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THE Republican (general) Thread pt 4

A forum for discussion of regional topics including oil depletion but also government, society, and the future.

Re: Mike Pence selected Trumps VP bet

Unread postby Cog » Sat 16 Jul 2016, 22:10:57

Solid conservative record. Former Congressman. Current governor and a good one. Endorsed Cruz during the primaries. Straight shooter, sober, solid, Republican. NRA A+ rating. The LGBTQ community won't like him much but they aren't voting Republican anyway. Pretty much everything Trump is not.

Not an exciting pick but one that will not raise a lot of controversy with mainstream Republicans.

I wouldn't care if Trump had picked a card-board cut-out as a VP. Clinton must not be allowed in the White House.
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Re: Mike Pence selected Trumps VP bet

Unread postby Tanada » Sat 16 Jul 2016, 23:01:30

SeaGypsy wrote:http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2016-07-17/trump-formally-introduces-vp-pick-mike-pence/7635470

I have never heard of the guy, what can members tell us about Mike Pence? Is he a good pick?


Right after he was elected Governor he made a few moderate decisions that enraged the conservative wing of the voter base. After a few months the controversy died down and he has been pretty much invisible from one state over where I live ever since. That generally means he is a moderate and doesn't do a lot to anger the other political viewpoints enough to make splashy news. I hope that means he is like Eisenhower, and executive who just does his job without seeking to jump in the spotlight and garner attention. That makes him the ideal mate for Trump, who is the exact opposite when it comes to seeking media attention.
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Re: Mike Pence selected Trumps VP bet

Unread postby Sixstrings » Sat 16 Jul 2016, 23:54:09

Tanada wrote:he made a few moderate decisions


Well I like the sound of that, if he were a bit moderate, or like Eisenhower. But, knowing nothing about him, all I've seen in the news is that he has a reputation as being a super social conservative.

What did he do that's moderate?

SeaGypsy wrote:I have never heard of the guy, what can members tell us about Mike Pence? Is he a good pick?


I'd agree with Cog that he's a good pick, for Trump. As a voter -- Pence seems competent enough to be President should the need arise. So he's okay on that end (famously with McCain, Palin was just NOT even basically competent, or so it seemed at the time to me anyway).

Overall, politically, it's a smart pick.. like Cog said, Pence is the things Trump isn't. Also, as a political matter, Pence could bring the GOP together.. this pick is throwing a bone to social conservatives.. and also the establishment, too.

As a governor, he's got some governing experience.

VEEP picks are also about "let's just not HURT the ticket in any way, with baggage." Pence fits that. Clinton will likely pick a similarly bland, unexciting but safe bet, like Tim Kaine.

P.S. From your linked article:

Democratic rival Mrs Clinton has been quick to criticise Mr Trump's vice presidential pick as "Donald Trump with a different haircut" while slamming his policies on Twitter.

Image


Pence isn't as bad as Clinton is making him seem.

I'd like to hear Tanada say what he did that was moderate, but I think maybe that's my "have a beer with" impression of him too, he seems a bit different than some other possible conservative picks.. like the governor of Kansas (I think that was another under consideration).

And here's another thing -- even if they are conservative, people from Indiana are pretty good folks.
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Re: Mike Pence selected Trumps VP bet

Unread postby Tanada » Sun 17 Jul 2016, 09:39:02

Sixstrings wrote:
Tanada wrote:he made a few moderate decisions


Well I like the sound of that, if he were a bit moderate, or like Eisenhower. But, knowing nothing about him, all I've seen in the news is that he has a reputation as being a super social conservative.

What did he do that's moderate?


http://www.wowo.com/pences-pivot-to-the ... ight-base/
Pence's decision to seek an alternative expansion of Medicaid and his recrafting of Common Core education standards has drawn protests from tea partyers in recent months. Common Core protesters showed up to Pence's appearance at an Americans For Prosperity event in Dallas, Texas last month.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/ap/art ... -base.html
Indiana Gov. Mike Pence delivers his State of the State address to a joint session of the Legislature at the Statehouse in Indianapolis. Pence is angering the hardcore conservatives who courted him for the White House in 2012. Pence argues that his moves are designed to promote conservative ideas.


http://www.newsmax.com/Politics/US-Penc ... id/593082/
But many in GOP circles are keeping close watch on the first-term governor, especially those on the far right who are showing signs of disillusionment.

As a hard-charging conservative congressman, Pence was an early member of the House Tea Party Caucus. But since becoming governor, he has softened his approach to the point where many who were pushing for him to run for president in 2012 are wondering what happened. His efforts to pull Indiana from national Common Core education standards resulted in a new set of standards that one critic dubbed Common Core "warmed over." And Pence's decision to seek an alternative expansion of the state's Medicaid program led many tea partyers to accuse him of abandoning them on one of their core issues.

The disillusionment was on display last month, when anti-Common Core demonstrators protested Pence's participation in a panel discussion at the Americans For Prosperity summit.
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GOP Convention

Unread postby Sixstrings » Fri 22 Jul 2016, 00:16:17

Did anyone see Trump's speech? Thoughts?





Fact-checking Donald Trump's convention speech: A dark vision based on specious stats
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/politics/ct-donald-trump-convention-speech-fact-check-20160721-story.html


Donald Trump and the Dark Soul of the GOP
The Republican National Convention was a parade of fear and loathing.

The GOP convention has been a week-long parade of fear and loathing. And whiffs of violence have been in the air. ("The answer to 1984 is 1776," Jones shouted at a rally.) This official embrace of suspicion and distrust is unprecedented—and dangerous.

"I am your voice," Trump thundered during his dour acceptance speech.

The GOP delegates cheered in response. Trump was right. With the support of millions of Republican voters and the acquiescence of GOP elites, he has given voice to darker impulses and has altered the American political landscape.

It is his most consequential construction project yet.
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/07/donald-trump-rnc-speech


Image

I'm actually very objective.. just objectively, performance wise, I thought it was a heck of a speech.

BUT.. my problem with it is that he says things people may like, but then there are no details. He talks about the "elites" -- but then talks about tax cuts. Which would only further benefit the elites. I could maybe like Trump more, if only he were thundering about a modest tax on the super rich.

And, he thundered from the podium, "I am your voice!" And he talked about the working poor and such.. but yet, there was no mention of raising the minimum wage. Or anything like that.

He mentioned "LGBTQ" rights, though nothing specific, but I suppose he deserves some "new york values" credit for that.

He mentioned doing something for college students about loans / costs, but again there was no specific policy.

MOST OF ALL -- for my vote, anyway.. I can't consider voting for him, unless he can make it very clear that he understands constitutional constraints on the presidency, and that he believes in core American values, and values those ABOVE his admiration for dictators.

He's gotta show he understand these things. WHY a dictatorship is bad. Etc.

AND -- he has to show he understands he would be "leader of the free world" and that no, he cannot throw the Baltics people over to Putin; uhm, NO, that would not be right.

Trump: 'I am your voice'
https://youtu.be/ehvUQrRDyyU
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Re: GOP Convention

Unread postby Plantagenet » Fri 22 Jul 2016, 01:25:26

Sixstrings wrote:He mentioned "LGBTQ" rights ..... I suppose he deserves some "new york values" credit for that.


Not only that...Trump got the Rs at the convention to cheer loudly for LGBTQ rights.

Thats an accomplishment right there. :)
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Re: GOP Convention

Unread postby Sixstrings » Fri 22 Jul 2016, 01:43:27

Plantagenet wrote:
Sixstrings wrote:He mentioned "LGBTQ" rights ..... I suppose he deserves some "new york values" credit for that.


Not only that...Trump got the Rs at the convention to cheer loudly for LGBTQ rights.

Thats an accomplishment right there. :)


Well, I think they HAVE to clap, for the Dear Leader, whatever he's saying..

Image

Just to clarify, he said the "LGBTQ" thing just in the context of protecting them from islamic terrorism.

But what about protecting them from getting fired, over their minority status, hm? How about a civil rights bill?

But anyhow, THEN he said, "as a Republican, it's so nice to hear you clap for that." (so what does that mean.. that Trump really is for "new york values" and wants to bring his party along to the left, and he was relieved they didn't boo him for it?)

I'm reading tea leaves.. but that would be good, not gay rights per se, but if he could drag his party to the left on some other lefty good kinds of issues. Like actually helpin' some folk out, with a wage raise and some free college or something.

But for goodness sake, more important than gay rights..

He can't give the Baltics to Putin. That's nuts. These poor little people in little Lithuania, are human beings. The president of Latvia told her people, "don't worry, we can trust America, America defends those that are attacked."

But would Trump's America, do the right thing? Or look the other way?

Look, folks.. throwing the little Lithuanians over the iron curtain.. that's not making America "great again."

And an iron curtain over here, most certainly would not be "great again," either.

The jury is still out, about Mr. Trump.
Last edited by Sixstrings on Fri 22 Jul 2016, 02:01:12, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: GOP Convention

Unread postby Plantagenet » Fri 22 Jul 2016, 01:54:06

The US is in another treaty called SEATO---the Asian counterpart to NATO.

This treaty requires the US to come to the aid of the Philippines, Japan etc. if their territory is invaded.

Well, right now China is taking over territory belonging to US allies in SEATO----but I don't see Obama going to war over that.

Why are you more upset about a hypothetical Russian takeover of NATO ally Latvia in Europe, but you don't care about the Chinese takeover of territory belonging to our SEATO allies in Asia?

Is it because the SEATO treaty countries are Asian?

Cheers!
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Re: GOP Convention

Unread postby Sixstrings » Fri 22 Jul 2016, 02:21:00

Plantagenet wrote:The US is in another treaty called SEATO---the Asian counterpart to NATO.

This treaty requires the US to come to the aid of the Philippines, Japan etc. if their territory is invaded.

Well, right now China is taking over territory belonging to US allies in SEATO----but I don't see Obama going to war over that.


Filipinos aren't worried about actual invasion, in the way that people in the Baltics are.

Why are you more upset about a hypothetical Russian takeover of NATO ally Latvia in Europe, but you don't care about the Chinese takeover of territory belonging to our SEATO allies in Asia?


Well, I DO. Or have you not seen my 100 posts about the South China Sea, and standing up a little bit to China? (Trump sounded tough about China tonight, in his speech, by the way)

And I gave my opinion, that maybe Scarborough Shoal should be secured. That's the reef that's right off the coast. There's sound defensive reason, to secure that reef (or at minimum, have a red line with China that they can't do more than the coast guard patrols they have there now.. OR.. another idea would be to start escorting Filipino fishermen to the shoal, just to make a POINT to China).

Is it because the SEATO treaty countries are Asian?


No, I was tough in my opinions, about Scarborough Shoal and the south china sea and overall strategy out there.

BUT HAVING SAID THAT -- some places are just extra special.

East Europe is one of them. The Baltics. Poland.

And the UK is a special place, too, alliance or common interests, or not.. we can't ever let them be invaded or messed with too much.

And Israel, is another special place. And Japan, and South Korea.

These are just my opinions. East Europe -- that was the fall of communism, those people believe in democracy and we ought to not throw them under a bus. We could work with Russia on other things, without doing that.

Why Trump, with so many connections to east Europe, can't care more about east Europeans.. I just don't understand it.

If I could be sure he was just playing some game, to be friendlier with Russia, but yet he wouldn't really undermine democracy in east europe either.. or, that it really is about just forcing all of Europe to get up to 2% GDP military contribution.. then okay, I'd be okay about it.

LASTLY -- nato is very serious business, and just these statements he made.. objectively, it was irresponsible and may have damaged national security, even though he's just a candidate.

I don't know where all this stuff ends. If the USA got on Europe and UK's bad side.. the global establishment.. that may not in fact "make america great again," but it could just make us a poorer, isolated country, on the rest of the old allied world's sh*t list.
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Re: GOP Convention

Unread postby Sixstrings » Fri 22 Jul 2016, 03:06:44

Clinton campaign's statement:

Clinton: Trump 'painted a dark picture of America'

"Tonight, Donald Trump painted a dark picture of an America in decline. And his answer – more fear, more division, more anger, more hate — was yet another reminder that he is temperamentally unfit and totally unqualified to be President of the United States," campaign chairman John Podesta said in a statement shortly after Trump wrapped his lengthy address.

"He offered no real solutions to help working families get ahead or to keep our country safe, just more prejudice and paranoia. America is better than this. America is better than Donald Trump. Next week in Philadelphia, Democrats will focus on issues, not anger. We'll offer a positive vision for the future based on lifting America up, not tearing Americans down."
http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/288834-clinton-trump-painted-a-dark-picture-of-america


America actually IS in decline, or half of it is, anyway.

When Biden was in Australia -- he gave a whole speech to them, touting a bunch of figures saying that the US is doing so great.

He said US growth is 20 times Australia's, and 100 times Japan's. And it's right on the video, some Aussie said "really??" :lol:

Those figures sure sounded suspect to me. Goodness, half this country isn't even in the labor force.

On the other hand.. that doesn't mean electing a "Putin" or an "Erdogan" is a "good idea," either.

What Biden was correct about though, in Australia, is the strength of the US military and how advanced it is (that's no BS, that's all true). Biden bragged that we spend 8 times the next 8 nations, COMBINED.

The Establishment wants these trade deals done -- a Pacific deal, and a Europe deal.

The momentum and push for these things is so strong, and institutional, that I don't think Trump could change them much anyway. And that is what Obama says, that even if Trump is elected, essential government policy doesn't change.

So, I don't know folks.

I'll stick with the Establishment, if Trump is too odd.. AND if Clinton sounds CONVINCING, that she's really going to do something for the working and middle class.

She does need to do a BETTER job on that -- she doesn't realize how bad off a lot of the country is. If she doesn't wake up to that, Trump may actually win, just like Brexit did.

Establishment Republicans should WAKE UP TOO and join establishment D's -- $15 minimum wage. Raise some taxes on the rich. Establishment R's had better do this, or they may get an "Erdogan" in charge, and "Trump's America."

Will the Establishment wake up? I hope they do.

I think this election is the most significant, in our lifetimes. And I've never said that before.

It's really about internationalism, versus isolationism. WHICH is better? I frankly don't know. And add to that, I actually would not feel good about seeing those people in the little Baltics get run over. And, the idea we could have an "Erdogan" type president, is concerning (though of course he could never be so bad as that, that's just not possible in this country. He would be impeached.).
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Re: GOP Convention

Unread postby Sixstrings » Fri 22 Jul 2016, 03:39:12

Just to add, because my last post drifted to sounding "anti establishment." :lol:

* Biden was probably right with his GDP numbers he cited, but it's just that the GDP growth isn't trickling down to enough people.

All of the talking I've done.. and all the talking that is done about politics.. in the US anyway, the real honest truth is that corporations should have to pay a $15 minimum wage.. and yes, the super rich 1% should pay higher taxes.

And then voila, there wouldn't be this instability going on. And people voting "Trump."

About the trade deals, pacific and europe deal -- it WOULD increase GDP growth. So yes, the Establishment does have a plan. But again, it's just that they will not tax the super rich, they will not do some things to trickle some of this money down.

But anyhow, it's a plan anyway. The pivot to Asia is a big deal, long term future. The government is serious about it.

All the stuff Trump rants about -- why can't he just be an FDR? That's all the country needs, a genuine New Deal, really. And then keep on doing the other plans too, the pac and euro trade deals, and expanding US sphere.

Another factor about the "establishment" is that there really are important intangible values along with that, too. Human rights, democracy, rule of law. All that is not BS. For me to ever even consider voting Trump, I'd have to hear a lot more about that, from him.

If he can't talk about that stuff, then that makes me suspicious. WHY can't he talk about it? The only other kind of leaders that don't, is guys like Putin.

So those are my thoughts about it all.. this election is two different routes to go.. "Leave" or "Remain." If the US does a "brexit," then that is FAR MORE SERIOUS and would have vast repercussions, compared to UK (usa is at the TOP of the system).

It may not be good, folks.

No easy answers.
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Re: THE Republican (general) Thread pt 4

Unread postby Tanada » Tue 09 Aug 2016, 08:42:54

Am I the only one openly hoping both Paul Ryan and John McCain lose their elections today?
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Re: THE Republican (general) Thread pt 4

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Tue 09 Aug 2016, 09:36:42

Philosophically speaking, I agree with you. It never hurts to shed conventional, stick-in-the-mud politicians. However, I know nothing whatsoever about their rivals, so there is a danger that things will get worse, instead of better.

If we would learn what the human race really is at bottom, we need only observe it in election times.
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Re: THE Republican (general) Thread pt 4

Unread postby Tanada » Mon 19 Sep 2016, 09:23:25

Head of the Party Apparatus is no longer amuse by the Never Trump movement.

RNC chief Reince Priebus threatened John Kasich, Ted Cruz and Jeb Bush today on “Face the Nation” after their refusal to endorse record-setting GOP nominee Donald Trump.

Priebus said the RNC may block future runs by the Republican candidates who used tools from the RNC, then lied and refused to endorse the GOP presidential nominee.

Bush, Kasich and Cruz have yet to endorse Donald Trump.

Republican National Committee Chairman Reince Priebus during an appearance on Sunday’s edition CBS’ “Face the Nation,” said that it’s time for Donald Trump’s former primary challengers to support his campaign. Priebus even suggested there could be trouble for them in 2020 or 2024 if they don’t:

Those people need to get on board. And if they’re thinking they’re going to run again someday, I think that we’re going to evaluate the process – of the nomination process and I don’t think it’s going to be that easy for them.

Ohio Gov. John Kasich, Texas Sen. Ted Cruz, and former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush have still not yet endorsed Trump. And nobody really thinks they will.

When asked explicitly whether that meant there would be penalties for those 2016 Republican hopefuls who have not endorsed Trump if they run again in 2020 or 2024, Priebus said nothing has been decided but that it’s something the party will look at.

All 17 of the major Republican candidates signed a so-called “loyalty pledge” last summer stating that they would support the eventual Republican nominee “regardless of whom it is.” The pledge was the result of Trump suggesting that if the GOP didn’t play “fair” he might run as a third party. While the document is not legally binding, some states have “sore loser” laws that would prevent a candidate who appeared in a party’s primary and didn’t get the nomination from filing as an independent candidate in the general election.


http://www.teaparty.org/boom-priebus-wa ... mp-187939/
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Re: THE Republican (general) Thread pt 4

Unread postby Tanada » Fri 23 Sep 2016, 17:38:43

"After many months of careful consideration, of prayer and searching my own conscience, I have decided that on Election Day, I will vote for the Republican nominee, Donald Trump," Cruz wrote in a Facebook post.

"A year ago, I pledged to endorse the Republican nominee, and I am honoring that commitment. And if you don't want to see a Hillary Clinton presidency, I encourage you to vote for him."


http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/23/politics/ ... ald-trump/
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Re: THE Republican (general) Thread pt 4

Unread postby onlooker » Wed 16 Aug 2017, 16:05:47

http://splinternews.com/how-fossil-fuel ... 1797466298
Insight into the corrupt dealings of the religious right wing with nexus to FF money. Nothing surprising here
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Re: THE Republican (general) Thread pt 4

Unread postby asg70 » Wed 08 Nov 2017, 12:15:22

And so it begins...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/pow ... 8ba89b8f44

The GOP should start putting #ThanksTrump hashtags on their FB updates.

HALL OF SHAME:
-Short welched on a bet and should be shunned.
-Frequent-flyers should not cry crocodile-tears over climate-change.
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Re: THE Republican (general) Thread pt 4

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Wed 08 Nov 2017, 12:25:50

asg70 wrote:And so it begins...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/pow ... 8ba89b8f44

The GOP should start putting #ThanksTrump hashtags on their FB updates.

Well, that's the way democracy is supposed to work. Trump is turning out to be very bad, even compared to what sane anti-HRC voters feared. (I voted for neither HRC or Trump, as I considered both completely unacceptable in terms of credibility and integrity).

So, hopefully in 2020, we'll get somebody much better than Trump or HRC. I'd far rather have another Obama than an insane number-free reaction like Sanders though. (If assuming more taxing and spending fixes everything, we should be in FINE shape by now in the first world, generally, which isn't exactly so re debt and long term societal needs).
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: THE Republican (general) Thread pt 4

Unread postby Cog » Wed 08 Nov 2017, 12:38:17

NoVa makes the state blue when the majority, geographically speaking, of Virginia is red. This is not a anti-Trump backlash because the Republican distanced himself from Trump. This is a rejection of a Rino. Remember all those special congressional elections? Republicans won 4 of 5 of those.
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Re: THE Republican (general) Thread pt 4

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Wed 08 Nov 2017, 12:46:07

Cog wrote:NoVa makes the state blue when the majority, geographically speaking, of Virginia is red. This is not a anti-Trump backlash because the Republican distanced himself from Trump. This is a rejection of a Rino. Remember all those special congressional elections? Republicans won 4 of 5 of those.
Yes and the fifth one had already been blue so the Dems. haven't picked up a seat yet.
Not to say that the Dem's. won't pick up seats in 2018 . the opposition usually does. Trump could limit the damage in '18 by doing a better job between now and then. He could start by thinking before he tweets then think again, then seek expert advise then not tweet at all. :)
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