[Roy]

I heard on NPR yesterday that the Krgyz have decided to give the US 6 months to get out of that airbase.

Still the supply situation there puts our personnel and equipment at great risk IMO.

[Fishman]

Looks like long term history will have Bush winning in Iraq and Obama losing in Afganistan.

[alokin]

Maybe safer to get along with the direct neighbour than having support from a country far away which falls apart.

[Ferretlover]

It should be interesting to see if any other countries follow Kyrgyzstan's lead.

[Cid_Yama]

The Kyrgyz parliament on Thursday approved the government 's decision on initiating the withdrawal of U.S. Air Force servicemen from the Manas airport. A majority of Kyrgyz lawmakers supported the relevant government resolution.

Under national legislation, the parliament's decision becomes effective after the signing of the law by President Kurmanbek Bakiyev.

The Foreign Ministry then will notify the United States, in accordance with the established procedure, and the U.S. servicemen will have to leave the territory of the republic within 180 days.

link

Kyrgyz President Kurmanbek Bakiyev on Friday signed the law denouncing the agreement with the United States on the airbase in Manas, the presidential press service told Itar-Tass. The parliament passed the law the day before.

The law comes into effect beginning the day it is signed, the press service noted.

The Kyrgyz Foreign Ministry will send the notification to Washington soon, and the U.S. military units must leave the republic within 180 days.

link

There goes Afghanistan war air support.and resupply.

On Tuesday, Russian news sources quoted Kyrgyzstan President Kurmanbek Bakiyev as saying that he had decided to cancel U.S. access to the Manas Air Base, one of two regional air hubs for resupplying U.S. troops in Afghanistan used since the war began in 2001. The United States had lost the other, a base in Uzbekistan called Karshi Khanabad, in 2005 after the Bush administration criticized the Uzbek regime for human rights abuses. As a result, the U.S.’s reliance on Manas has increased to the point where it has become the “primary logistics hub” for the Afghanistan war, providing a staging ground for both troops and materiel, as Air Force Col. Randy Kee, the commander of the 376th Air Expeditionary Wing, told journalist Nathan Hodge in 2005.

Manas is home to a “24-hour operation” supporting the Afghanistan war, said Vikram Singh, a South Asia expert at the Center for a New American Security who served in the Pentagon during the Bush administration, hosting fuel tankers, cargo and attack aircraft and medical evacuation resources, among other materiel. “This is not a small operation,” he said, adding that the loss of Manas could lead to a reduction in the tempo of military operations. “There’s no way to quantify it, but if you’re a commander on the ground, you’ve got to think that there are several things that aren’t available to you.”

The issue of logistics resupply has proven to be a difficult one for U.S. troops in Afghanistan, a country characterized by mountainous terrain and few paved roads. Land-based supply routes for U.S. and NATO troops that run through Pakistan have come under increasing attack in recent months. On Tuesday, Taliban guerillas destroyed an important bridge through the Kyber Pass between Afghanistan and Pakistan used to resupply NATO forces.

Additionally, Singh noted that it wouldn’t be as simple as picking up from Manas and moving elsewhere. “There are lots of places that technically could” host U.S. forces, he said, but “there’s been substantial investment into upgrading [Manas] so it can support” the U.S. mission in Afghanistan.

link

[Fishman]

Thanks Cid
History will record long after we are gone that Bush won the war in Iraq and Obama lost it in Afganistan.

[mos6507]

Thanks Cid
History will record long after we are gone that Bush won the war in Iraq and Obama lost it in Afganistan.

Like I said in another thread, in our Lovlock/Olduvai future, Bush as the destroyer of modern civilization and agent for ecocide will be smeared onto cave walls.

[ReverseEngineer]

On Tuesday, Russian news sources quoted Kyrgyzstan President Kurmanbek Bakiyev as saying that he had decided to cancel U.S. access to the Manas Air Base, one of two regional air hubs for resupplying U.S. troops in Afghanistan used since the war began in 2001. The United States had lost the other, a base in Uzbekistan called Karshi Khanabad, in 2005 after the Bush administration criticized the Uzbek regime for human rights abuses. As a result, the U.S.’s reliance on Manas has increased to the point where it has become the “primary logistics hub” for the Afghanistan war, providing a staging ground for both troops and materiel, as Air Force Col. Randy Kee, the commander of the 376th Air Expeditionary Wing, told journalist Nathan Hodge in 2005.

Manas is home to a “24-hour operation” supporting the Afghanistan war, said Vikram Singh, a South Asia expert at the Center for a New American Security who served in the Pentagon during the Bush administration, hosting fuel tankers, cargo and attack aircraft and medical evacuation resources, among other materiel. “This is not a small operation,” he said, adding that the loss of Manas could lead to a reduction in the tempo of military operations. “There’s no way to quantify it, but if you’re a commander on the ground, you’ve got to think that there are several things that aren’t available to you.”

The issue of logistics resupply has proven to be a difficult one for U.S. troops in Afghanistan, a country characterized by mountainous terrain and few paved roads. Land-based supply routes for U.S. and NATO troops that run through Pakistan have come under increasing attack in recent months. On Tuesday, Taliban guerillas destroyed an important bridge through the Kyber Pass between Afghanistan and Pakistan used to resupply NATO forces.

This news brings up an old wager I have going with Cur regarding the logistical supply of troops in the Pakistan/Afghanistan war and getting our boys and girls out of there before the Paki Indian conflict goes ballistic. It would seem to me to be a wise idea to evacuate ASAP at this point. We are running out of spots to even do air drops, much less run a supply column over land from the Indian Ocean.

Reverse Engineer

[alokin]

That may not improve the Russian-US relationship.
Remember the first day in office when Putin pecked after Obama?
What will the US do? Forget about the drug money project?
Searching elsewhere? Putting up pressure?

[35Kas]

If a solution is not found within 90 days the lack of airstops into Afghanistan will force the hand of US CENTCOM.

I don't see what they can do in 180 days to substitute Manas. Ask China for an air bridge? Establish supply lines from the Indian ocean north through Pakistan one way or the other?

The situation there was already perilous and now the forces entrenched there are a hair trigger away from being completely isolated. What if something happens in Paki that stops the supply corridor? There will be a last dash effort for the Indian ocean as forces struggle through Baluchistan to be met halfway by a marine expeditionary force from the Arabian sea?

[ReverseEngineer]

If a solution is not found within 90 days the lack of airstops into Afghanistan will force the hand of US CENTCOM.

I don't see what they can do in 180 days to substitute Manas.

Annex Tibet, build an Airbase on Everest. The Chinese will never notice.

Reverse Engineer

[Cid_Yama]

It would seem to me to be a wise idea to evacuate ASAP at this point.

The whole point of being there was to provide a route for a gas pipeline to Europe bypassing Russia, with the gas coming from Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan. Since they are members of the SCO and already have contracts with Russia to ship the gas, the whole thing was a Western pipedream to begin with.

Time to get out and fast.

There was a movie about a Russian tank crew, seperated, and being pursued by the Taliban in Afghanistan, I think it was called "The Beast".
I would not wish that on anyone.

Great movie if you can find it.

Here it is.
link

[gollum]

I have The Beast, saw it when I was in the army in the early 90s, very good movie. Although just a movie I think it gives good insight into what is going on in Afghanistan and Iraq even today (not that I believe our troops use tanks to run over prisoners).

[alokin]

I thought that after the pipeline project was dead back in 2002 (?) they still stayed. And that was because Afghanistan (under the control of the US) produces some 90% of opium worldwide.
For them it makes sense: stay, send more troops there and get all the drug money and you will have a good deal of all bailouts financed.
I think this is the main reason. Maybe Russia didn't like it. Maybe they don't like their kids being on drugs.

[Last_Historian]

http://www.isn.ethz.ch/isn/Current-Affa ... n&id=96478

13 Feb 2009
The Manas disillusionment
Military aircraft

Kyrgyzstan threatens to evict the US from the Manas airbase as Moscow trumps Washington with attractive aid packages, while Bishkek grows increasingly disillusioned with what it views as US usury, John CK Daly writes for ISN Security Watch.

By John C K Daly for ISN Security Watch

Meeting with his Russian counterpart on 4 February in Moscow, Kyrgyz President Kurmanbek Bakiyev announced that he had decided to close the US airbase at Manas - a move that will complicate President Barack Obama's stated intention to surge an additional 30,000 troops into Afghanistan and logistics for Operation Enduring Freedom.

When the Kyrgyz parliament votes on the president's proposal, perhaps later this month, the measure is likely to pass, as Bakiyev's Ak Jol party controls 71 of the legislature's 90 seats. Under the terms of the Status of Forces Agreement (SOFA), the US will then have 180 days to vacate the base, located some 27 kilometers from the capital, Bishkek.

Manas was established on 4 December 2001 under the joint Kyrgyz-US SOFA agreement, which granted the Pentagon the right to use the airbase for a bargain rent of US$2 million annually. The Defense Department selected Manas because its 14,000-foot runway, originally built for Soviet bombers, could service US C-5 Galaxy cargo planes and 747s in their flight to Afghanistan. Of Kyrgyzstan's 52 airports, Manas was the only one with a lengthy runway capable of supporting international flights. An adjacent 32-acre field was initially utilized for a tent city for US personnel, which beginning in mid-2004 was replaced by more permanent structures at a cost of US$60 million.

Manas is home to the 376th Air Expeditionary Wing and serves as the premier air mobility hub for NATO's International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) and coalition military operations in Afghanistan. According to the US Defense Department, Manas handles about 15,000 passengers and 500 tonnes of cargo monthly. Last year, coalition KC-135s stationed there flew 3,294 missions disbursing 97,226 tonnes of aviation fuel to 11,419 coalition aircraft over Afghanistan and supported more than 170,000 coalition personnel transiting in and out of Afghanistan.

Pentagon blindsided

Judging by Washington's reaction, Bakiyev's decision blindsided the Pentagon - though in reality it is the culmination of years of American obtuseness, arrogance and penny-pinching, the warning signs of which have long been visible.

There is an atmosphere of faint hope in Washington that the announcement is in fact a negotiating attempt by Bishkek to up the rent for the base, but the State Department and Pentagon have been scrambling to find alternatives, holding discussions with Tajikistan, Uzbekistan and Turkmenistan while dispatching negotiators as far afield as the United Arab Emirates, Kuwait, Qatar, Bahrain and Turkey in case Bakiyev follows through.

The Pentagon was so certain that it was secure in Manas that last October the Army Corps of Engineers issued a pre-solicitation notice for potential contractors for up to US$100 million in improvements to the base. There were rumors that the Pentagon was also seeking an additional 300 hectares for expanding the base.

Moscow trumps Washington

While both Bakiyev and Russian President Dmitry Medvedev strenuously deny it, generous Russian loans totaling US$2 billion and a non-repayable US$150 million grant, announced the day before Bakiyev made his pronouncement, undoubtedly played no small part in the decision.

To put the proffered assistance in context, Moscow's financial aid is worth double Kyrgyzstan's current annual GDP, and the Russian assistance stands in stark contrast to Washington's fiscal policy over the years towards Kyrgyzstan, which has never offered the country any loans.

But Kyrgyzstan is no stranger to haggling, and for now parliament has decided to delay the vote on closing Manas until it receives the first tranche of Russia's promised US$450 million.

Besides the US$150 million outright grant, the Russian aid includes US$300 million in preferential credit for 40 years at a symbolic interest rate of 0.75 percent, with a grace period of seven years before the first payment is due.

An intergovernmental agreement signed during Bakiyev's Moscow visit sets up a joint venture between Kyrgyzstan's Elektricheskie Stantsii and Russia's Inter RAO EES, and the bulk of the loan (up to US$1.7 billion) will go towards the construction of the 1,900-megawatt Kambar-Ata Hydroelectric Power Station-1 on the Naryn River.

Kambar-Ata epitomizes why Russia is currently in the ascendancy in Kyrgyzstan and the US is being shown the door. It is an indigenous energy project that has direct bearing on the quality of life for the average Kyrgyz. In contrast, the US for the last eight years has displayed indifference to Kyrgyzstan's energy sector, as it is devoid of exportable hydrocarbons, viewing the country instead solely in military terms.

While much western commentary implies that the loans were ad hoc arrangements, in fact they represent part of US$2 billion in assistance to Kyrgyzstan first promised by then-president Vladimir Putin in August 2007, which in turn built upon a 15 December 2006 Russian-Kyrgyz agreement to spend US$1 billion to construct the Kambar-Ata-1 and Kambar-Ata-2 hydroelectric cascades. The project is a massive undertaking which on completion could not only supply electricity not only for domestic consumption but also for export to Afghanistan, China and Pakistan.

Against such largesse, Washington's fiscal assistance to Kyrgyzstan looks miserly indeed. However, the Pentagon insists that the US has given Kyrgyzstan more than US$150 million annually in aid. Furthermore, it insists that it has been paying US$63 million in rent for Manas, but other sources, including the Kyrgyz government, say otherwise.

According to Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty, funded by the US Congress, the US paid US$2 million a year to use Manas for the first five years of the base's operation. In 2006, this was increased to US$17.5 million, while the US funded other in-country programs that totaled approximately US$100 million. On 6 February, Kyrgyz Finance Minister Tajikan Kalimbetova corroborated the RFE/RL figures to parliament, according to Informatsionnoe agentsvo 24 press klub in a 6 February report.

"There is not in Kyrgyzstan a single bank representing the interests of the United States, the trade balance is small, there is no major investment project involving US firms. There is sufficient economic potential, but very little use is being made of it, unfortunately," Informatsionnoe agentsvo Regnum quoted Kyrgyz Prime Minister Igor Chudinov as saying on 7 February.

And for the average Kyrgyz, there has been no "trickle down" of the loudly proclaimed American assistance.

Kyrgyz disillusionment

The potential utility of Manas for the Pentagon is not limited to operations in Afghanistan; the fact that it is only 320 kilometers from the border with China's westernmost province of Xinjiang means that tankers based at Manas put US aircraft within range of China's nuclear test site facilities at Lop Nor in Xinjiang. Manas is a sore point with both the Russians and Chinese as it affords the US military the ability to snoop on their military activities.

Unease over the Pentagon's possible uses of the airbase is not limited to Kyrgyzstan's neighbors. Kyrgyz lawmakers have grown increasingly apprehensive with what the Pentagon might do with its untrammeled access to Manas.

On 21 May 2007, lawmaker Almanbet Matubraimov quoted remarks by US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice that in case of a military offensive against Iran, the first air attack would be delivered from Manas, to which Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad promised that Iran would immediately reply by targeting the site from where the attack was launched, Informatsionnoe agentsvo AKIpress reported.

Two years after Manas was established, Russia founded its own airbase at Kant, its first outside of Russian territory since the 1991 collapse of the USSR, under an agreement within the framework of the Collective Security Treaty Organization, a post-Soviet regional security bloc that besides Russia includes Kyrgyzstan, Kazakhstan, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, Armenia and Belarus. Kyrgyzstan is the only country in the world with both American and Russian bases on its territory.

At a popular level, Kyrgyz disillusionment over Manas developed gradually. When the base opened people hoped that there would be employment opportunities, but the only Kyrgyz hired to work were employed largely as janitors. According to Moskovskii Komsomolets, in 2005-2006, the salaries of these workers were not even paid. ISN Security Watch has not been able to independently confirm this report.

Shortly after Manas began operations, the Pentagon signed contracts with Manas International Services Ltd. and Aalam Services Ltd., the only two aviation fuel suppliers in Kyrgyzstan. Both companies were controlled by relatives of then-president Askar Akayev. In addition Aydar Akayev, the president's son, was a part owner of Manas. The Pentagon also agreed to international civil aviation rates for the daily take-offs and landings of military aircraft at Manas to Akayev's cronies as well. None of these Manas-related revenues were reported in Kyrgyz government budgetary statistics.

Following the "Tulip Revolution" which deposed Akayev, the two entities came under the scrutiny of the Kyrgyz government and FBI, but the Pentagon stoutly maintained its innocence regarding the US$207 million it spent on inflated fuel contracts. The new president, Bakiyev, insisted that the US make US$80 million retroactive lease payments and assist in recovering the allegedly purloined contract money. Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman responded that "any possible misappropriation of funds is an internal Kyrgyz matter."

Other simmering complaints included a 26 September 2006 aircraft collision involving a KC-135 and the presidential Tu-154, for which the Americans declined to take responsibility, and the reportedly frequent dumping of tonnes of surplus fuel over Kyrgyz farms adjoining the base.

Things came to a head on 6 December 2006, when 20-year old US soldier Zachary Hatfield shot twice and killed 42-year-old Kyrgyz Aleksandr Ivanov, an ethnic Russian Kyrgyz, at the airbase's entry gate. Ivanov worked for Aerocraft Petrol Management, which provides fuel services for Kyrgyz and international civilian aircraft. Hatfield maintained that he fired in self defense after Ivanov approached him with a knife. Adding to local anger was the fact that at the time of the shooting Ivanov was about 5-6 meters away from Hatfield and Ivanov's knife was found 20 meters away from the site of the incident, while rumors swirled that the guard was drunk at the time of the incident.

The Kyrgyz government insisted that Hatfield be handed over for trial, but the US military spirited Hatfield out of the country on 21 March 2007 even as talks about Hatfield's legal status were ongoing. Adding insult to injury, the US government initially offered Ivanov's widow US$2,000 in compensation, an amount that Galina Skripkina, a lawyer representing Ivanov's widow, described as "humiliating," according to a 12 March 2007 Associated Press report.

Despite the Kyrgyz disillusionment, there are experts who believe that Bishkek's latest threat is ill-advised. Dr S Frederick Starr, chairman of the Central Asia-Caucasus Institute & Silk Road Studies Program Joint Center, told ISN Security Watch that Kyrgyzstan's move to close the Manas air base "is the wrong action done at the wrong time and in the wrong way."

"It will send the clear signal that Kyrgyzstan has abandoned a balanced foreign policy. But it is not too late for the Kyrgyz Republic and US to work together to correct it," he said.

Blinded by the perfidious Russian bear

Given the obvious disenchantment with the deal, only the most blinkered of Washington bureaucrats can have been surprised by Bakiyev's 4 February announcement.

While recidivist Washington cold warriors are quick to see the perfidious Russian bear behind their ouster, in fact the Kremlin has thrown Kyrgyzstan a desperately needed fiscal lifeline even while Russia (along with the former Soviet Central Asian republics) has a desire to see ISAF stabilization efforts succeed in Afghanistan.

Russia's ambassador to NATO, Dmitry Rogozin, succinctly summed up Moscow's current thinking when he said, "In the event of NATO's defeat in Afghanistan, fundamentalists who are inspired by this victory will set their eyes on the north. First they will hit Tajikistan, then they will try to break into Uzbekistan... If things turn out badly, in about 10 years our boys will have to fight well-armed and well-organized Islamists somewhere in Kazakhstan," the International Herald Tribune reported on 24 January.

If the Obama administration is serious about making Afghanistan the focal point of its anti-terrorist operations, it might be forced to reexamine its relationship with Kyrgyzstan. Russia, China and India all have an interest in seeing the pacification efforts in Afghanistan succeed, and Russia has offered to open a supply route for non-military supplies, along with several Central Asian nations.

Washington may yet have an opportunity to remain at Manas, as Melis Erjigitov of the parliament's press service stated on 11 February the Manas base closure bill was not on parliament's agenda for February. But this is not likely to happen if Washington refused to change its mindset and one-up Russia in terms of aid.

Is Washington prepared to let Manas go? That is unclear, but a 10 February statement by Secretary of Defense Robert Gates indicates that Washington may give up and look elsewhere. "Manas is important, but not irreplaceable," Gates said in a quote carried by the Washington Post on 11 February.

If those inside the Beltway are to learn anything from their Kyrgyz experience, it's that Reaganesque "trickle down" economics in fighting a conflict halfway around the world is unlikely to buy local hearts and minds, much less allies.

Dr John C K Daly is a Washington DC-based consultant and an adjunct scholar at the Middle East Institute.

[Cid_Yama]

Usually best to only quote key passages and give a link. Most people's eyes will glaze over if you don't make your point in small doses.

As to opium in Afghanistan, it is leading to heroin addiction in the US as servicemen bring their addictions back with them. This was also a problem in the Vietnam war, but this time the media isn't covering it like back then.

[misterno]

Usually best to only quote key passages and give a link. Most people's eyes will glaze over if you don't make your point in small doses.

As to opium in Afghanistan, it is leading to heroin addiction in the US as servicemen bring their addictions back with them. This was also a problem in the Vietnam war, but this time the media isn't covering it like back then.

I don't think you can prove what you just said

[Maddog78]

This was a recent story in Canada worrying about troops there and the drug trade.


http://fairuse.100webcustomers.com/mayfaire/thestar01.htm

By Bruce Campion-Smith
Ottawa Bureau Chief

Troops lured by drug trade, report warns
Military cites 'high probability' some Canadians will become drug traffickers while in Afghanistan



Jan. 2, 2009

OTTAWA–There's a "high probability" some Canadian troops serving in Afghanistan – one of the world's biggest sources of illegal drugs – will get involved in the drug trade, a military police report warns.

"Access to illicit drugs in Afghanistan is routine," reads the report obtained by the Star.

"Easy access to heroin, hashish, cannabis presents a temptation for (Canadian) troops in the form of personal use and in the form of importation for the purpose of trafficking," it reads.

It notes that using and trafficking drugs are illegal and "contrary to the ethos" of the Canadian Forces, but concedes some of the 2,500 troops serving in the war-torn nation might not be able to resist.

The findings are outlined in a series of military police documents obtained by the Star under Access to Information legislation. The documents, requested in November 2007, were released last month.

One report cites a July 2007 search by military police officers, aided by a drug sniffer dog, of a Canadian convoy returning from Spin Boldak, on the Pakistan border.

The report says the dog "indicated" on one of the armoured vehicles as well as a heavy logistics vehicle that had been loaded on a flatbed trailer. "The results of the search do not provide sufficient evidence to substantiate any charges. However, the results are indicative that (Canadian) personnel may be involved in the use and traffic of illicit substances," the report said.

"Based on a variety of indicators (pre-deployment urinalysis, easy access to illicit drugs and investigations of illicit drug use), there is high probability that some (Forces) personnel will involve themselves in the drug trade," it notes.

snip

[Cid_Yama]

Prove it? Hell, I witnessed it.

[Dreamtwister]

Looks like long term history will have Bush winning in Iraq

Yeah, kind of like how Ford "won" in Vietnam, right?