a horrible brother to my sister. It's obvious to me and I'm trying to use the flagging system rather than get baited into a flamewar. Obviously the underlying reason why I'm being attacked is the left-right divide along the lines of the right saying we should "move on" from January 6th and everyone should join hands and sing kumbaya. My point in bringing up a personal anecdote is that some belief-systems are so corrosive to society that toleration is equivalent to endorsement and normalization. Believe me, if I thought a family intervention would help I would have done it, but I have no interest in going into detail about the personal situation and I don't appreciate strangers on the internet making sweeping judgments about family dynamics they don't fully understand. While she may not be one of those who stormed the capitol, there is more going on here which I simply don't want to go into.

There are many articles like this one that outlines the problem that is impacting a great many families today.

https://www.newsweek.com/qanon-conspira ... es-1568664

It's insulting to suggest these problems can just be casually brushed under the rug in the interests of family unity.

Aardb,

You are still not being specific about the perceived attack.

I see some strong responses to your statement, but not an ad hominem.


ad ho·mi·nem
/ˌad ˈhämənəm/
adjective
(of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.

Your original statement was not one of taking a position but relating an interaction. And it was on a touchy topic. Having had such conversations myself I know that folks who have not shared your experience find it unbelievable. And no amount of explaining is sufficient.

Probably best you not bring up such topics, they are real hot buttons and it is hard to see how it added to the discussion.

[aadbrd]

You are still not being specific about the perceived attack.

Sure I am. You just don't see it the way I do and you just don't care one way or the other. You also seem to want to air this right in the forum rather than taking it to PM. I'm not going to give this more oxygen. I will continue to use the flagging system as an early warning system to avoid flamewars. If you keep ignoring them then I'll be forced to escalate in-thread. But my gut feeling is that your decision to moderate or not moderate is ultimately driven more by favoring long-time members who are viewed as permanent fixtures here than being fair. In other words, that this is more of a private clique than a truly open forum. I welcome being proven wrong.

[Ibon]

... Trump..... white supremacy .....

Sorry but I get very uncomfortable with that kind of rhetoric in talking about race and all the name-calling based on race.

I was hoping the US would move past race......but instead race has become a constant theme in the media these days.

Plant, let's face it, this is not media driven. The 3rd ranking member of the Republican party in the House would not have made a speach about the topic of white supremacy yesterday if it was not recognized to be a cancer inside the party.

It speaks to how far the Republican brand has fallen that one of its top leaders needs to say publicly that the party has to make sure it's not associated with White supremacists. And trust me, Cheney wouldn't say something like this if she didn't have real concerns that her party is currently seen as in the same tent as White supremacists.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/24/politics ... index.html

[Plantagenet]

....white supremacy..... White supremacists...... White supremacists.....

No doubt a lot of Ds are trying to smear the Rs as "white supremacists" and Liz Cheney rightly rejected the name-calling.

Personally I am always skeptical when one political party call the other party nasty names.

Thats been part of "dirty politics" for a very long time.

The Rs used to call the Ds commies....now the Ds and their supporters in the media call the Rs white supremacists.

It all seems childish to me and personally I think it made the Rs look bad when they did it in the past and it makes the Ds look petty when they do it now.

I think its much more useful to discuss contemporary events or the effects specific policies or programs rather then engage in name-calling, but as the last election showed any real debate or discussion of the issues has pretty much disappeared from American politics.

Cheers!

[Ibon]

now the Ds and their supporters in the media call the Rs white supremacists.

!

WRONG. These are the consequences of Trump fracturing the party and making the dominant force in the party white nationalists who are holding even the moderate republicans hostage.

Blame it on the D's ? Blame it on the media ?

I don't think so. By deflecting the blame outward instead of inward is not how your going to reform the R party or make them build any kind of coalition.

What Liz Cheney was doing was attempting to address the problem of white supremacy that is within the R party. She did not blame the D's. Nor did she blame the media. And Plant, she is the daughter of a neocon and not a friend of either the D's or the media.

[aadbrd]

If the R's had any brains they'd position Kinzinger for 2024 instead of someone like Cruz or DeSantis. I don't even know the guy's underlying politics but I have maximum respect for his courage and integrity.

[Plantagenet]

.....the dominant force in the party white nationalists who are holding even the moderate republicans hostage.

Please be more specific.

Who are all these white nationalists that constitute the "dominant force in the party"? AND how are they are holding moderate republicans hostage?

Please provide some specifics.

Thanks and CHEERS!

[Ibon]

.....the dominant force in the party white nationalists who are holding even the moderate republicans hostage.

Please be more specific.

Who are all these white nationalists that constitute the "dominant force in the party"? AND how are they are holding moderate republicans hostage?

Please provide some specifics.

Thanks and CHEERS!

Its easy. It's part of identity politics. The R party is using white supremacy as a campaign tool to rally their base. . It is a deeply cynical political calculation, flawed in my opinion since they cannot build a coalition on this strategy. And seen in the context of the rest of the party platform it is just one more example of moving backward instead of forward. Let's review this:

White supremacy against the backdrop of the changing demographics is a losing campaign strategy
Promoting the fossil fuel industry and coal vs the need to be aggressive on alternative energy is a losing campaign strategy.
Denying climate change and becoming an outlier globally on this issue is a losing campaign strategy.
Being extreme anti immigrant when the entire backbone of our country's history rests on the dynamic of immigrants charging the US economy with fresh blood is a losing campaign strategy
Hitching your wagon to charismatic evangelical christians while the secular trend in the culture is continuing is a losing campaign strategy.
Supporting conspiracy theories that offer no real meaningful reform is a losing campaign strategy.
Gerrymandering and suppressing the vote at a time when the apposing party is becoming daily more aggressive and effective at registering new voters is a losing campaign strategy.

Etc. etc. etc.

White supremacy in the context of the above examples fits a clear pattern of trying to wind back the clock and represents a retrograde defensive non adaptive party strategy.

This is not conservatism. it is nationalism and white supremacy is an integral component.

Hope this helps put into a bit of context

Does this mean that the R party is racist? That is not the question. The truth is worse. They are using racism as a tool as part of a campaign strategy. Mexicans are rapists etc. etc. etc.

Question... How do you ever build a coalition with the above retrograde party strategy?

[aadbrd]

Question... How do you ever build a coalition with the above retrograde party strategy?

The Republican go-to strategy appears to always deny there's a problem, whether it be COVID, climate change, extremism, etc...

[Ibon]

Question... How do you ever build a coalition with the above retrograde party strategy?

The Republican go-to strategy appears to always deny there's a problem, whether it be COVID, climate change, extremism, etc...

I point all this out not because I want to see the R Party perish. If that was my intention I would keep my mouth shut and let them continue to implode. I would like to see an effective R party using fiscally conservative principals in how this is applied to adapting to a world where we need to radically re engineer our energy use, adapt to climate change. Add the necessity of addressing social inequities and social justice and there is a place for a conservative R Party addressing these reforms instead of going rogue and wanting to dismantle government.

In 2008 when Obama won the first term we had a very short, very very short period when the R's went introspective addressing this very issue in how to become a more inclusive party.

You do have to come to some conclusion here that is not pretty. The real instinct of the party decided to choose rigging elections, suppressing the vote, gerry mandering and using white supremacy to build a solid base of aging white racists.

Fucking stupid since this demographic cannot build a winning coalition especially if those without college education make up the majority. Geez.

[Ibon]

Remember as Mousepad pointed out on another thread. I am an entrepreneur that has no qualms about charging first world prices while paying 3rd word wages to our staff. I was in business for 25 years and good at it. I am not by definition a bleeding heart liberal progressive. COg might think otherwise because I am a huge advocate of addressing social inequities and social justice but I do this because after living 10 years in Europe I witnessed how businesses thrived paying livable wages to their employees, offering effective state run health care, often free university education and still being major exporters of high tech products.

An effective fiscally conservative R party as a counter balance to liberal progressives could create the perfect gristmill for efficient reforms regarding climate change, social issues, energy, immigration etc. etc.

BUt what do we have instead? A bunch of rogue white racist nationalists full of conspiracy theories running the party.

Get it now Plant?

[Pops]

They aren't fiscally conservative any more


The Hill 6/13/2019

The only republicans who want the government to spend less are the "representatives".
Mainly because the downership wants to eliminate taxes and they run the party

[Ibon]

Geez man, have they no redeeming qualities left anymore?

[Plantagenet]

The R party is using white supremacy as a campaign tool to rally their base.

Do you mean by the Rs calling for the schools to open?

Are you endorsing the claim by a leading black D that Rs calling for the schools to be re-opened is just more "white supremacy" and is the same as slavery?

reopening-schools-is-white-supremacist-ideology-and-slavery

I certainly hope you endorse this D position, because then this will be my laugh of the day. Everyday something at peak oil makes me laugh out loud....perhaps this discussion will be my "laugh of the day" for today!

Thanks and Cheers!