[Ibon]

I wanted to add something about the drift in American culture in reference to this political resentment and how it has grown.

Back in the 50's and 60's your average American had the belief, maybe somewhat naive, but also accurate, that there was a common good and that politicians were public servants and that government was primarily serving the needs of the people.

The 80's and 90's saw the beginnings of cynicism growing slowly with the public's view of government say all the way up to 9/11. Most Americans viewed their government a little less favorably, recognized incompetence and waste but still resisted seeing government as willfully deceitful and self serving.

The first 15 years of the 21st century you see the drift moving from incompetence to self serving full stop. The power of lobbyists over politicians, corporations rigging the system, financial sector corrupt, etc, etc, We see today the drift landing at a very distrustful place were most Americans today cant even remember a time when they viewed their government in that wholesome way back in the 50's and 60's were their role was as public servants. Even if back then this was a bit of illusion it did represent how most Americans viewed their government.

This is quite a radical shift in 50 years. From wholesome public servants to incompetence and then a big leap to willful self serving parasites.

This explains a part of the resentment that sweeps both political parties.

[KaiserJeep]

KJ, I did not mean to imply that you are entitled. I was more pointing out that there are many facets. You were explaining this anti-democratic resentment which does not tell the whole story. It's part of a deeper phenomenon.

The political polarity has reached extremes where the polarity and differences overwhelms the common sense of cohesion that in the past would allow a democrat and republican to both in a civil way express their differences. This is increasingly rare. The lack of cohesion is also related to how those neighborhoods in California fall along distinct ethnic identities.

You see, I think that analysis is flawed. I have never in my life been a registered member of any political party. My voting history has included both Democrats and Republicans but mostly Independents and Libertarians.

What I am is somebody with considered and conservative opinions. Perhaps you need to look up "Classical Liberal", because it's pretty far from being a neolib Democrat.

I've also lived in California for 30 years as of last January. I come by the resentment of Democrats quite honestly, earnestly, and after prolonged consideration.

Note also that my toney suburb has much cohesion, we have block parties several times a year, and regular Homeowners Association meetings. Even so, we might not be as tight as some of the Barrios where the Norteños and Sureños territories border on one another. Those folks fight their neighbors in the next block together, they have plenty of cohesion.

[Ibon]

I've also lived in California for 30 years as of last January. I come by the resentment of Democrats quite honestly, earnestly, and after prolonged consideration.

Recognizing your honest and earnest conclusion and prolonged consideration how are you voting this November if I may ask?

If I do vote I will vote for clinton. Like many I do not like her political views. A vote for Trump for me is a vote for dismantling. Something Loki said. He would maybe vote for Trump just to disrupt a flawed status quo. I can't go there as I see Donald lacking any vision beyond his personal distorted narcissism and the fact that you cant peg him. At least with Clinton you know what you hate and what you could accept.

[SeaGypsy]

OmG I'm probably related to KJ, my ancestors left Cork in 1828, the first on Mother's side.

[KaiserJeep]

-snip-

Recognizing your honest and earnest conclusion and prolonged consideration how are you voting this November if I may ask?

If I do vote I will vote for clinton. Like many I do not like her political views. A vote for Trump for me is a vote for dismantling. Something Loki said. He would maybe vote for Trump just to disrupt a flawed status quo. I can't go there as I see Donald lacking any vision beyond his personal distorted narcissism and the fact that you cant peg him. At least with Clinton you know what you hate and what you could accept.

I wish I had the option of voting FOR somebody. It will either be Johnson (L) or if the race is tight and HRC is ahead, reluctantly for Trump. But whatever I do, the State always goes Democrat in all electoral votes. (48 states and the DC are winner-take-all, only Maine and Nebraska award electoral votes by proportional representation by Congressional district.) There is very little chance that California will go Republican, although it has happened.

My take is it doesn't really matter what Clinton or Trump do or say between now and November. Every Muslim terrorist incident anywhere, but especially in the USA, tilts the playing field towards Trump. HRC is not credible as a protector, any more than Obama. People believe - rightly or wrongly - that Trump will hammer terrorists, build a wall on the Southern border, and keep the oil flowing across the Atlantic in supertankers.

[Hawkcreek]

Y
What I am is somebody with considered and conservative opinions. Perhaps you need to look up "Classical Liberal", because it's pretty far from being a neolib Democrat.

I've also lived in California for 30 years as of last January. I come by the resentment of Democrats quite honestly, earnestly, and after prolonged consideration.

When you say you will be the first in line for a hunting permit for democrats or union members, you have said everything anyone needs to know about you.
You have joined a group, and forgotten how to think about issues - you hate a group, not caring that some of them feel the same as you do about certain issues.
That is the problem with politics - group think is the only think.

[KaiserJeep]

What the situation actually would be is that after 30 years in California, and several years before that living outside of Chicago and New Orleans, I am so familiar with the Democratic party planks that I have made a judgement call that all earnest and true believers are a net liability for the survival of the race, the planet, and our modern civilization. Add to that a stomach-churning level of corruption - I observed the older Mayor Daley, Earl Long (brother of the Kingfish) and the Kennedy/Shriver clan from close range.

Nor do I revere Republicans, nor have I ever been one. In fact, all the present problems we have can be credibly traced to one major party or another - and overall blame apportions about 55/45 percent Democrat/Republican.

I must say that in the present sorry state of politics, anybody who has faith in either major party is either blind, stupid, or not paying attention.

Nor did I ever say I would not also hunt Republicans. But I obey game laws all the time, and I need the proper tags and hunting license, and I'll only take these varmints in season. Trump after all will probably not have a season on Republicans, you have to respect the regulations about such things.

[onlooker]

that I have made a judgement call that all earnest and true believers are a net liability for the survival of the race, the planet, and our modern civilization

Curious, because I have made the same judgement call about the GOP for their refusal to even accept AGW.

[KaiserJeep]

In the end, AGW is moot, and anybody who thinks otherwise has not thought things through.

If you understand the central theme of PO.com, then you understand that we have already peaked. Unconventional sources of oil combined with weakening demand due to a rotten economy have produced a fuel glut, but it won't last. There will be somewhere between 1-4 decades before the oil fuels are for all practical purposes, gone. The exact timing depends more upon psychology than anything else - whenever the panic sets in - and thus is hard to forecast. Then we really will stop burning oil, completely and everywhere. We are never going to actually prove if that AGW theory was accurate or not. Certainly, I don't think it is.

We might more than make up for this by burning coal, but you never know. I hate coal, myself - it's the deadliest and thus the worst power source we have. But in all too many places, coal will replace oil and gas. It's just that after the crash, we won't be using that much coal, because most humans will be dead.

[ennui2]

If ETP is your "holy-grail" as you call it, then you should have typed in 0-4 YEARS, not decades.

[Newfie]

There are several scenarios running that can individually take humanity down.
Over population
Resource depletion
Global financial collapse
Drug resistance.
AGW

Why argue about which one gets us first?

If you want to resent, and do it in a fair and comprehensive, then you need to resent humanity as a whole for we are all part of the problem.

So yeah, folks resent this or that, it's just a way of blaming the other guy and not owning your own role in this mess.

[ennui2]

It's a demand dearth

Please try to stay grounded in the world we're living in. Happy-motoring summer road trips don't jive with demand-dearth.

[KaiserJeep]

I know it's not a popular viewpoint around here, but I'm planning to live on after the crash. Realistically I'll be dead of old age within 20 years, the family genetics pretty much guarantees that. I'll leave behind some memories of kindly old Grandpa, and a pretty nice doomstead.

I mean, quit yer bitchin and just make plans already. The race has seen tough times before, it's one way of weeding out the genes for stupid.

[ralfy]

Crises take place even before oil is "gone" or production reaches a peak.

[Ibon]

Crises takes place before the physical depletion. Something else takes place as well........cultural adaptation and or cultural suicide.

[ennui2]

Oil production has not kept up and never will.

We're still in a glut.