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PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

THE Motorcycle, Moped and Electric Bike Thread (merged)

How to save energy through both societal and individual actions.

Re: oil and food

Unread postby WebHubbleTelescope » Thu 09 Sep 2004, 00:30:04

Read this article, then re-compute your math for the amount of gasoline a day per person using this: link

Whoopee, It can go up a 12 degree incline! I suppose at 13 degrees, it just gives up and you are forced to walk it up the hill. Or maybe you can just circumnavigate the hill. I guess that's entirely feasible, unless you happen to live in the Rockies. In which case you might have to look for some mountain pass. I would recommend avoiding Donner Pass however; word is that if you get stuck there on your little electric trike and don't have snow chains for the long hard winter, you might be cannibalized, or worse, mistaken for cord wood and recycled by the folks at the NREL or, heaven forbid, the Lovins clan at RMI.
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Unread postby gg3 » Thu 09 Sep 2004, 07:06:19

Re. accident casualties: Okeydoke, Jay, I'll take it as a serious-point or a humorous-point, either way it adds up to a net reduction in commuters:-)

Mark_i: YES YES YES, the 300-MPG Volkswagen! If these things were put into mass production I would camp out at the dealer's door overnight to be the first in town to have one. (Some estimates put the fuel efficiency at 310 mpg, where'd you get 265?)

And the darn thing is as sleek as a jet fighter, with a nod to the classic 1950s Messerschmitt in its design. Fast, sexy, comfortable, convenient to park, and the kind of efficiency that will enable us to retain personal automobility far into the future. Win-win on all levels.
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vw

Unread postby WebHubbleTelescope » Thu 09 Sep 2004, 08:01:02

Many, many more people will go for an enclosed VW high-mileage single-seater than a Honda scooter.

IMHO
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Unread postby gg3 » Thu 09 Sep 2004, 22:43:42

Yes, many more will opt for the enclosed 300-mpg VW than for a scooter. Though if the scooters catch up in mileage there'll still be a market for 'em. And also as adjunct transportation you can fold up carry on the subway.

Okay, so let's bug VW (ha) into mass producing these ASAP. And invest in VW stock while we're at it, eagerly anticipating the rewards to be earned when these machines hit the streets and sales take off like a Saturn V rocket.
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Re: oil and food

Unread postby JayHMorrison » Fri 10 Sep 2004, 06:24:21

WebHubbleTelescope wrote:
Read this article, then re-compute your math for the amount of gasoline a day per person using this: link
Whoopee, It can go up a 12 degree incline! I suppose at 13 degrees, it just gives up and you are forced to walk it up the hill.

6 degree incline is typically the worst you see in America. So if you are facing a 13 degree incline, then I suspect you will be walking. Nobody said life after Peak Oil was going to be peachy. You better get ready Web. Start skipping the elevator and using the stairs to get in shape.

Your general attitude just seems that you WANT to reject every concept of personal transportation or ANY energy use at all. I really think you are going to have a difficult time adjusting to the coming changes.
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Re: oil and food

Unread postby WebHubbleTelescope » Fri 10 Sep 2004, 21:26:30

JayHMorrison wrote: 6 degree incline is typically the worst you see in America. So if you are facing a 13 degree incline, then I suspect you will be walking. Nobody said life after Peak Oil was going to be peachy. You better get ready Web. Start skipping the elevator and using the stairs to get in shape. Your general attitude just seems that you WANT to reject every concept of personal transportation or ANY energy use at all. I really think you are going to have a difficult time adjusting to the coming changes.

These words are starting to sound like Dick Cheney. "You better get ready Web" I am not going to let these kind of fear tactics determine the decisions I make. I have walked or pedalled to work or school for 37 of the 38 years that I have had a chance to.
And you know what I do during the time I pedal? I Think! about how to make commuting easier, more convenient, faster, safer, more enjoyable, and, yes, even cheaper.

Trying to defend 12 degree slope as some great technical achievement is silly. A pro cycling road race in Stillwater goes up Chillkoot Hill which is 24 percent grade or almost 14 degrees. It's 2nd street in downtown Stillwater! I happened to be at the race last year and the road bikers basically tore up that hill for a number of laps. I tried it on my mountain bike and no sweat. A bicycle velodrome has pitches of like 12 degrees on the straights and 42 degrees on the banks. Now I know that you don't go straight up these banks, but the little electric tricycle being bandied about is going to be a loser on a track like this.

And then you have a real mountain bike race like the Chequamegon. A lot of the CAMBA grades approach 100% or 45 degrees. I have raced those hills in lowest gear. The only reason other riders start falling off is because it is single rocky, loose track and anytime you get one person that ditches ahead of you, the whole queue starts losing momentum and basically comes to a standstill. But you always you get one guy that has excellent balance and starts weaving around everyone and gets a big applause when he makes it all the way up.
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Unread postby gg3 » Sat 11 Sep 2004, 01:24:16

Once again, with emphasis: There are no magic bullets, there are no one-shot solutions, one size does not fit all, and nothing less than everything is truly sufficient!

If scooters won't climb mountains, use the scooters where there aren't mountains. For every specific need, use what works there, and don't worry if it doesn't work somewhere else. Fix the easy cases first, then go back to fix the hard ones. After a while most of the blanks get filled in and hopefully our species will be living within it means.
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Re: oil and food

Unread postby JayHMorrison » Sat 11 Sep 2004, 07:22:22

WebHubbleTelescope wrote:I have walked or pedalled to work or school for 37 of the 38 years that I have had a chance to.
And you know what I do during the time I pedal? I Think! about how to make commuting easier, more convenient, faster, safer, more enjoyable, and, yes, even cheaper. Trying to defend 12 degree slope as some great technical achievement is silly. A pro cycling road race in Stillwater goes up Chillkoot Hill which is 24 percent grade or almost 14 degrees.<< snipped rest of quote. Scroll up if you want to read it >>

Web, if you want to ride your bike so badly, that is fine. Nobody is stopping you. It's a free planet (or most of it is anyway). You dont have to be so defensive about that option. I am sure that those people who need (or want) to tackle a 13 degree hill on the way to work will find a way to do it.

But for those of us who don't like to be so sweaty when arriving at work, an EV scooter or Plug-in Hybrid type of vehicle makes sense and is feasible. Your attacks on the concept of people using an EV scooter just don't seem to make much sense. It really seems like a very efficient and useful model of individual transportation.
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Unread postby WebHubbleTelescope » Sat 11 Sep 2004, 11:05:28

Well, we all know people that look at car performance specifications and rant or rave about every last detail; for example 0-60 in X seconds, etc. You got here some objective evaluations of scooters versus bicycles.
Your attacks on the concept of people using an EV scooter just don't seem to make much sense.

Attacking the specs of a scooter is attacking the people that use a scooter? That's a stretch.

I don't mind seeing somebody riding a scooter. It's kind of like a pace vehicle, it usually gets me motivated to pass it up, get real sweaty, and get to work.
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better yet

Unread postby WebHubbleTelescope » Sat 11 Sep 2004, 13:48:47

1/2 cup of oil per day! jpg BackSafer Silver Recumbent

1/2 cup of oil per day! jpg Cool Rider Folding Recumbent

1/2 cup of oil per day! jpg Van Dessel County Road Bob Single Speed Fixed Gear Road Bike
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Unread postby Falconoffury » Sat 11 Sep 2004, 18:32:27

It's too bad that these things will not solve the problems of the system of economy, human nature, and society. Maybe one day the survivors will use some electric scooters.
"If humans don't control their numbers, nature will." -Pimentel
"There is not enough trash to go around for everyone," said Banrel, one of the participants in the cattle massacre.
"Bush, Bush, listen well: Two shoes on your head," the protesters chant
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Unread postby AdvocatusDiaboli » Sun 12 Sep 2004, 02:26:05

Jay, the rate of fatal accidents for scooters which do 30 mph is very low. You hardly ever hit an object faster than 20 mph (after breaking) and with a helmet the human body can take such a hit.
IIRC we have like 60 or so fatalities per year in Germany, the number of motorbike fatalities is multiples higher.
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Unread postby JayHMorrison » Sun 12 Sep 2004, 08:16:31

AdvocatusDiaboli wrote:Jay, the rate of fatal accidents for scooters which do 30 mph is very low.

I am sure we can get the fatalities up higher if that is what is needed.
AdvocatusDiaboli wrote:You hardly ever hit an object faster than 20 mph (after breaking) and with a helmet the human body can take such a hit.

Maybe we could remove the helmet requirement. [smilie=5moped.gif] [smilie=qright5.gif]
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helmets

Unread postby WebHubbleTelescope » Sun 12 Sep 2004, 11:12:52

Nobody has proven that bicycle helmets actually helps the average biker stay safe. Therefore, no helmet requirements for bicyclists! On the other hand:
Motorbikes are crap says Dung Vietnamese unhappy with motorcycle death toll
Vietnam to suspend bike registrations in big cities HANOI, Vietnamese Deputy Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung has urged a halt in granting motorbike registration licences in Hanoi and Ho Chi Minh city. The move is intended to curb the country's mounting traffic death toll. Dung also suggested strict measures to cut the rapid increase in the number of motorbikes, which make up 95 percent of vehicles on the road, by reducing license quotas and raising taxes on the import of motorcycles and parts, the English-language Vietnam News daily said.
Top priority is to be given to the production and development of public buses in big cities. More than 9,500 people have died on Vietnam's roads since January 2002. Nearly 10 million motorbikes circulate in Vietnam, but only 3.9 million motorcyclists have mandatory driver's licenses, the daily reported.
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Diesel Combat Motorcycle

Unread postby UncoveringTruths » Mon 14 Feb 2005, 22:41:53

M1030M1 Diesel Combat Motorcycle
This is no wimpy bike with a converted diesel generator for an engine. This is a high performance enduro bike that will run over 100 mph, revs over 7000 rpm and will climb the proverbial "brick wall"


Diesel Combat Motorcycle

I'll take five please! :lol: 100mpg on multiple fuel sources (biodiesel). 8O
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Unread postby Kingcoal » Mon 14 Feb 2005, 23:01:40

Cool! I have to have one.
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Unread postby parainwater » Tue 15 Feb 2005, 02:16:11

I have a combat mini-bike with a monster 40cc engine and twin
Daisy BB-guns.
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Unread postby Frank » Tue 15 Feb 2005, 07:33:24

I mentioned in another thread someplace that Sport Rider just profiled a street bike using a modified VW 3-cyl diesel engine that's capable of 150 mpg and 120 bhp! I'd buy one in a minute if it was even remotely affordable. Some guy in the Netherlands was developing it.
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Biofuel Motorcycle?

Unread postby Ayoob_Reloaded » Tue 22 Feb 2005, 22:41:11

The military Kawasaki is supposed to be pretty good, but it's not been released to the public for some reason. There was a guy who built a veggie Harley, and I guess there's one more entry in the race.

Entry #3

No technical data available for performance, and utility looks limited. You never know though, any port in a storm.
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Unread postby Free » Sat 26 Feb 2005, 15:16:55

What's with this Diesel-bike, the Enfield Bullet?

http://www.enfield-deutschland.de/

(german website, but I am sure google will bring up the english producer of these bikes)

As I understand it, you can substitute Diesel with Biodiesel, no?

I am very interested in a biofuel motorcycle too...

Also check out this new Centaurus bike, supposed to reach 125 km/h and one tank lasts for 600 km!

http://www.centaurus.de/
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