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THE Immigration, Legal and Illegal, Thread (merged)

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Re: THE Immigration, Legal and Illegal, Thread (merged)

Unread postby Revi » Thu 04 Apr 2019, 11:15:54

Okay, so we start sending those kids back to the towns they have relatives in. Who rides the bus to the town? I used to live there, and it's a long way on bad roads back to every tiny town people are coming from. Some are on impassable roads in the rainy season, which starts in June. It's going to be a very difficult task.

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Re: THE Immigration, Legal and Illegal, Thread (merged)

Unread postby Cog » Thu 04 Apr 2019, 12:20:36

Their difficulties are not my problem. Don't make it my problem and we won't have to resort to more drastic measures to keep them out.
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Re: THE Immigration, Legal and Illegal, Thread (merged)

Unread postby Ibon » Thu 04 Apr 2019, 13:48:11

Newfie wrote:

But this is a real life game of Lifeboat.

?


I am not sure this is true. Assuming it is then we have to be consistent in taking the hard line. In other words Democrats would join hands with Republicans in more draconian immigration policies at the same time Republicans would join Democrats in defending abortion and actually making it easier for women to terminate pregnancies and in having access to contraceptives.

Until consistency is achieved we are only selecting where to be brutal which in other words means we are still being political or racist or nationalistic.

If we want to start with the low hanging fruit justified by an ecological mandate surely the unborn and immigrants would be in a similar category I would think.
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Re: THE Immigration, Legal and Illegal, Thread (merged)

Unread postby Newfie » Thu 04 Apr 2019, 15:37:11

Ibon,
I’m OK with that. I’m also OK with providing the bordering countries with some additional aid to make things better where they are.

Cog,
Their difficulties are not your/our problem in a legal sense. In a real world sense they are very much of a problem or else we would not have had the government shutdown and all the ensuing turmoil. Trump and his staff also seem to think it’s a problem, Hensel the National Emergency.

Now what is the best and most cost effective way to deal with the issue? Trump had a problem with Stormy Danielle. Presumably it was sex between consenting adults. Maybe considerations were involved? Who knows. But legally there were no ties, no problem. When it became an “optics” problem then Trump knew how to fix it. He made a deal.

He needs to show some similar outside the box creative thinking on the immigration issue. Walls in some areas probably make sense, at least in the short term. In the long term something else needs to be done.
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Re: THE Immigration, Legal and Illegal, Thread (merged)

Unread postby Cog » Thu 04 Apr 2019, 17:01:29

A simple law change that would require congressional action. If you enter the country illegally you can not claim asylum now or ever. You are immediately deported. No judicial review, no waits, no legal process to slow things down. If you try to enter again, you are sentenced to a hard labor camp for five years.

You can only claim asylum at an official point of entry and you must stay south of the border until it's approved, if ever.
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Re: THE Immigration, Legal and Illegal, Thread (merged)

Unread postby Newfie » Thu 04 Apr 2019, 17:58:28

Are you advocating for that change or describing existing law?
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Re: THE Immigration, Legal and Illegal, Thread (merged)

Unread postby Newfie » Fri 05 Apr 2019, 11:34:55

I very seldom read Tucker Carlson, too partisan, and much of this commentary of his is just that, partisan drivel. Yet there is a bit to it that, to me, makes good sense. In fact it’s something I’ve been saying for a while. So I found it interesting that it actually came up. It would have been far better for it to be framed in a less polarized manner, yet there it is.

First and most obvious, how many immigrants should we admit every year? What's the ideal number? We currently take a little over a million every year, legally. Should we double that to over two million? How about 10 million immigrants a year? How about 20 million? Is there any number that's too high? And if so, why?

While we are at it, what's the ideal population of the United States? Immigration affects population size more than any other factor. We're at about 325 million people in the United States today, and that's a lot. Our highways are crumbling, many of our cities are painfully overcrowded. How big should we get? 400 million? 600 million? A billion people?


https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/tucker- ... mmigration
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Re: THE Immigration, Legal and Illegal, Thread (merged)

Unread postby Cog » Fri 05 Apr 2019, 12:36:06

Newfie wrote:Are you advocating for that change or describing existing law?


The way its being treated right now by law is that if you set foot on US soil you are processed and released onto US soil until your asylum hearing. Those people become the illegals that never show up at their asylum hearings. So there is little incentive to actually show up at a point of entry and do it the right way.

Another factor in play. By US and international law, you must make an asylum claim in the first country you cross into. The Guatemalans and Hondurans should be claiming asylum in Mexico not transiting Mexico and claiming it in the USA.
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Re: THE Immigration, Legal and Illegal, Thread (merged)

Unread postby Newfie » Sat 06 Apr 2019, 08:20:57

Thanks for the reply.
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Re: THE Immigration, Legal and Illegal, Thread (merged)

Unread postby Revi » Mon 08 Apr 2019, 14:59:28

Cog wrote:Their difficulties are not my problem. Don't make it my problem and we won't have to resort to more drastic measures to keep them out.

What are you suggesting? Are you going to deport all your landscapers? Or the pool cleaners and dishwashers at your club?
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Re: THE Immigration, Legal and Illegal, Thread (merged)

Unread postby Cog » Mon 08 Apr 2019, 15:28:51

I mow my own lawn. I do my own dishes since most of my meals are home cooked and I don't have a pool. If wages have to go up to pay Americans to do those jobs I'm fine with that. You import masses of people who cant assimilate, it's you who will be assimilated. I don't give a damn how hard they work. They can work hard in their own country.
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Re: THE Immigration, Legal and Illegal, Thread (merged)

Unread postby onlooker » Mon 08 Apr 2019, 16:10:48

Cog, Republicans have had periods since WWII, whereby they had control of the Presidency and both houses of Congress. So, why didn't they reform Immigration laws to stop this flooding of immigrants? Simple, because the powerful business lobby ie. Chambers of Commerce like things the way they are, as they get to exploit these illegals wantonly. Like all the issues and problems in the US for the average person, follow the money that is what dictates the policies.
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Re: THE Immigration, Legal and Illegal, Thread (merged)

Unread postby Cog » Mon 08 Apr 2019, 16:16:44

Oh I get that completely onlooker. Both parties have motivations never to stop illegals. How many is enough? 10 million, 50 million, 100 million. Pick a number you want here. They will destroy the Usa and you and others desire it to happen.
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Re: THE Immigration, Legal and Illegal, Thread (merged)

Unread postby Newfie » Tue 23 Apr 2019, 09:53:14

This will be interesting.

The U.S. Supreme Court is set to hear oral arguments Tuesday in a legal battle with lasting implications that could dramatically affect political representation and federal funding over the next decade. The justices are weighing whether to allow the Trump administration to add a question about U.S. citizenship status to forms for the upcoming 2020 census.

In multiple lawsuits brought by dozens of states, cities and other groups, three federal judges at U.S. district courts have issued rulings blocking the administration's plans for the question. It asks, "Is this person a citizen of the United States?"

All three judges — in New York, California and Maryland — ruled that Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross' decision to include the question violated procedures for adding new census questions under administrative law. The judges in California and Maryland have also ruled that adding the question is unconstitutional because it hurts the government's ability to carry out the constitutional mandate for a once-a-decade head count of every person living in the U.S.


https://www.npr.org/2019/04/23/70521078 ... ip-questio
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Re: THE Immigration, Legal and Illegal, Thread (merged)

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Tue 23 Apr 2019, 17:45:28

It's an interesting question. Prior rulings have established that all resident people in this country enjoy some but not all rights delineated in the US Constitution. The right to vote is a key priviledge.

I myself take a pragmatic approach. If a person has a valid SSN and a history of paying payroll taxes, and a voter registration (either a party or non-aligned), they should be able to vote. If however they have been participating in an underground economy, have been enjoying the privileges of a citizen without paying - then they are a criminal and a burden on real citizens.
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Re: THE Immigration, Legal and Illegal, Thread (merged)

Unread postby Newfie » Tue 23 Apr 2019, 20:55:02

There a number of good reasons to start a federal citizen registry.

Not thinking of a lot of good reasons no to.
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Re: THE Immigration, Legal and Illegal, Thread (merged)

Unread postby Tanada » Mon 20 May 2019, 15:30:45

On-the-spot DNA tests could be key to ICE verifying 'immigrant families' at border

The U.S. government has adopted a DNA testing system that would allow border officials to assess within two hours whether immigrants claiming to be in the same family are telling the truth.

Last June, the FBI approved the use of ANDE, an automated system which was developed with the military and can be operated by a nonscientist to process cheek swabs and other DNA. In October, it was used on human remains found after wildfires swept through Northern California. It is now under consideration by the Department of Homeland Security and could be used by Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

Federal immigration officials believe the situation at the U.S.-Mexico border is about to become more complicated due to an uptick in falsified documents being used by migrants.

“One of the things that we've seen a huge increase in and our partners in CBP [Customs and Border Protection] have seen, too, is the use of fraudulent documents,” deputy director of ICE’s Homeland Security Investigations arm, Derek Benner, said during a speech in Texas last week.

“Today when we're confronted with family units — I actually call them unverified family units because it's difficult to know but for the expertise of CBP officers and Border Patrol agents, who are able to question or interrogate that family situation based on the evidence that they have on their person and statements that they're able to get from the adults — they do the best they can, and then absent any other information their claim goes as is."

Part of the issue for federal law enforcement is not being able to verify familial relationship other than by paper documents.

ANDE DNA processing company says it can verify those relationships within two hours, compared to the weeks it usually takes local police or federal law enforcement to get results from labs.

“Identifying an individual at the border today probably requires an officer to say, ‘I don’t know if this is their kid or not their kid,’” Annette Mattern, spokeswoman for the company, told the Washington Examiner. “DNA doesn’t have to make those judgments. It’s just science.”

The sample is inserted into the machine and scanned. The machine locks down the sample and stores its information. The information can then be cross-referenced with an external database.

“Ninety minutes later we have an identification of that person, then we can swab the relatives and we can determine if they are blood relatives,” Mattern said. “But today, my understanding is there is no DNA that is being done at the port [of entry].”

ANDE was co-developed with the military when the Pentagon needed mobile DNA processing for missions in the Middle East and elsewhere. It had to be “ruggedized,” Mattern said, and able to be done in the back of a Humvee, something that would make it a good fit for the border.

Benner said the government is now “rushing” to catch up with the problem but said “interagency confusion” may delay a response.

The ANDE system, or one like it, is an obvious tool for CBP or the Health and Human Services Department's Office of Refugee Resettlement, which handles the release of unaccompanied migrant children.

DHS has made no announcement about using ANDE on the southern border or by immigration officers processing visa and green card applications.

LINK

DNA Testing at Border Outs Migrant Who Claimed Six-Month-Old Baby Was His Son, Charged With Smuggling

In just 90 minutes, United States Immigration and Customs Enforcement officials were able to determine that an illegal immigrant who arrived at the U.S.-Mexico border with a six-month-old child was lying.

As the Washington Examiner reports, the migrant claimed the child was his own as he sought passage into the country. The new rapid DNA testing determined he shared no relationship with the child and he was arrested for alien smuggling.

From the report:

On May 7, Border Patrol agents based in Hidalgo, Texas, watched 51-year-old Amilcar Guiza-Reyes wade through the Rio Grande with an infant. After the pair arrived on U.S. soil, they were taken into custody and brought back to U.S. Customs and Border Protection’s Central Processing Center in McAllen, Texas.

Agents learned Guiza-Reyes had been deported in 2013. He was turned over to ICE’s Homeland Security Investigations agents, who believed he may not have been the father of the child.

ICE ordered a DNA test of the pair and the man consented to a cheek swab for the two. The swab was run through a machine, which concluded the two were not related.

The child was then turned over to the Department of Health and Human Services’ Office of Refugee Resettlement as the child is now an unaccompanied minor.

The new pilot program came under quick scrutiny when it was first announced by the Trump administration and Democrats in Congress resisted it. The administration continued anyways and already found success in charging a migrant with smuggling.

The Washington Examiner reports the DNA testing was only conducted for one week at select facilities near McAllen and El Paso, Texas.

Here’s more from the report:

The Washington Examiner reported in March the Department of Homeland Security and ICE were looking at adopting the rapid testing system. On May 1, Homeland Security announced it would launch a pilot of the program in instances where agents could not verify a family unit’s relationships.

The debut marked the first time DNA testing of any sort has been used at the border. Currently, authorities must use verbal statements and written documents to verify family connections.
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Re: THE Immigration, Legal and Illegal, Thread (merged)

Unread postby Newfie » Mon 20 May 2019, 16:13:40

I can see this creating some very awkward moments when Moms kid doesn’t match Dads DNA. For some populations that’s close to a 30% rate.

May create more problems than it solves.
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Re: THE Immigration, Legal and Illegal, Thread (merged)

Unread postby careinke » Tue 21 May 2019, 04:15:57

Newfie wrote:I can see this creating some very awkward moments when Moms kid doesn’t match Dads DNA. For some populations that’s close to a 30% rate.

May create more problems than it solves.


As a US citizen, I could really care less if a criminal family has this problem.
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Re: THE Immigration, Legal and Illegal, Thread (merged)

Unread postby Newfie » Tue 21 May 2019, 07:49:00

I was thinking more of the poor officer who breaks the news and then has to control the shit storm.
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