[careinke]

Are the Chinese selling US dollar-denominated assets to buy gold?

It sure looks that way. https://schiffgold.com/key-gold-news/ar ... -buy-gold/

They are.

They are also the second largest BTC miners, but the U.S. is still #1 the US.

Bard says:

As of October 25, 2023, Bitcoin miners in China account for about 21% of the total global BTC mining hash rate distribution.

This makes China the second largest Bitcoin mining country in the world, after the United States.

Fix the money, Fix the world

Peace

[theluckycountry]

The key to bitcoin mining, or verification profit, is cheap electricity. In China it's 8-cents kWh. In the US, 18-cents. Interesting that more isn't done there in China.

By the way, re out discussion on gold on the other thread, I typically post up data on the $US, but that is not what I work with of course. Here is the 5 year aussie chart.



As you can see it's over 50% higher than the US price and there is a marked uptick over the past year. That can be explained in terms of the $US strengthening against the $Au, since gold is still priced in US bucks. But either way It means that across nations in the western world gold keeps pace with the currency of account and ignores local currency fluctuations.

All this is coming to end now though with the advent of the BRICS multi-polar world. Who knows what will happen with pricing in the days ahead but the same happened when we went off the British sterling system and the market adjusted. I think perhaps the 50% increase in the US gold price in 1933 was that adjustment. The history books point to the fact that Britain went off the gold standard in 1931, and most other nations had as well, so they pegged their currencies to the now un-backed Pound for stability. But who set the price of Gold before 1931? Britain obviously, because it was the global Empire, the world police, even though it was bankrupted by WWI.
https://eh.net/encyclopedia/the-sterling-area/

Was the 50% increase in the US the beginning of a takeover? Who knows, who really cares. I'm off to town to do some shopping.

[yellowcanoe]

The key to bitcoin mining, or verification profit, is cheap electricity. In China it's 8-cents kWh. In the US, 18-cents. Interesting that more isn't done there in China.

Crypto trading and mining is banned in China. https://www.reuters.com/world/china/chi ... 021-09-24/

[careinke]

The key to bitcoin mining, or verification profit, is cheap electricity. In China it's 8-cents kWh. In the US, 18-cents. Interesting that more isn't done there in China.

Crypto trading and mining is banned in China. https://www.reuters.com/world/china/chi ... 021-09-24/

Well it's happening in reality, what can I say? BTC is an open book. I suspect it is the government actually doing the mining, or at least some people in the government.

My electricity costs about 7.5 cents per KWh. Maybe I'll get a couple of miners. Especially after Mike Johnson is the new speaker of the house.

BTC used to be connected to the Stock Market, not anymore. If you look at all the Major Banks, BTC is currently the inverse of the banks. If you flipped the banks stock chart upside down, you would think it was the current BTC chart.

Bard Says:

Yes, there is currently an inverse correlation between the BTC chart and major US banks.

This means that when the price of Bitcoin goes up, the stock prices of major US banks tend to go down, and vice versa. This is likely due to a number of factors, including:

Bitcoin is seen as a risk asset, while major US banks are seen as safe haven assets. When investors are feeling risky, they tend to put their money into risk assets like Bitcoin. When investors are feeling more cautious, they tend to put their money into safe haven assets like major US banks.
Bitcoin is seen as a competitor to the traditional financial system, which is dominated by major US banks. As Bitcoin becomes more popular and widely accepted, it could pose a threat to the profits and market share of major US banks.
Major US banks are facing increasing regulatory scrutiny, while Bitcoin is currently largely unregulated. This makes Bitcoin a more attractive investment for some investors, as they see it as a way to escape government regulation.
Here is a chart of the Bitcoin price and the S&P 500 Banks Index over the past year:
Bitcoin price and S&P 500 Banks Index chartOpens in a new window
http://www.investopedia.com
Bitcoin price and S&P 500 Banks Index chart

As you can see, the two charts have moved in opposite directions most of the time over the past year. This suggests that there is a strong inverse correlation between the two assets.

It is important to note that correlation does not equal causation. Just because Bitcoin and major US banks are inversely correlated does not mean that one causes the other to move. However, the strong correlation between the two assets does suggest that there is some underlying relationship between them.

Fix the money, Fix the world.

PEACE

[theluckycountry]

BTC used to be connected to the Stock Market, not anymore. If you look at all the Major Banks, BTC is currently the inverse of the banks.

Currently. But that could change in a week!

Bard Says:

Bard is Google's experimental, conversational, AI chat service. It's a smart word computer, it's not an artificial intelligence. A.I. is just a 'Brand' used to sell stock, to lure investment capital, to get grants. If you are relying on it to make serious decisions you are kidding yourself. It's a good example of how Hollywood genres influences people's rational thought processes.

Bitcoin is seen as a risk asset

Very true, though the word asset is used here with some liberality. You could make the claim that a lottery ticket is an asset too.

Fix the money, Fix the world.

You cannot leave control of currency to a group of anonymous web developers, it must be controlled by national governments, by people accountable to ALL. Certainly paper currency (or it's digital equivalents now) are prone to debasement over time, that's just the nature of the world. I mean you wouldn't hide steaks or loafs of bread under a mattress for 20 years would you, nor should you hoard currency, except in times of deflation.

Only one group of commodities, precious metals, has proved itself over the course of human history to act as money, At All Times. Expecting a highly volatile un-backed largely unused computer dependent representation of money to fulfill this function going forward into the future is totally unrealistic. For one we are heading into a darkage, literally, an age where electricity is becoming unreliable and may well be not available for many of people on the planet in the decades to come.

The BC claim that's it's people's money was valid when it was used for pizza but it functions now as a buy and hope financial play. Any usage as money now is simply a marketing ploy to get more people to buy into the scheme. In fact if any crypto was ever to become used as money the last choice would be bitcoin because of it's high transaction fees. Dogecoin for example would be a better choice, but it was a pump and dump as we have seen. The crypto sphere is just another techie swindle that the wheels haven't completely fallen off yet.

[theluckycountry]

BTC used to be connected to the Stock Market, not anymore. If you look at all the Major Banks, BTC is currently the inverse of the banks.

Currently. But that could change in a week!

Bard Says:

Bard is Google's experimental, conversational, AI chat service. It's a smart word computer, it's not an artificial intelligence. A.I. is just a 'Brand' used to sell stock, to lure investment capital, to get grants. If you are relying on it to make serious decisions you are kidding yourself. It's a good example of how Hollywood genres influences people's rational thought processes.

Bitcoin is seen as a risk asset

Very true, though the word asset is used here with some liberality. You could make the claim that a lottery ticket is an asset too.

Fix the money, Fix the world.

You cannot leave control of currency to a group of anonymous web developers, it must be controlled by national governments, by people accountable to ALL. Certainly paper currency (or it's digital equivalents now) are prone to debasement over time, that's just the nature of the world. I mean you wouldn't hide steaks or loafs of bread under a mattress for 20 years would you, nor should you hoard currency, except in times of deflation.

Only one group of commodities, precious metals, has proved itself over the course of human history to act as money, At All Times. Expecting a highly volatile un-backed largely unused computer dependent representation of money to fulfill this function going forward into the future is totally unrealistic. For one we are heading into a darkage, literally, an age where electricity is becoming unreliable and may well be not available for many of people on the planet in the decades to come.

The BC claim that's it's people's money was valid when it was used for pizza but it functions now as a buy and hope financial play. Any usage as money now is simply a marketing ploy to get more people to buy into the scheme. In fact if any crypto was ever to become used as money the last choice would be bitcoin because of it's high transaction fees. Dogecoin for example would be a better choice, but it was a pump and dump as we have seen. The crypto sphere is just another techie swindle that the wheels haven't completely fallen off yet.

[careinke]

Then I would tell you those 139 countries need to Adopt Bitcoin, a pharmaceutical grade of gold, and start mining. They will find a lot of rich supporters.

Bitcoin does not discriminate against the poor, and gives no special access to the rich.

Back to the forum topic, I was disappointed to see gold rejected from the $2K psychological resistance level, for a while there I thought it had broken through.

Peace

[theluckycountry]

Back to the forum topic, I was disappointed to see gold rejected from the $2K psychological resistance level, for a while there I thought it had broken through.

Yes it's fallen back, but so has OIL. Oil and Gold have moved in similar directions for a long time and Oil is down from the mid $90's to the low $80's over the past weeks. I used to watch the rise and fall of the gold price with great interest but not today so much. It's not what it's worth now that matters so much as what it will be worth when I begin to sell it in 10 or 15 years. That will be a whole different world I imagine.

Realistically the Oil price could be lower by then, that's something most of the peak-oil herd, myself included, got wrong from the beginning. It was never about how much oil was left, it was all about how much oil is being consumed out of what is left. The Magic Virus lockdowns must have removed 50% of demand for Gasoline over that period, the collapse of countries like Sri lanka removed more. Collapse the world's economies and you could easily remove a large fraction of the demand both for Diesel and Gasoline fractions.

One thing I am convinced of though. The Elites running this Western show have a plan and there is little we can do about it than try and insulate ourselves from the nastier aspects of it.

[theluckycountry]

To try and bring some understanding to the business of Gold buying I will take a different tact. Most people consider the practice of Gold buying to be a hedge, or a play, or an investment. But the vast majority of small buyers, and I would argue central banks, don't have this perspective at all.

Consider money saved in a bank account, what is that? It's purely savings for a rainy day, for a retirement fund, or some other tangible use. This is the reason many of us buy Gold, we want to save, with little to no risk and we don't want to exposed to what we have seen for the past decade. Extremely low rates of interest on our savings. Neither do we want a big WIN as many today seek. We actually get nervous when it shoots up, we don't want that because we know at some point it will correct. We like stability. Consider the following chart of Gold in Aussie dollars.



Now go to the website here https://goldprice.org/gold-price-australia.html and select the name of any stable country from the dropdown menu below the chart. You'll basically see the same curve, Gold rising at a steady pace to inflation.

Canadian


Japanese


Norway


Now the USA dollar price



Wow! What's going on there? Much greater fluctuation basically. Even though Gold is priced in $US, internationally it reflects a nation's own currency debasement. I think this is what upsets US observers. they don't see the stable appreciation over time the rest of us do.

The next level up of savings vehicle would be stocks in blue-chips, 'Coke' etc. This provides a dividend as well, but the gains are also subject big taxes, plus the basic GFC style volatility. No, Gold is by far the safest savings vehicle, it protects the savings and offers an inflation hedge as time passes. Much better than cash in the bank and much safer too.

[careinke]

Gold passed it's all time high yesterday, breaching the previous record set 10 years ago. Unfortunately, the purchasing power of one ounce of gold has depreciated over 40% in the same time period. So if you sold today you would have decreased your real wealth by 40%.

Worse, If you continue to hold as the price rises, you are subject to paying taxes on the dollar gain from your sale, in addition to the already inflation stolen wealth.

Sounds like a bad deal to me, get out now and limit your losses.

Peace

[theluckycountry]

Gold passed it's all time high yesterday, breaching the previous record set 10 years ago. Unfortunately, the purchasing power of one ounce of gold has depreciated over 40% in the same time period. So if you sold today you would have decreased your real wealth by 40%.

More hurried posts careinke? Are you even reading these posts? The charts above (that you didn't look at) explain your error. Better re-do your maths on a 3 year timescale eh. But why you quoted me though is a mystery because I live in Australia, and the Australian Gold price has kept nicely with inflation all along. Perhaps the corrupt $US pricing will collapse under the BRICS system though and give you guys a break. But if that happens, the inflation hedge of Gold will be the least of your worries I assure you.

[careinke]

Lucky,

Weird, Starting point: December 3, 2013: 1 AUD = 1.05 USD
Current point: December 3, 2023: 1 AUD = 0.6665 USD

This means that it now takes more AUD (1.50) to buy the same amount of USD (1) compared to 10 years ago.

In the meantime BTC just broke 41K. Interested yet?? Wow BTC now costs 41600 USD * 0.6665 AUD/USD = 62,557.25 AUD

I think your charts are backwards.

Peace

[noobtube]

Why do Bitcoin fans gloss over its wild energy consumption?

Bitcoin and cryptocurrency never solved the problems they claimed existed.

For the amount of energy Bitcoin uses, you could power every single family home in Chicago, New York, and Boston.

If people had a choice, would it be free electricity, or Bitcoin?

Bitcoin is government-imposed. It is an attempt by the United States government to undermine the price of gold to keep the United States dollar relevant.

No one cares about dollars themselves. They care about the credit system built around it. The United States government is in business to protect the dollar at all costs. If that means creating an unnecessary, so-called alternative like Bitcoin, then so be it.

Anyone who believes Bitcoin or cryptocurrency are any alternative to the dollar have fallen directly in-step with the Federal government agenda to protect the United States dollar as world reserve currency. Because what are all cryptocurrencies priced in... United States dollars.

Dollars only have value because they can buy gold. The only value of Bitcoin is to get dollars. You can not buy anything of value with Bitcoin itself.

Unfortunately for the dollar lovers, China, Russia, Saudi Arabia, and Iran have other plans. And, Bitcoin is not included.

[theluckycountry]

Lucky,

Weird, Starting point: December 3, 2013: 1 AUD = 1.05 USD
Current point: December 3, 2023: 1 AUD = 0.6665 USD

This means that it now takes more AUD (1.50) to buy the same amount of USD (1) compared to 10 years ago.

Oh, so you're talking about gold in Aussie dollars now? Say that in your post next time. And are you trying to make the case that it's the same price in Oz as it was a decade ago because of fluctuations in the US-OZ currency. You crypto heads are really out there you know, wtf does it matter what the currency exchange rate is unless we are buying our gold from the US? We don't, we are one of the world's largest producers. If I bought gold here in 2013 @$1500 (Oz) I can sell it today in 2023 @ $3000, that's a 100% gain (minus dealer fees) and that is well ahead of inflation here I assure you. The US buck exchange doesn't come into it.

Now go back to your screen and check the bitcoin price again, and again, and again. I'm off for brunch, without my smartphone. I don't check the price of gold hourly or daily or weekly, I don't need to because I know that it hasn't entered a bubble launch like crypto. Remember. What goes up up up, always goes down down down

[careinke]

Actually, I'm talking about what you can buy with that ounce of gold. You know, like food, a car, a movie ticket, a bottle of booze, etc. etc.

Peace

[theluckycountry]

Bitcoin is government-imposed. It is an attempt by the United States government to undermine the price of gold to keep the United States dollar relevant.

It's a way to tax the poorer millennials. They couldn't afford houses, they didn't really understand stocks, but being addicted to their phones they though they knew all about 'tech' and the crypto was designed to entice them like a good video game is. So it's pump and dump and half of them buy it on their credit cards so the bank gets its share, the government gets it's GDP numbers and the millennials get a fun game on their iphones. "Oh it will revolutionize the world"

Here's the latest from their guru.
Bitcoin Could Skyrocket to $10 Million Overnight - Here's Why” | Michael Saylor
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKlLZaXijkM

[careinke]

Here's the latest from their guru.
Bitcoin Could Skyrocket to $10 Million Overnight - Here's Why” | Michael Saylor
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKlLZaXijkM

Soon to be the richest person on the planet. Have you checked out his credentials? He started buying BTC at the top of the last cycle and is still in the green.

Peace

[theluckycountry]

Still in the Green? You know discussing finance, or anything else for that matter, with someone who just Blurts out sentences with no corroborating evidence is really quite pointless. It invariably turns into an educational experience where the student just keeps looking out the window, or in your case, staring at their phone screen.

Saylors' bitcoin is enmeshed in his microstrategy company, which absorbs all the losses.

Nov 1, 2023 Co-founder Michael Saylor has turned the once struggling software company into a Bitcoin proxy for equity investors by accumulating more than $5.5 billion of the cryptocurrency.

...The $33.6 million impairment loss for the quarter brings the cumulative total to over $2.2 billion, meaning the company has written off almost half the Bitcoin purchases it has made

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/saylor-s-mi ... -1.1992721

No more pointless posts please ci

Truthdig:

What happens to regular folks who thought they were onto something big?

PH: They lose all their student loan allowance for the semester. Or their pension. The whales, the large majority holders, walk away with even more money. This stuff preys on the little guy who doesn’t have access to the resources the whale investors have. You can’t beat the whales. The system is completely unregulated and it’s rigged in their favor.

One of the biggest institutional investors of Bitcoin is billionaire Michael Saylor, co-founder of a company called MicroStrategy. He’s the queen bee of the Bitcoin hornets, mustering his following to do whatever he says just on the weight of his token holdings. He’s done this openly. He’s set up the Bitcoin Mining Council, a body which is trying to enhance the image of crypto in very profound ways, like “greenwashing” [making crypto look environmentally friendly] and bringing big tech players like Elon Musk into Bitcoin and the crypto space generally.

A lot of the wash trading and market manipulation is done underground and pseudonymously so we don’t know who is doing it, but in other ways it’s very, very open. That’s deliberate, to try and get people to jump on the gravy train.

https://www.truthdig.com/articles/is-cr ... n-history/

How many have jumped on the gravy train with this last pumping? How many billions have been added to CC balances in the desperate hope of climbing out of poverty?

TD halts cryptocurrency purchases made on its credit cards https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/td-halts-cr ... -1.1008731

Feb 23, 2018 And then the bitcoin price crashed.

11 Ways to Buy Bitcoin with a Credit Card https://99bitcoins.com/buy-bitcoin/credit-card/

[careinke]

All the way to the bank buddy.

Peace

[theluckycountry]

Yes, each to his/her own hey careinki
Peace.