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THE Global Dimming Thread (merged)

Re: Atmospheric Brown Clouds

Unread postby mos6507 » Fri 14 Nov 2008, 09:56:05

[flash width=425 height=344]http://www.youtube.com/v/ELDVjutzan8&hl=en&fs=1[/flash]
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Re: Atmospheric Brown Clouds

Unread postby allmeyer » Fri 14 Nov 2008, 10:12:03

That movie looks awesome. Can't wait to watch it.
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Re: Atmospheric Brown Clouds

Unread postby dinopello » Fri 14 Nov 2008, 11:02:55

How now, brown cloud ?

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Re: Atmospheric Brown Clouds

Unread postby mos6507 » Fri 14 Nov 2008, 12:32:00

allmeyer wrote:That movie looks awesome. Can't wait to watch it.


Make sure you see it in widescreen and be either drunk, high, or half asleep at 3AM. Preferably all 3.
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Re: Atmospheric Brown Clouds

Unread postby Commanding_Heights » Fri 14 Nov 2008, 13:33:28

Does this mean I should short my stock in Coppertone?
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Re: Atmospheric Brown Clouds

Unread postby vaseline2008 » Fri 14 Nov 2008, 14:39:08

Sorry, I had Mexican the other night... :roll:
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Re: Atmospheric Brown Clouds

Unread postby Tyler_JC » Fri 14 Nov 2008, 16:23:51

Oh ya, filling Bejing with a million+ diesel cars, GREAT IDEA. :roll:

At least the people causing the pollution are able to physically see the damage they are doing to themselves. Gives them a real incentive to change their ways.

Most Americans can't see the damage they're doing because our pollution is shifted overseas. If we had open pits of garbage in suburbia, the attitudes might change.
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Re: Atmospheric Brown Clouds

Unread postby Ferretlover » Fri 14 Nov 2008, 17:21:10

(Last night) the anchorperson said that 300,000 deaths (mostly due to lung cancer) per year could be directly attributed to the 'brown cloud.'
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Re: THE Global Dimming Thread (merged)

Unread postby dorlomin » Sun 07 Dec 2008, 12:19:15

China energy production down "7%"

Hmmmm if this is true then it might be an interesting time to test the global dimming hypothises.
British Airways Plc, Europe’s third- largest airline, will cut more than 100 jobs at London’s Gatwick airport as it reduces services there by 15 percent from mid-2009.

The number of aircraft based at the airport will be reduced to 37 from 41, the Harmondsworth, England-based airline said today in an e-mailed statement. The cuts to ground operations staffing will be on a voluntary basis, according to the statement.

Link

15% cut by BA? Seems the Atlantic may be in for some warmer days and cooler nights.
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Re: THE Global Dimming Thread (merged)

Unread postby Heineken » Sun 07 Dec 2008, 21:00:15

I suspect that such relatively small decreases in air traffic will make much of a difference. Remember, after 9/11 traffic (over the US, at least) virtually disappeared for a week or so. Very different.
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Global Clouding defeating Global Warming?

Unread postby Sys1 » Sat 20 Jun 2009, 06:44:46

This thread is a question. I've read in many articles that because of the melting of permafrost/artic/antartic ice, the lack of Albedo effect resulting of it (meaning solar heat is reflecting to space) could increase Global warming much more, the story ending in a kind of exponential GW cooking mankind and other species.

I would like you to debate on my following hypothesis, perhabs naive, but well, I want to be sure.
As Earth is getting hotter, I guess more and more sea water turns to clouds, those clouds becoming largers and staying longer in the atmosphere, the lack of cold preventing them to turn back to liquid water. From any Earth's picture took from space, anybody can witness the presence of white clouds all around the world. I suppose those clouds are balancing any warming on Earth since :
1) White clouds should behave a bit like ice, they protect us by the abedo's effect.
2) Clouds should prevent lower atmosphere from heating since they look to me as a kind of protective layer blocking Sun's light.

I guess those considerations have already been studied by scientists... Perhabs the main difficulty is to implement clouds in global warming models?
Last edited by Sys1 on Sat 20 Jun 2009, 07:13:26, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Global Clouding defeating Global Warming?

Unread postby hillsidedigger » Sat 20 Jun 2009, 07:07:22

As well, human activity is injecting considerable amounts of smoke, soot, ash and dust into the atmosphere resulting in what some call 'global dimming'.
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Re: Global Clouding defeating Global Warming?

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Sat 20 Jun 2009, 07:41:23

The answer is no. The increased formation of cirrus clouds is actually trapping additional heat.

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Re: Global Clouding defeating Global Warming?

Unread postby Heineken » Sat 20 Jun 2009, 08:22:40

hillsidedigger wrote:As well, human activity is injecting considerable amounts of smoke, soot, ash and dust into the atmosphere resulting in what some call 'global dimming'.


Since global dimming depends on human economic activity, which in turn depends on intensive energy use, it makes us more vulnerable, not less, to global warming in the long run.
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Re: Global Clouding defeating Global Warming?

Unread postby eXpat » Sat 20 Jun 2009, 08:33:12

Nice to see you here Heineken [smilie=adios.gif]
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Re: Global Clouding defeating Global Warming?

Unread postby pablonite » Sat 20 Jun 2009, 09:32:37

Sys1 wrote:Perhabs the main difficulty is to implement clouds in global warming models?

A model can be anything you want it to be, if you have fantasies about planet earth over cooking all lifeforms in the near future you can make like the politician Al Gore and pretend CO2 rises before the warming and inject that into your fantasy model to scare the bejeezus out of your audience! Your brain is an amazing thing, too bad its output relies strictly on the inputs - and all your inputs have been taken over by people you really can't trust anymore.

The UN controlled IPCC is just a propaganda arm of the new one world government. The mainstream media will not tell you about all of the scientests who quit in disgust after realizing this.

31,478 American scientists would like people like you to be a little more critical of what you are told to be "the facts" before you indirectly support something like "cap-and-trade", where a bunch of suits make a pile of money virtually slinging around CO2 molecules on their computer screens.

http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=14000

Next time your outside look at the sun with some heavy duty shades on and ask yourself, "Hmmm, could that thing have an effect on our climate and can a bunch of politicians do anything about it?"

The observed lack of sunspot activity is probably causing our current cooling period which is why we call it "climate change" instead of "global warming", got to change with the times to support the manipulation of the brains otherwise the obvious becomes too obvious.

Your brain wants some new inputs!
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Re: Global Clouding defeating Global Warming?

Unread postby vision-master » Sat 20 Jun 2009, 09:39:38

Your brain wants some new inputs!
http://aftermathnews.wordpress.com/cate ... ming-hoax/



But TPTB have made them illegal. :P
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Re: Global Clouding defeating Global Warming?

Unread postby dorlomin » Sat 20 Jun 2009, 09:59:29

pablonite wrote:The UN controlled IPCC is just a propaganda arm of the new one world government.

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Re: Global Clouding defeating Global Warming?

Unread postby Lore » Sat 20 Jun 2009, 10:43:14

Welcome back Heineken!

pablonite wrote:A model can be anything you want it to be, if you have fantasies about planet earth over cooking all lifeforms in the near future you can make like the politician Al Gore and pretend CO2 rises before the warming and inject that into your fantasy model to scare the bejeezus out of your audience! Your brain is an amazing thing, too bad its output relies strictly on the inputs - and all your inputs have been taken over by people you really can't trust anymore.

The UN controlled IPCC is just a propaganda arm of the new one world government. The mainstream media will not tell you about all of the scientests who quit in disgust after realizing this.


Hey, pay attention to the facts about the science, and cut the crap. Your tin foil hat is a little too tight. A mass exodus of scientists from the IPCC studies is a myth. Please show us all of them? Other then a few who left after losing their pet theories when exposed to study this argument just doesn't hold water.

pablonite wrote:31,478 American scientists would like people like you to be a little more critical of what you are told to be "the facts" before you indirectly support something like "cap-and-trade", where a bunch of suits make a pile of money virtually slinging around CO2 molecules on their computer screens.


What 31,478 American scientists? Oh, you mean the bogus Oregon Petition again, do a search here, which hasn't been updated in over a year, but is still used by people like yourself in a feckless attempt to show that there is some greater understanding by a subculture of qualified scientific skeptics. Most of which carry degrees in medical or engineering sciences

pablonite wrote:Next time your outside look at the sun with some heavy duty shades on and ask yourself, "Hmmm, could that thing have an effect on our climate and can a bunch of politicians do anything about it?"

The observed lack of sunspot activity is probably causing our current cooling period which is why we call it "climate change" instead of "global warming", got to change with the times to support the manipulation of the brains otherwise the obvious becomes too obvious.


One more time, we know exactly how much irradiative energy the earth receives from the sun. No discernable trend has been shown since the 1950s. Sorry, try another tactic.

People like yourself have got to begin to be feeling awfully lonely. Everyday the evidence mounts and everyday we hear the same limp arguments. Yes, I know, you don't like it, it's too unbelievable to contemplate. Climate change takes away most our self righteous entitlements, so it must be a left wing plot. However, it's not going to go away and the sooner you reach acceptance and understanding the better you'll be able to deal with what the future holds. After all, there is no escape.
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Re: Global Clouding defeating Global Warming?

Unread postby Tanada » Sat 20 Jun 2009, 13:10:02

Sys1 wrote:This thread is a question. I've read in many articles that because of the melting of permafrost/artic/antartic ice, the lack of Albedo effect resulting of it (meaning solar heat is reflecting to space) could increase Global warming much more, the story ending in a kind of exponential GW cooking mankind and other species.

I would like you to debate on my following hypothesis, perhabs naive, but well, I want to be sure.
As Earth is getting hotter, I guess more and more sea water turns to clouds, those clouds becoming largers and staying longer in the atmosphere, the lack of cold preventing them to turn back to liquid water. From any Earth's picture took from space, anybody can witness the presence of white clouds all around the world. I suppose those clouds are balancing any warming on Earth since :
1) White clouds should behave a bit like ice, they protect us by the abedo's effect.
2) Clouds should prevent lower atmosphere from heating since they look to me as a kind of protective layer blocking Sun's light.

I guess those considerations have already been studied by scientists... Perhaps the main difficulty is to implement clouds in global warming models?


The simplest answer I can give you goes something like this. Currently clouds cover roughly half the Earth at any one time and ice/snow covers another 20%. The Clouds are on average about 65% to 70% reflective of sunlight, ice and snow are about 90% reflective. So in theory if you melt all of that 20% of ice and snow year around you would need to increase global cloud cover from about 50% to about 80% to stabilize the temperature.

Fortunately so far as we can tell this is what always happened in the past and it is what I expect to happen if a climate flip occurs into the hothouse part of the global cycle like we last had 40 million ybp.
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