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THE Monsanto Thread (merged)

Re: Monsanto bills set to destroy organic farming

Unread postby outcast » Wed 18 Mar 2009, 11:59:43

1. Oh yes, I can't wait to spoon feed you everything you can find on your own, but are too lazy to do so! I'm not going to regurgitate all the research and material I've read just for you. Your refusal to do anything is completely lazy. Your way of thinking keeps people ignorant and is irresponsible.
2. Business contract? The state of Texas requires the farmers to plant the Monsanto seed. This is a business contract how, exactly? This is state regulation that requires the use of a single corporation's product.

1. Providing claims without, when asked, providing proof is a fallacy.
2. Well according to some others on this site that reg doesn't exist.
One day you get a call from a Monsanto lawyer claiming that YOU are using their patented "round up ready" seed and they can prove it...he advises you to seek legal advice immediately.

Like I said, I don't agree with their business practices. Although this is one of the reasons for the terminator gene in GM crops IIRC.
Now just forget about "America" for a minute and imagine this happening on a global scale, imagine just how successful this strategy might be in a country like India?

I'm sure they would like not having to poison themselves with dangerous pesticides to keep pests from destroying their crops. But really, this is business. They want a large percentage of the food market because..surprise, that's what their main business is. Welcome to capitalism.
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Re: Monsanto bills set to destroy organic farming

Unread postby Jotapay » Wed 18 Mar 2009, 14:53:07

outcast wrote:1. Providing claims without, when asked, providing proof is a fallacy.

You seriously want me to prove the following statement? Seriously?
outcast wrote:So this quickly evolved from a "the evil coporations are out to destroy us" conspiracy theory into a "the occultists are out to get us" conspiracy theory.

Are you nuts? Where would you like me to start, pray tell?
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Re: Monsanto bills set to destroy organic farming

Unread postby Ludi » Wed 18 Mar 2009, 16:16:54

outcast wrote:I'm sure they would like not having to poison themselves with dangerous pesticides to keep pests from destroying their crops. .

Of course there are ways of doing that which don't require either pesticides or GM crops.
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Re: Monsanto bills set to destroy organic farming

Unread postby Micki » Wed 18 Mar 2009, 19:46:32

Article in Worldnetdaily;
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php? ... geId=92002

House Resolution 875, or the Food Safety Modernization Act of 2009, was introduced by Rosa DeLauro, D-Conn., in February. DeLauro's husband, Stanley Greenburg, conducts research for Monsanto – the world's leading producer of herbicides and genetically engineered seed.

DeLauro's act has 39 co-sponsors and was referred to the House Agriculture Committee on Feb. 4. It calls for the creation of a Food Safety Administration to allow the government to regulate food production at all levels – and even mandates property seizure, fines of up to $1 million per offense and criminal prosecution for producers, manufacturers and distributors who fail to comply with regulations.


And Thai farmers are still trying to fight the implementation of the Beast system where the following plants are used instead of chemical pestizides; neem, citronella grass, tumeric, ginger, Chinese ginger, African marigold, Siam weed or bitter bush, tea seed cake, chilli, Chinese celery, ringworn bush, glory lily and stemona
http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Govt-Call ... 42231.html

When is backyard farming of sport fishing going to be outlawed?
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Re: Monsanto bills set to destroy organic farming

Unread postby Micki » Wed 18 Mar 2009, 19:56:39

Article in worldnetdaily

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=92002
House Resolution 875, or the Food Safety Modernization Act of 2009, was introduced by Rosa DeLauro, D-Conn., in February. DeLauro's husband, Stanley Greenburg, conducts research for Monsanto – the world's leading producer of herbicides and genetically engineered seed.

DeLauro's act has 39 co-sponsors and was referred to the House Agriculture Committee on Feb. 4. It calls for the creation of a Food Safety Administration to allow the government to regulate food production at all levels – and even mandates property seizure, fines of up to $1 million per offense and criminal prosecution for producers, manufacturers and distributors who fail to comply with regulations


Meanwhile thai farmers are trying to fight the implementation of the Beast system that prohibits them from using traditional plants and herbs as alternative to chemical pesticides.
Prohibited plants include;
neem, citronella grass, tumeric, ginger, Chinese ginger, African marigold, Siam weed or bitter bush, tea seed cake, chilli, Chinese celery, ringworn bush, glory lily and stemona.
http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Govt-Called-Cancel-Rules-Listing-H-t242231.html


Fact file on GM crops;
- the US alone plants over 50% of the world's GM crops
- the area of GM crops being grown has actually fallen in Europe every year since 2005
- none of the GM crops on the market are modified for increased yield potential *some studies show GM crops reduce yield *disease-tolerant GM crops are practically non-existent

There is still hope that the implementation of the beast system can be fought as long as farmers can't get tricked into thinking they will be more profitable with GM crops

EDITED: Link to Fact File: http://www.grassrootsnetroots.org/artic ... _17283.cfm
Last edited by Micki on Thu 19 Mar 2009, 00:41:30, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Monsanto bills set to destroy organic farming

Unread postby outcast » Wed 18 Mar 2009, 21:34:08

Of course there are ways of doing that which don't require either pesticides or GM crops.

But nothing that generates enough consistent yields, otherwise they would do it.
- none of the GM crops on the market are modified for increased yield potential *some studies show GM crops reduce yield *disease-tolerant GM crops are practically non-existent
Don't be so sure
The Chinese have already developed genetically engineered rice strains with bred-in pest and disease resistance. They’re also experimenting with new nitrogen-efficient rice that needs only half as much fertiliser to get top yields. The new rice thus costs much less to grow, and emits far less greenhouse gas per ton of rice produced. They also say biotech rice “escapes” will not be a problem, since they’ve pre-programmed the rice to be hyper-sensitive to a particular herbicide.
China already permits the growing of genetically engineered peppers, tomatoes, and papaya, and much of its huge cotton crop is genetically modified to resist pests. Biotech has overcome the deadly ringspot virus, which severely hampers papaya production in much of the world, and provided virus resistance for tomatoes and peppers. Another genetic modification permits Chinese tomatoes to survive the longer shipping delays caused by the poor Chinese roads and lack of refrigeration.

Disease resistant crops non existent? I'm calling BS on that in general.
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Re: Monsanto bills set to destroy organic farming

Unread postby Micki » Thu 19 Mar 2009, 00:40:20

Sorry, I just noticed the link for Fact file on GM crops was left out.
This is not my opinion as I am no expert on GM. It comes from here; http://www.grassrootsnetroots.org/artic ... _17283.cfm
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Re: Monsanto bills set to destroy organic farming

Unread postby outcast » Thu 19 Mar 2009, 03:23:19

I'm not either, which is why I think we need to be careful with our sources.
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Re: Monsanto bills set to destroy organic farming

Unread postby Micki » Thu 19 Mar 2009, 11:04:21

pablonite wrote:outcast, consider the following hypothetical scenario.. Say you are a small 5th generation farmer but haven't got around to buying your seeds from Monsanto or any of the other GM seed producers yet because you seem to be doing just fine without them, however your neighbour did. One day you get a call from a Monsanto lawyer claiming that YOU are using their patented "round up ready" seed and they can prove it...he advises you to seek legal advice immediately. --snip-- It's not so much drinking the kool-aid, it's getting off the kool-aid we've all been drinking for too long!

I never quite understood the legality of this. What is the actual crime? i.e. if I am caught watching a pirate copied movie I doubt I'll get sentenced. I might get unlucky if I am caught copying or selling, not using. Can't the the farmer even argue that they have just purchased the seeds from somewhere else? i.e. in that case fees to monsanto might have been paid, it just have been paid by the original purchaser?
I can think of a dozen variations or reasons why a farmer shouldn't be guilty just because it has been discovered that he had some monsanto seeds that license hadn't been paid for.

The other thing I am missing is a proper list of brands&products that are based on Monsanto seeds or other products from Monsanto. My preference would be for marketing of products as being non-monsanto as that would allow easy identification in the shop, but as this isn't likely, a comprehensive list of what to avoid that I try to memorize would do for a start.
Anyone come across a good site for this kind of info?
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Re: Monsanto bills set to destroy organic farming

Unread postby rangerone314 » Thu 19 Mar 2009, 11:19:12

Micki wrote:Article in worldnetdaily link
House Resolution 875, or the Food Safety Modernization Act of 2009, was introduced by Rosa DeLauro, D-Conn., in February. DeLauro's husband, Stanley Greenburg, conducts research for Monsanto – the world's leading producer of herbicides and genetically engineered seed.
DeLauro's act has 39 co-sponsors and was referred to the House Agriculture Committee on Feb. 4. It calls for the creation of a Food Safety Administration to allow the government to regulate food production at all levels – and even mandates property seizure, fines of up to $1 million per offense and criminal prosecution for producers, manufacturers and distributors who fail to comply with regulations

Meanwhile thai farmers are trying to fight the implementation of the Beast system that prohibits them from using traditional plants and herbs as alternative to chemical pesticides.
Prohibited plants include: neem, citronella grass, tumeric, ginger, Chinese ginger, African marigold, Siam weed or bitter bush, tea seed cake, chilli, Chinese celery, ringworn bush, glory lily and stemona.
link

Fact file on GM crops;
- the US alone plants over 50% of the world's GM crops
- the area of GM crops being grown has actually fallen in Europe every year since 2005
- none of the GM crops on the market are modified for increased yield potential *some studies show GM crops reduce yield *disease-tolerant GM crops are practically non-existent

There is still hope that the implementation of the beast system can be fought as long as farmers can't get tricked into thinking they will be more profitable with GM crops EDITED: Link to Fact File: http://www.grassrootsnetroots.org/artic ... _17283.cfm


With corporate rule by KBR, Exxon & Monsanto, I am sort of feeling that we are more like the Ferengi Alliance in Star Trek, and Europe is more like the Federation. I'd love to know why Anti-Trust enforcement is dead in this country..
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Re: Monsanto bills set to destroy organic farming

Unread postby Jotapay » Thu 19 Mar 2009, 11:51:39

Here is what I have about Monsanto and Texas cotton farmers. It is slightly different than I heard and repeated, but not much. There is no Texas law.

This cotton farmer has to buy a specific Monsanto seed as it gives slightly higher yield. If they did not use this seed, they would be at risk of going out of business as they would not be competitive. If you use this type of Monsanto seed, the EPA requires that you plant "refuges" (basically, borders of GMO seed) and submit to inspections to ensure that this is being done.

Here is the letter sent to farmers stating this: link

You can see what defines "refuge" planting here: link

edited for slight grammar, caps usage.
Last edited by Jotapay on Thu 19 Mar 2009, 13:08:27, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Monsanto bills set to destroy organic farming

Unread postby pstarr » Thu 19 Mar 2009, 12:31:52

I believe I know what this is about. It is about food inspections and chain of custody.. I know the following is kind of technical and boring and folks would rather rant bout conspiracies but hey. I'll give it a shot. Maybe someone will pick up on

The need for the practice began in the organic food industry as a way of recording, certifying, and tracking food stuffs--produce and meat and especially ingredients destined for inclusion in organic labeled processed products--to ensure truth in labeling.

Chain of custody adds a burden to the producer in that they must label foods in the field so that, for instance, a box of carrots that ends up in a bag of Cascadian Farms Frozen Organic Mixed Vegetables labeled organic can be tracked to an organic farmer and proven organic.

So chain of custody laws were implemented to protect the organic label, so that sleazy farmers could not sell chemical produce for an organic premium. It added a cost all along the distribution, processing, manufacturing path that is finally absorbed by the consumer with higher prices for organic.

I suspect that the spinach and e-coli outbreaks have finally forced the US to implement similar tracking systems for conventional. Not a bad idea. Thanks to the visionaries within the organic industry, the tools (infield scanning etc. tracking software/hardware systems) are now affordable to all but the smallest organic producers. And guess what? They get exemptions.

I worked in the natural and organic food industry for years. Organic visionaries have revolutionized food production is the US by introducing a level of information management on an industrial scale that complements and enhances age old traditional practices, protects soil and food, but also allows farmers to feed billions.

However the natural food industry (not the organic component) is full of nannies, hysterics, scammers, and the ignorant who know nothing about food production, chemistry, food safety, etc. They are as paranoid as anything on the right. Kind of mirror images.

I doubt there is anything in these bills that would allow Monsanto into your bedrooms. Or force farmers to use gmo seeds. Nevertheless Monsanto (and Cargill, General Foods, et.al.) evil bastards that they are, will try to game any law and advantage they have to further promulgate the 'green revolution'---a proxy for modern feudal servitude.
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Re: Monsanto bills set to destroy organic farming

Unread postby Jotapay » Thu 19 Mar 2009, 13:10:39

Shannymara wrote:Thanks for the update, Jotapay. I think these issues about GM seed and agricultural policy in general are terribly important, so it's important to have accurate information about them.


No sweat. Accuracy is important. When I heard "cotton farmer has to use Monsanto seed" I assumed something which didn't turn out to be true. It's not a law, but a market effect.
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Re: Monsanto bills set to destroy organic farming

Unread postby outcast » Thu 19 Mar 2009, 23:14:09

This cotton farmer has to buy a specific Monsanto seed as it gives slightly higher yield. If they did not use this seed, they would be at risk of going out of business as they would not be competitive.



So it's just capitalism. Case closed, no conspiracy.
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Re: Monsanto bills set to destroy organic farming

Unread postby Jotapay » Fri 20 Mar 2009, 06:50:29

outcast wrote:
This cotton farmer has to buy a specific Monsanto seed as it gives slightly higher yield. If they did not use this seed, they would be at risk of going out of business as they would not be competitive.
So it's just capitalism. Case closed, no conspiracy.

Partially right. Capitalism with EPA favoritism of specific corporations, as well as regulation allowing said corporation to supervise private businesses and potentially put them out of business. I never said "conspiracy".
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Re: Monsanto bills set to destroy organic farming

Unread postby rangerone314 » Fri 20 Mar 2009, 08:16:53

Jotapay wrote:
outcast wrote:
This cotton farmer has to buy a specific Monsanto seed as it gives slightly higher yield. If they did not use this seed, they would be at risk of going out of business as they would not be competitive.
So it's just capitalism. Case closed, no conspiracy.
Partially right. Capitalism with EPA favoritism of specific corporations, as well as regulation allowing said corporation to supervise private businesses and potentially put them out of business. I never said "conspiracy".

Big business sure does act a lot like big government... their legal departments write laws, and then get their bought-and-paid for Congressmen to rubber stamp the legislation, most likely without even reading it. Don't need a conspiracy if the corps acting in their own interests do just as much damage... If I get killed by a bomb it doesn't matter if I was intentionally targeted or was collateral damage... I'm still dead.
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Re: Monsanto bills set to destroy organic farming

Unread postby pablonite » Fri 20 Mar 2009, 10:56:58

pstarr wrote:Nevertheless Monsanto (and Cargill, General Foods, et.al.) evil bastards that they are, will try to game any law and advantage they have to further promulgate the 'green revolution'---a proxy for modern feudal servitude
.
There are people who work for these corporations, good people who are doing good things, holding down a good job and being a good provider. They would take exception to what you said :) Capitalism, Socialism, Communism, Marxism...whatever 'ISM' you live in has one goal, the concentration of wealth of power. An alien intelligence visiting planet earth and observing our civilizationISM would immediately observe the similiarities of nations , not the differences.

Food, water and shelter. The ISM has almost complete control of these now, which is why the small farmer has ALWAYS been a thorn in the side of the ISM's. The constitutional republic is now a democracy and black is the new green, and of course slavery is freedom :shock: I would guess %99.9 of the American population is incapable of surviving without the state, and that my friends is COMPLETE control. Good luck!
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Re: Monsanto bills set to destroy organic farming

Unread postby pstarr » Fri 20 Mar 2009, 11:02:11

pablonite wrote:There are people who work for these corporations, good people who are doing good things, holding down a good job and being a good provider. They would take exception to what you said :) Capitalism, Socialism, Communism, Marxism...whatever 'ISM' you live in has one goal, the concentration of wealth of power. An alien intelligence visiting planet earth and observing our civilizationISM would immediately observe the similiarities of nations , not the differences.

Food, water and shelter. The ISM has almost complete control of these now, which is why the small farmer has ALWAYS been a thorn in the side of the ISM's. The constitutional republic is now a democracy and black is the new green, and of course slavery is freedom :shock: I would guess %99.9 of the American population is incapable of surviving without the state, and that my friends is COMPLETE control. Good luck!

Did you read more then the last line of my explanation?
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Corn Wars

Unread postby Pops » Thu 20 Aug 2015, 10:23:47

Here is a pretty good article about ag. history, corporatocracy, world domination, etc.

Think about that: The U.S. Department of Justice and the FBI now contend, in effect, that the theft of genetically modified corn technology is as credible a threat to national security as the spread to nation-states of the technology necessary to deliver and detonate nuclear warheads. Disturbingly, they may be right. As the global population continues to climb and climate change makes arable soil and water for irrigation ever more scarce, the world’s next superpower will be determined not just by which country has the most military might but also, and more importantly, by its mastery of the technology required to produce large quantities of food.

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/1224 ... picks=true
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Re: Corn Wars

Unread postby kanon » Thu 20 Aug 2015, 11:13:43

Don't you think this is a propaganda piece? i.e. Monsanto's GMO corn is so wonderful that Chinese secret agents steal seeds as part of a diabolical plot to feed the billions without paying their just tribute. But forget the royalties, it is the magical seeds that are promoted here, and the myth of industrial agriculture. We must have "mastery of the technology required to produce large quantities of food."

Meanwhile, on my bus ride up IH-35 in central Texas, I personally saw hundreds, perhaps thousands, of acres of GMO corn that died in the field. Acres that I doubt will be counted in the bu/acre statistics. Perhaps the Chinese agents should also be stealing the secret technology of crop insurance subsidies.
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