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THE Natural Gas Thread Pt. 2

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.

Re: The Future of Natural Gas - An Interview with Raymond Le

Unread postby pstarr » Mon 04 Jun 2012, 14:14:13

Plantagenet wrote:
pstarr wrote:
Oilguy wrote:The New York Times Vendetta Against Natural Gas

New York times does not do vendettas


The New York Times ownership is dominated by extremely wealthy people like Carlos Slim of Mexico. They are also closely tied to other parts of the New York corporate elite, including Citigroup and their Saudi money. The NY Times has even given space on its editorial page directly to Saudi Prince Alwaleed.

Of course the NY Times and other parts of the MSM are strongly influenced by their corporate masters, and often push agendas that favor their corporate owners. Call it a vendetta or call it bias----I'm surprised that you don't realize that the NYT and every other part of the MSM has agendas and pushes viewpoints.
Dude, I am as paranoid as the next Truther per se, but I really don't see a secret cabal of natural-gas enemies, a concerted effort by the Saudi's, Carlos Slim, and Thomas Friedman to bury this story. Seems kind of tin-foily to me.

I hope you two have dis-invested from Chesapeake et.al. You must have heard that the fract scam/bubble has burst? Right?
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Re: The Future of Natural Gas - An Interview with Raymond Le

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 04 Jun 2012, 14:43:36

pstarr wrote:I hope you two have dis-invested from Chesapeake et.al.


You don't get it. ---

You sell stocks when they are HIGH and you start your due diligence process when prices are LOW.

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Get it now? 8)
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Re: The Future of Natural Gas - An Interview with Raymond Le

Unread postby pstarr » Mon 04 Jun 2012, 14:54:40

Plantagenet wrote:
pstarr wrote:I hope you two have dis-invested from Chesapeake et.al.


You don't get it. ---

You buy stocks when they are LOW and you sell when they go UP.

Get it now? 8)

I guess that makes you smarter than the other playa's who were pumping that crap at peak.

Gotta have "investors" right? But the initial $5 million/well cost has escalated to $8.5 mil? So this means Chesapeake will need $9/tcf to stay in business. Where is the market now? $2? What did GW used to say? "burn me once, shame on me, burn me twice, huh?"
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Re: The Future of Natural Gas - An Interview with Raymond Le

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 04 Jun 2012, 15:00:47

pstarr wrote:I guess that makes you smarter than the other playa's


Yup. I even know how to spell the word "player" correctly.

pstarr wrote:So you see another round of ready investors?


People are buying and selling millions of shares of CHK every day. There is no shortage of investors now.
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Re: The Future of Natural Gas - An Interview with Raymond Le

Unread postby pstarr » Mon 04 Jun 2012, 15:25:40

Plantagenet wrote:
pstarr wrote:I guess that makes you smarter than the other playa's


Yup. I even know how to spell the word "player" correctly.

But I meant this kind of playa;
Image

The smooth cat who knows when to time it just right.

The guy or gal who gets in . . . and then gets out.

Know what I mean? Huh?

Plantagenet wrote:
pstarr wrote:So you see another round of ready investors?


There is no shortage of investors now.
There will be.
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Natural gas fuel uses.

Unread postby ronwagn » Thu 08 Nov 2012, 12:19:15

I don't know if or where I fit in on this blog, but I am a proponent of natural gas as a cleaner and cheaper fuel than gasoline and diesel. My goal is to use this resource worldwide for the benefit of all economies, and for the environmental benefits. I would appreciate any suggestions on threads along the alternative fuels line etc.

This is my spiel: Natural gas is the future of energy. It is replacing dirty old coal plants, and dangerous expensive nuclear plants. It will fuel cars, vans, buses, locomotives, aircraft, ships, tractors, engines of all kinds. It costs far less. It will help keep us out of more useless wars, where we shed our blood and money. It lowers CO2 emissions. Over 2,600 natural gas story links on my blog. An annotated bibliography of live links, updated daily. The big picture of natural gas.
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Energy is all around us. Just learn to use it in harmony with the environment.
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Re: Natural gas fuel uses.

Unread postby kuidaskassikaeb » Wed 14 Nov 2012, 16:02:23

Dear Ronwagn;

I gotta say, transportation is not a good place for this stuff. Having just spent 2 days at a natural gas explosion,
not this one. This one is great if you like to watch things blow up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTQrVXEPQrM

This one was actually using liquified natural gas. A car would probably used pressurized gas.

Since 100 cubic feet of gas contains about the same amount of energy as a gallon of gas 20 gallons of gas would require 2000 cubic feet of gas. A 10 gallon tank is about 2.5 cubic feet. So the gas would have to be pressurized to say 800 atmospheres. Well thats too much so lets so 4000psi. That is a bomb :shock: , even before the gas burns, and causes another explosion. Frankly I just don't see how you can solve this problem.
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Re: Natural gas fuel uses.

Unread postby ronwagn » Wed 14 Nov 2012, 20:22:28

It is actually safer than gasoline, and has been used since the sixties. Gasoline or natural gas are explosive.
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Re: Natural gas fuel uses.

Unread postby kuidaskassikaeb » Fri 16 Nov 2012, 09:10:36

Your right.

They solved the problem by putting in a half inch thick tank that takes up half the trunk, and only gives 150 miles range, but they did solve it.

You learn something new every day.
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Re: Natural gas fuel uses.

Unread postby basil_hayden » Fri 16 Nov 2012, 13:24:43

I'll stick with my energy dense liquid petroleum, thank you very much.
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Re: The Future of Natural Gas - An Interview with Raymond Le

Unread postby Graeme » Tue 18 Dec 2012, 16:38:12

Sasol's Answer to the Natural Gas Highway: Convert the Fuel

Two weeks ago, Sasol, Ltd (a South African company) announced its intention to invest between $16 and $21 bn in an integrated gas-to-liquids (GTL) and ethane cracker complex in Westlake Louisiana. According to the company press release, the complex is expected to create 1,253 direct jobs with salaries averaging $88,000. This would constitute one of the largest foreign direct investments ever contemplated in the US, and represent one of the top ten economic drivers in Louisiana, and the state is reportedly paying $2bn in tax incentives for the privilege.

The project would yield an estimated 96,000 barrels of diesel per day, with 48,000 bb/day to be delivered in an initial phase and the remainder to follow in a second. The ethane cracker would produce 1.5 million tons annually of ethylene – a basic element used in the chemical industry.

Sasol has been in the synthetic fuels business for over half a century, deriving its initial experience in South Africa when the country was isolated during the apartheid years, and it produced liquid fuels from coal turned to syngas. In 2007, it constructed a large GTL plant to take advantage of Qatar‘s abundant gas resources, and it now has facilities planned or under construction in a number of countries such as Nigeria, Uzbekistan, and Canada.

Sasol’s move to the US is driven by the shale gas boom. As stated on their website: “Along with the de-linking of oil and gas prices, and the abundance of gas at relatively low prices in North America, Sasol is well positioned to convert the low-priced gas into high-value transport fuels.”

The technology to be utilized is the Fischer Tropsch process, the same technology to be used to convert landfill gas to airline fuel for British Airways starting in 2014. The aviation company recently announced it was committing to purchase $500 mn worth over ten years. And while tried and true, the 90-year old technology is also expensive at scale. An article in yesterday’s NY Times highlighted a cost overrun of 3X for Royal Dutch Shell’s $19 bn Pearl plant in Qatar, as well as a joint effort by Exxon Mobil and Conoco Phillips that never got off the ground.

According to the NY Times, the economics only work when there is a significant arbitrage opportunity between the price of natural gas and the price of oil, where those prices are around $4 per thousand cubic feet and $100 for oil, and production capital costs are kept in line. It works at those prices because at $4 per mmBtu, the energy contained in natural gas is priced at the equivalent of $24 per barrel of crude oil, according to the Financial Times.

Sasol’s bet is an interesting variant of the so-called natural gas highway, and it approaches the same holy grail from an entirely different angle: Clean Energy, Shell Oil and others are building out the natural gas highway infrastructure, dotting the landscape with LNG and CNG stations. Meanwhile the major truck engine manufacturers are developing and manufacturing engines to run directly on natural gas.

By contrast, Sasol plans to leave the highway infrastructure and engine conversion to those other parties. They intend to convert gas into diesel for existing engines and infrastructure (don’t raise the bridge, lower the river).

Both approaches involve investments in the billions and rely on a healthy spread between low-priced natural gas and more costly petroleum-derived diesel.


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This Natural Gas Find Could Completely Change the World

Unread postby Graeme » Sun 03 Nov 2013, 16:41:48

This Natural Gas Find Could Completely Change the World As We Know It

One thing that makes the energy sector so intriguing is the constant overlap between markets and politics. In many ways, energy security is synonymous with national security, and the supply and demand needs of the oil market can make the most unlikely bedfellows. One country that has been at the center of energy and politics for decades has been Israel. For years the country has been dependent upon foreign energy sources, but a major discovery by Noble Energy (NYSE: NBL ) and its partners has turned this situation on its head. Let's look how this massive natural gas find could affect both the political landscape and the pockets of major oil companies like ExxonMobil (NYSE: XOM ) .

With a name like Leviathan, it has to be big

In 2010, Noble Energy and its partners found something in Israel's offshore region that the country had been looking for since the oil embargoes of the 1970's; its own hydrocarbons. You might say that the company and the country found more than they could have hoped for. The Tamar and Leviathan fields are estimated to have as much as 30 trillion cubic feet of natural gas, which is enough gas to supply Israel for decades even if it were to convert all of its energy consumption from coal and oil to natural gas -- with enough left over to export. Noble Energy estimates that this gas field and the planned export projects could net the country more than $130 billion in energy savings and government revenue from gas royalties.


Image

Of course, Israel isn't the only one making out from this deal, either. The nation's proven reserves account for more than 30% of Noble's proved reserves, and will likely be one of the company's premier energy plays for decades to come. On top of that, the U.S. Geological Survey estimates there are more than 600 million barrels of recoverable oil in the Leviathan field, which could boost the company's reserves by another 17%.


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Re: This Natural Gas Find Could Completely Change the World

Unread postby diemos » Sun 03 Nov 2013, 17:15:45

Why can't they ever use an accurate title for their article?

"This Natural Gas Find Could Slightly Delay the Exhaustion of our Resources"

There, fixed that for you.
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Re: This Natural Gas Find Could Completely Change the World

Unread postby Graeme » Sun 03 Nov 2013, 17:38:30

Yes, it is an unfortunate title but please read rest of article. There are two issues described - one geopolitical and the other cost of NG.

Thirty trillion cubic feet of natural gas and 600 million barrels of oil is not a monumental amount in terms of the global energy landscape. But the combination of the size of the find, its proximity to a major demand center (Europe), and the fact that it's found in Israel could lead to several issues that might leave some major oil and gas powers not too happy.


More importantly, though, Noble estimates that Israeli and Cypriot LNG terminals could together undercut both American and Australian LNG export prices, which could drive down natural gas costs for Europe. This could reduce the profitability of major LNG players like Qatar, where ExxonMobil has a 25%-30% working interest in two of that nation's largest LNG terminals.
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Re: This Natural Gas Find Could Completely Change the World

Unread postby tim89 » Mon 04 Nov 2013, 10:22:48

diemos wrote:Why can't they ever use an accurate title for their article?

"This Natural Gas Find Could Slightly Delay the Exhaustion of our Resources"

There, fixed that for you.


That sounds far more accurate.
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Re: This Natural Gas Find Could Completely Change the World

Unread postby rollin » Mon 04 Nov 2013, 22:23:38

So are they going to sell the natural gas to pay for solar panels and converting their energy and transportation systems? If they just burn it they will end up in the same place just years later.
Once in a while the peasants do win. Of course then they just go and find new rulers, you think they would learn.
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Re: This Natural Gas Find Could Completely Change the World

Unread postby FoxV » Thu 07 Nov 2013, 11:04:23

With a name like Leviathan, it has to be big

I love that one. Nope, with a name like leviathan it means somebody gave it a name like leviathan.

35Tcf and 600Mbbl is inconsequential on the world stage and not even worth discussing. Start adding 0s to those numbers and we have something to talk about.

just for a matter of perspective, officially Russia, Europe's biggest supplier, alone has 1600Tcf of gas and 60B (that's Billion with a B) barrels of oil (unofficial and fracking resources could put both these numbers much higher)

So "completely change the world" headline is quite laughable and makes me suspicious the author is trying to sell something
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Re: The Future of Natural Gas - An Interview with Raymond Le

Unread postby Subjectivist » Tue 31 Jan 2017, 15:20:45

Mmasters, this is what I was trying to describe with my earlier response here,
gasoline-to-ng-how-many-years-does-the-us-have-of-ng-t73195.html
II Chronicles 7:14 if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land.
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Re: The Future of Natural Gas - An Interview with Raymond Le

Unread postby coffeeguyzz » Tue 31 Jan 2017, 16:37:29

If you folks have not seen pictures of Qatar's Pearl plant, the Google images offer impressive shots.

The varying Adsorbed Natural Gas breakthroughs in the last couple years is spurring furious efforts amongst competing companies to commercialize CNG in the American and Chinese marketplace.
Interesting times.
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THE Natural Gas Thread Pt. 2

Unread postby coffeeguyzz » Wed 17 May 2017, 15:34:28

Pennsylvania DEP just released March production numbers the other day.
Big evolution in completions is obvious as 20/30 MMcfd flow rates for weeks (months?) are becoming routine.
5 well pad from Cabot, the King pad, has produced over 22 Bcf in less than 8 months online.
A new outfit, Travis Peak, just brought online it's very first well, a Utica up in Tioga county.
Online 21 days and over 258,000 MMcf already.
Shell has been developing Utica wells in Tioga for a few years now and only recently seems to produce consistent high producers.
A 3 well pad - the Gee - has been online under 5 months with the wells producing near 2 Bcf each.
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