[Cerberus]

“Ridiculous thought” The ridiculous thought is that’s your ridiculously stupid. The difference is that those societies developed the technology over several hundred years. This is like go to the Amazon jungle finding the least advanced tribe of people then giving them sophisticated technology to grow their food like hydroponics, GM crops BT corn non organic fertilizers you get the point. Wait a few years and then take the technology away, what do think will happen. There population will starve, just like the Africans and us the Americans will in the future

[muon]

Also, let's not forget that Africa is still too often an "imaginary" place which people of the West use to project their idyllic desires onto:

Africans have to use traditional farming techniques, Africans should protect biodiversity. Africans should keep their traditions intact. Africans have to live in nice photogenic villages. Africans should remain "natives" and "indigenous" peoples. Africans should paint their faces and make primitive noises. Africans should produce organic coffee for Europeans.

But Africans should especially not modernize, become wealthy, use efficient, large-scale modern farming techniques with fertilizers and tractors. No, Africans should be idyllic in their poverty, simply because we like it.


You know the drill. That's the discourse many NGOs, bourgeois philantropists and policy makers from the West subconsciously use to define their desires for Africa.

It's basically a racist discourse. Well-meant, but still racist and paternalist.


I'm not saying anyone of you is a racist, but some of you are certainly stuck in that fantasy screen which is Africa.

Africans don't have to use traditional farming techniques or protect biodiversity, they can follow other countries and screw up their lands if they choose to do so, as long as they are forewarned and given the informed choice and not just told 'here's a panacea that's going to feed your hungry children and make sure your progeny are never hungry again' and by the way thanks for helping make the fertiliser companies happy - are they African companies? - and not to mention the oil and gas companies - are many of those African owned? Look at the Daily Kos article and I wonder if we're not just continuing that extraction strategy when we come up with solutions like these, and then add in peak oil and I think the question is why not use those 'bourgeouis' techniques now - with African grown elephants, organics and humanure - instead of the financial extraction strategy which is likely not sustainable and only extracts money away from Africa and the people who it's supposed to be helping?

"But Africans should especially not modernize, become wealthy, use efficient, large-scale modern farming techniques with fertilizers and tractors. No, Africans should be idyllic in their poverty, simply because we like it." Whose definition of modernity are you using? Are you using a pre- or post-peak oil definition? How do Africans become wealthy when they're still on this extraction of wealth to "western" countries path? We still haven't fixed all the problems in our countries but we are so sure they should follow us and not find a way that works for Africa and Africans? Why is there an assumption that there is only one way to do things, one way to move forwards and modernise and it has to be this "western" model, and why do we assume it will be the best and only way for anyone who follows that model (and not think that maybe it's even better for those who are extracting the wealth?) There are other indicators of poverty than do you have a 42" plasma TV. Why do some (not necessarily the person I've quoted) seem to assume people in other countries can't be happy unless they're working in factories to export such products, that anything else isn't quite civilised or something?

Once you have Africa 'modernised' and mostly service economy which continent will you move to to build the factories to really service their economy? We have them, who will they exploit?

[MrBean]

What happens when they can't afford the seeds and fertilizers any more?

Don't worry. We'll just tax the wealthy nations through the UN to pay for these programs so sub-Saharan nations can grow their populations until every single natural resource is consumed.

Funny. Now compare how much natural resources Sub-Saharan Africa compared to US (and other "wealthy" nations). Both in total and per capita. Then you may even double the consumption by the "rabbit-like-blacks" and compare that to the US consumption.

Now, any conclusions where, planet-wise, demand destruction and population die-off should take place first? Of course, the blacks should just stop breading like rabbits before they eat Your Whole Planet...

[MrBean]

IMO, this is a disaster in the making. The "solution" is hybrid seeds and chemical fertilizers. Great...as long as fossil fuel fiesta lasts.

This is setting people up for a hard crash. What happens when they can't afford the seeds and fertilizers any more?

I agree. This is making people dependent on a system which we know is bound to fail. Developing open-pollinated seeds suited for the region and developing low-energy-input and lower labor methods of farming such as permaculture and fukuoka natural farming, would be a better solution, in my opinion. Also helping people understand the need to remain within the carrying capacity of the land, and helping with family planning.

The goal is to save people from starvation. You don't do this with permaculture or organic farming.

So first things first.

Once these farmers and regions and nations are out of food insecurity, they can gradually begin to learn about more bourgeois techniques, like the ones you are referring to.

Your opinions and attitudes represent societal ignorance and racist chauvinism of eurocentric imperialist daydreaming about its universal way of life fit for all and white man's manifest destiny of spreading technocratic "development" into every corner of Earth.

And FIY: permaculture, organic farming, agroforestry etc. (sustainable production) is not only the only sustainable way to feed people, it is also the most productive per hectare.

[lorenzo]

IMO, this is a disaster in the making. The "solution" is hybrid seeds and chemical fertilizers. Great...as long as fossil fuel fiesta lasts.

This is setting people up for a hard crash. What happens when they can't afford the seeds and fertilizers any more?

I agree. This is making people dependent on a system which we know is bound to fail. Developing open-pollinated seeds suited for the region and developing low-energy-input and lower labor methods of farming such as permaculture and fukuoka natural farming, would be a better solution, in my opinion. Also helping people understand the need to remain within the carrying capacity of the land, and helping with family planning.

The goal is to save people from starvation. You don't do this with permaculture or organic farming.

So first things first.

Once these farmers and regions and nations are out of food insecurity, they can gradually begin to learn about more bourgeois techniques, like the ones you are referring to.

Your opinions and attitudes represent societal ignorance and racist chauvinism of eurocentric imperialist daydreaming about its universal way of life fit for all and white man's manifest destiny of spreading technocratic "development" into every corner of Earth.

Maybe that's a conclusion I reached after being a professional anthropologist for over a decade.

My main point is threefold:

(1) that the realm of science represents universal truths. The truth as such is immune to cultural relativism.

(2) that modernity, once it has globalised and penetrated all cultures, is an irreversible process, through which all people will go.

(3) that, to limit the environmental damages brought about by modernity, it is best to go through the entire process, if necessary in a sped-up mode, rather than trying to block it, circumvent it or retraditionalise cultures in an artificial manner, only to sink deeper into it because of these futile, reactionary attempts at escaping modernity.


The situation in most developing countries nowadays is such that they are with one foot inside modernity, and with another foot outside of it. Stepping out of the system entirely will lead to demographic, social, political, cultural, economic and environmental disasters of an unprecedented scale. Going through it will lead to disasters as well, but of a smaller and more temporary nature. Hence, the *rational* option to choose is to go along with modernity. (Again, I believe that Reason is one of the few universalia, immune for cultural relativism, so in this debate there certainly are rational and irrational options).

The exact ways in which one can take modernity through to its finality are manifold, but the core idea, - that you must go through this process in any case -, is to me a rather obvious principle.

[MrBean]

(1) that the realm of science represents universal truths. The truth as such is immune to cultural relativism.

Totally illogical God-syndrome at its worst.

(2) that modernity, once it has globalised and penetrated all cultures, is an irreversible process, through which all people will go.

Which brings a curse to its host, to all those that believe in modernity and spread it makin all peoples victims of its violence. Totalitarianism like never before, of deeply suicidal kind, like all cancers.

(3) that, to limit the environmental damages brought about by modernity, it is best to go through the entire process, if necessary in a sped-up mode, rather than trying to block it, circumvent it or retraditionalise cultures in an artificial manner, only to sink deeper into it because of these futile, reactionary attempts at escaping modernity.

You are aware, though, that the cancer of modernity will try to kill it's host - Mother Earth - before accepting similar faith it is attempting to cause?

And I'm not, either, preaching fighting modernity in any way, except understanding it as what it is and how it would like to run its logical course.

The situation in most developing countries nowadays is such that they are with one foot inside modernity, and with another foot outside of it. Stepping out of the system entirely will lead to demographic, social, political, cultural, economic and environmental disasters of an unprecedented scale. Going through it will lead to disasters as well, but of a smaller and more temporary nature. Hence, the *rational* option to choose is to go along with modernity. (Again, I believe that Reason is one of the few universalia, immune for cultural relativism, so in this debate there certainly are rational and irrational options).

Survivalism is not rational. It's just greedy. But then, if you were truly rational, logic would dictate you to step out of the system one way or another, with your limited imagination I guess by self-annihilation - which you don't seem to fear as much as loosing the banner of "Only Acceptable Truth To Anyman" and the pretext for your greedy powerhunger it gives you.

The exact ways in which one can take modernity through to its finality are manifold, but the core idea, - that you must go through this process in any case -, is to me a rather obvious principle.

It is even more obvious that you want annihilation of all that that has even one foot outside your sandbox. You might just as well declare a war against all of us. But then, you have been warring against us (=yourself) since your birth, what makes you "you".

But since by fighting you we would become like you, out of the kindness of our hearts we won't deny even you and your likes the freedom of choice, so if it is your choise to take your suicidal mania as far as it takes you, then so be it. One who takes the sword, dies by the sword. We don't make all the rules, only small part of them. And there are even bigger gods than you make you to be, and then some. And yes, it breaks my heart to loose you. Dear cancer, you have become to us like the other foot. Any case, when crippled with what you have left of the planet, if any, we are bound to hop quite slowly with a stick, tending a garden, no more talk of running after the wild.

[evgeny]

Forty years after Kenyan independence from Britain, the words "Mau Mau" still conjure images of crazed savages hacking up hapless white settlers with machetes. The British Colonial Office, struggling to preserve its far-flung empire of dependencies after World War II, spread hysteria about Kenya's Mau Mau independence movement by depicting its supporters among the Kikuyu people as irrational terrorists and monsters. Caroline Elkins, a historian at Harvard University, has done a masterful job setting the record straight in her epic investigation, Imperial Reckoning. After years of research in London and Kenya, including interviews with hundreds of Kenyans, settlers, and former British officials, Elkins has written the first book about the eight-year British war against the Mau Mau.

She concludes that the war, one of the bloodiest and most protracted decolonization struggles of the past century, was anything but the "civilizing mission" portrayed by British propagandists and settlers. Instead, Britain engaged in an amazingly brutal campaign of ethnic cleansing that seemed to border on outright genocide. While only 32 white settlers were killed by Mau Mau insurgents, Elkins reports that tens of thousands of Kenyans were slaughtered, perhaps up to 300,000. The British also interned the entire 1.5 million population of Kikuyu, the colony's largest ethnic group, in barbed-wire villages, forced-labour reserves where famine and disease ran rampant, and prison camps that Elkins describes as the Kenyan "Gulag." The Kikuyu were subjected to unimaginable torture, or "screening," as British officials called it, which included being whipped, beaten, sodomized, castrated, burned, and forced to eat feces and drink urine. British officials later destroyed almost all official records of the campaign. Elkins infuses her account with the riveting stories of individual Kikuyu detainees, settlers, British officials, and soldiers. This is a stunning narrative that finally sheds light on a misunderstood war for which no one has yet been held officially accountable.

In a major historical study, Elkins, an assistant professor of history at Harvard, relates the gruesome, little-known story of the mass internment and murder of thousands of Kenyans at the hands of the British in the last years of imperial rule. Beginning with a trenchant account of British colonial enterprise in Kenya, Elkins charts white supremacy's impact on Kenya's largest ethnic group, the Kikuyu, and the radicalization of a Kikuyu faction sworn by tribal oath to extremism known as Mau Mau. Elkins recounts how in the late 1940s horrific Mau Mau murders of white settlers on their isolated farms led the British government to declare a state of emergency that lasted until 1960, legitimating a decade-long assault on the Kikuyu. First, the British blatantly rigged the trial of and imprisoned the moderate leader Jomo Kenyatta (later Kenya's first postindependence prime minister). Beginning in 1953, they deported or detained 1.4 million Kikuyu, who were systematically "screened," and in many cases tortured, to determine the extent of their Mau Mau sympathies. Having combed public archives in London and Kenya and conducted extensive interviews with both Kikuyu survivors and settlers, Elkins exposes the hypocrisy of Britain's supposed colonial "civilizing mission" and its subsequent coverups. A profoundly chilling portrait of the inherent racism and violence of "colonial logic," Elkins's account was also the subject of a 2002 BBC documentary entitled Kenya: White Terror. Her superbly written and impassioned book deserves the widest possible readership. B&w photos, maps.

http://www.amazon.ca/Imperial-Reckoning-Untold-Story-Britians/dp/product-description/0805080015

[darrem]

Hello, I'm deciding whether to go to Kenya for my Safari or another african country with wildlife. Which are the best places for Africa safari in Kenya. We don't want to use a tour company but ourselves.

[christina_9]

Top African Safari destinations in Kenya are the national parks. The best and most popular is Maasai Mara, Amboseli, Aberdare and Tsavo in that order. Find moreAfrican Safari information about Kenya from http://www.kenya-information-guide.com

[Romee]

I'll be traveling to Kenya on Safari. What do I need to have prior to travel? any tips and information that can help make my Kenya stay fun will be helpful. I'll be there for 2 weeks.

[niknak]

Body guards and a bank account with enough ransom to convince them to let you go.
Starving kenyans will do anything for money.

You do realize they are totally out of whet and grain? Vast famine going on there, I would cancel trip.

[vtsnowedin]

You need your head examined!!
+1 to niknak and while your on the continent why not schedule a side trip to Somalia next door or slip down to Zimbabwe and do it up right.

[WildRose]

Call your local community health office for information about which vaccinations you need to have. Also, be sure you have a passport/money holder that you can wear underneath your jacket or just inside the top of your pants. Be sure to check into whether you can drink the local water or need to buy bottled water while you're there. If bottled water is recommended, use it even when you brush your teeth!

[dinopello]

I'll be traveling to Kenya on Safari. What do I need to have prior to travel? any tips and information that can help make my Kenya stay fun will be helpful. I'll be there for 2 weeks.

This seems to be an odd place to ask... I know a fair number of people that travel to Africa, I'll see what they say but probably Wildrose has the right advice. I'm curious, are you female ? Most of the people I know who want to go there for vacation are females. A friend of mine is thinking of taking a job in Uganda and I know someone who runs a school in Uganda. He says it is beautiful, the people are poor but generally happy. The kids walk miles to get to school and are extremely motivated. The median age in Uganda is something ridiculous like 14 or 15.

[Aaron]

Call your local community health office for information about which vaccinations you need to have. Also, be sure you have a passport/money holder that you can wear underneath your jacket or just inside the top of your pants. Be sure to check into whether you can drink the local water or need to buy bottled water while you're there. If bottled water is recommended, use it even when you brush your teeth!

Ice = water

Take only endangered species... leave only shell casings.

[deMolay]

Drought and corruption is forcing millions in Kenya into starvation status. Famine

[Pretorian]

So?

[deMolay]

A new type of stove that runs on slum waste has proven to have many benefits. Reuters

[zeke]

Great idea...cook your food on fires fueled by garbage...

mmm...nothin' like the taste of meat which has been caressed by curls of smoke from burning plastic and other modern detritus!

schlurp!


z