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THE Gasoline Price Thread Pt. 5

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.

Re: THE Gasoline Price Thread Pt. 5

Unread postby Armageddon » Tue 27 Oct 2020, 22:12:56

AdamB wrote:
vtsnowedin wrote:They can use this as the prototype for a thread going off topic.
But I suppose it does not matter until gas prices change by say fifty cents a gallon up or down. Maybe next May or so?


Based on current economic conditions and slack demand, easily available crude oil with nothing more than firing up some additional rigs, a pandemic which should be around keeping demand slack for the next half year, it is unlikely that fuel prices are going to change much during that time period.

We've already discovered that peak oil itself was a crock, yet the website survives being completely off topic doesn't appear to be terminal. A little reasonable off topic isn't killer.




Peak oil is a crock? Fracking and shale are the only things masking it. Peak oil definitely came true. Just because they found a technology to temporarily squeeze a little more out doesn’t change this fact.
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Re: THE Gasoline Price Thread Pt. 5

Unread postby AdamB » Tue 27 Oct 2020, 22:40:15

Armageddon wrote:Peak oil is a crock?


The one you claimed happened 15 years ago? Sure. The axiomatic aspects that Hubbert described in 1956 that you don't understand because Alex Jones can't figure it out? And therefore you can't parrot....that part is rigth as rain.

Armageddon wrote: Fracking and shale are the only things masking it.


Where do you think most all oil and natural gas of the world comes from? Organic rich shales. Duh. Did Alex not explain to you the difference between source and reservoir rocks, and when they are one and the same? That would be too much, teaching a parrot even the most basic rock types. Ask your wife for some money to take a local community college course in...you know...anything? Over a decade you might work up for a entry level geology course.

Armageddon wrote: Peak oil definitely came true.


Says the parrot who doesn't know the difference between a smaller oil production number in the past, and a bigger one in the present, and parrot is confused with the temporal component.

Armageddon wrote: Just because they found a technology to temporarily squeeze a little more out doesn’t change this fact.


What found technology are you talking about? Hydraulic fracturing began in its modern form in the late 1940's. We engineers were doing multi-stage slick water fracturing in shale wells during the late 80's and into the 90's. I was taught to do this by folks with decades of experience.
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Re: THE Gasoline Price Thread Pt. 5

Unread postby Armageddon » Tue 27 Oct 2020, 22:44:15

Not even worth responding to.
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Re: THE Gasoline Price Thread Pt. 5

Unread postby AdamB » Tue 27 Oct 2020, 23:00:46

Armageddon wrote:Not even worth responding to.


The standard parrot response when parroting doesn't work. Go forth and learn...yearn to not be a parrot! :lol:
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Re: THE Gasoline Price Thread Pt. 5

Unread postby Armageddon » Tue 27 Oct 2020, 23:13:03

Ive said it a million times.... the global economy will crash and demand will plummet which will mask PO.
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Re: THE Gasoline Price Thread Pt. 5

Unread postby careinke » Wed 28 Oct 2020, 03:24:16

$2.79 today for both diesel and regular gas.
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Re: THE Gasoline Price Thread Pt. 5

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Wed 28 Oct 2020, 04:19:50

AdamB wrote:Based on current economic conditions and slack demand, easily available crude oil with nothing more than firing up some additional rigs, a pandemic which should be around keeping demand slack for the next half year, it is unlikely that fuel prices are going to change much during that time period.

I see the most likely first change as the enactment of the first Harris "Green new deal" carbon tax which could come as early as next summer. :-x
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Re: THE Gasoline Price Thread Pt. 5

Unread postby AdamB » Wed 28 Oct 2020, 10:16:22

careinke wrote:$2.79 today for both diesel and regular gas.


Well that sucks. Do you live in one of those states that taxes the crap outta road fuels?
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Re: THE Gasoline Price Thread Pt. 5

Unread postby AdamB » Wed 28 Oct 2020, 10:20:27

vtsnowedin wrote:
AdamB wrote:Based on current economic conditions and slack demand, easily available crude oil with nothing more than firing up some additional rigs, a pandemic which should be around keeping demand slack for the next half year, it is unlikely that fuel prices are going to change much during that time period.

I see the most likely first change as the enactment of the first Harris "Green new deal" carbon tax which could come as early as next summer. :-x


Well, it seems reasonable to assume right now that an old white man will win the Presidency. You really think the first thing some politico will throw out there are taxes that Joe Sixpack will immediately notice? As opposed to rolling in the reinstatement of old rules since discontinued, that would be environmentally effective without Joe Sixpack immediately noticing that he is the target?
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Re: THE Gasoline Price Thread Pt. 5

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Wed 28 Oct 2020, 10:46:07

AdamB wrote:
Well, it seems reasonable to assume right now that an old white man will win the Presidency. You really think the first thing some politico will throw out there are taxes that Joe Sixpack will immediately notice? As opposed to rolling in the reinstatement of old rules since discontinued, that would be environmentally effective without Joe Sixpack immediately noticing that he is the target?
That would assume a level of intelligence, planning and finesse in the leadership of the Democrat party that I have not observed.
But reguardless of the mechanism employed I expect the price of fuel to rise artificially due to Harris/Biden administration polices.
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Re: THE Gasoline Price Thread Pt. 5

Unread postby AdamB » Wed 28 Oct 2020, 11:38:25

vtsnowedin wrote:
AdamB wrote:
Well, it seems reasonable to assume right now that an old white man will win the Presidency. You really think the first thing some politico will throw out there are taxes that Joe Sixpack will immediately notice? As opposed to rolling in the reinstatement of old rules since discontinued, that would be environmentally effective without Joe Sixpack immediately noticing that he is the target?
That would assume a level of intelligence, planning and finesse in the leadership of the Democrat party that I have not observed.


Happens all the time. You should have seen Obama's EPA when they were doing the methane studies on industry. Knowing nothing about the oil industry they swung into action quite ignorantly and effectively, manufacturing unmanageable rules and whatnot. A chimpanzee can effectively pick up where that nonsense left off.

Where have you ever gotten the impression that any of the trained sycophant's of the politicos have much in the way of intelligence, or the ability to plan with finesse?

vtsnowedin wrote: But reguardless of the mechanism employed I expect the price of fuel to rise artificially due to Harris/Biden administration polices.


I expect all sorts of things to react artificially, ammo being one that seems to be currently preemptive in nature. Volatile fuel prices, raging political correctness with anyone not complying with doublegood unspeak being lectured by the local party bosses, sanctuary cities and counties popping up in all of flyover country,

It will be interesting to watch, just as the last 4 years have been. I should have stockpiled more ammo during the past 4 years though.
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Re: THE Gasoline Price Thread Pt. 5

Unread postby careinke » Wed 28 Oct 2020, 13:54:58

AdamB wrote:
careinke wrote:$2.79 today for both diesel and regular gas.


Well that sucks. Do you live in one of those states that taxes the crap outta road fuels?


One of the highest in the nation (Washington State). That's OK, I'd much rather pay consumption taxes than Income or wealth taxes.
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Re: THE Gasoline Price Thread Pt. 5

Unread postby AdamB » Wed 28 Oct 2020, 14:23:41

careinke wrote:
AdamB wrote:
careinke wrote:$2.79 today for both diesel and regular gas.


Well that sucks. Do you live in one of those states that taxes the crap outta road fuels?


One of the highest in the nation (Washington State). That's OK, I'd much rather pay consumption taxes than Income or wealth taxes.


Seriously, Washington State doesn't have an income tax? As far as a wealth tax, that seems like it could be any kind of tax, make a buck, someone takes a piece, presto, wealth tax exists.
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Re: THE Gasoline Price Thread Pt. 5

Unread postby ralfy » Wed 28 Oct 2020, 20:18:19

Peak oil is a crock because another crisis caused the economy to crater. Good grief.

And he's still here to continue trolling.
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Re: THE Gasoline Price Thread Pt. 5

Unread postby AdamB » Wed 28 Oct 2020, 22:15:42

ralfy wrote:Peak oil is a crock because another crisis caused the economy to crater. Good grief.


The peak oil you were sold by the palm reader was a crock, yes.

Remember when you maintained that list of all these peak oil studies? Checked them out lately? How stupid do they look now!!

I recommend not taking palm readers so seriously next time you play in the doom fantasy league.
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Re: THE Gasoline Price Thread Pt. 5

Unread postby careinke » Wed 28 Oct 2020, 23:13:35

AdamB wrote:Seriously, Washington State doesn't have an income tax? As far as a wealth tax, that seems like it could be any kind of tax, make a buck, someone takes a piece, presto, wealth tax exists.


We do not have an Income Tax ...Yet. The state gets it's funding through a 8 1/2% sales tax. Plus some property tax money, but most of that money goes for Bonds and local levies. The state also charges use fees for State Parks, toll bridges etc. Finally, the state has a B&O tax, mostly on small businesses who were not able to buy exemptions like Boeing and Amazon. The B&O tax is a tax on the businesses total assets.

Personally, I would love to see the property and B&O taxes go away. With the dramatic rise in property values, the increased property taxes are driving a lot of elderly out of their homes. A better solution, would be a sales tax whenever the property is sold. Then, you would actually own your property and not rent it from the government. Hell, I would settle for a freeze on the amount of you property taxes at the time of purchase, with an adjustment when sold. At least then you could plan your retirement expenses.

The Business and Occupation tax (which was just doubled), unduly targets small businesses and newly established businesses.

So, not perfect, but it does keep the state out of our personal finances.
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Re: THE Gasoline Price Thread Pt. 5

Unread postby AdamB » Wed 28 Oct 2020, 23:32:17

careinke wrote:So, not perfect, but it does keep the state out of our personal finances.


A 4.X% flat income tax here. Having lived in some states where it was more variable, I like knowing that it is a straightup number. We still have a higher sales tax, 6-7% I believe. Property taxes as well. I'm pretty sure I'm in a high cost, tax wise, state. Been trying to figure out where to retire to minimize state taxes on retirement income, at the least.
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Re: THE Gasoline Price Thread Pt. 5

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Thu 29 Oct 2020, 12:52:26

AdamB wrote:
careinke wrote:So, not perfect, but it does keep the state out of our personal finances.


A 4.X% flat income tax here. Having lived in some states where it was more variable, I like knowing that it is a straightup number. We still have a higher sales tax, 6-7% I believe. Property taxes as well. I'm pretty sure I'm in a high cost, tax wise, state. Been trying to figure out where to retire to minimize state taxes on retirement income, at the least.

One really has to look at the whole picture, as there are a LOT of trade-offs, and not just financial. And of course, TPTB can always change the rules by raising this or that tax, significantly, and claiming they had no choice due to "needed" spending, etc.

My dad, who was kind of a superhero re making good financial decisions, was seriously looking at moving from central KY to Boulder Colorado with IBM's copier mission in the early 70's. Good career opportunity. He was thinking things looked close financially, given he would be making significantly more money over time. THEN he looked at the property taxes. On top of the high housing costs, that made it simply a BAD DEAL.

Overall, with less taxes, there will tend to be less services. When you're retired, how important are good hospitals and clinics, for example? Or if, say, income taxes are low, then sales taxes will tend to be high to compensate. Or property taxes. Or both.

And then there are the irrational things. In KY, I get a large deduction from my state income taxes, re my retirement income (pension). Why? I'm no longer working, and as I age, statistically I may become a relative burden to the state vs. someone young, healthy, and working a full time job. Is it that statistically, many retirees are relatively wealthy and so will pay state income taxes in abundance anyway? And of course, one never knows when such breaks can suddenly change, if they're a key part of a decision to live in area X.

If weather were the only issue, I'd live in Hawaii, and never deal with snow again. But then if I look at just the housing costs, the volcano risk, and the increasing risk of storms in AGW, it's NEVER MIND. Oh, and AGW is making most KY winters quite noticeably milder as well.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: THE Gasoline Price Thread Pt. 5

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Thu 29 Oct 2020, 13:25:51

Yes and a tax by another name is still a tax.
New Hampshire does not have a sales tax of personnel income tax. But it does have a dividends and interest tax and a business profits tax. So the rich living off dividends pay tax on what dividends IN came so why that is not an income tax I have never figured out. Small business make out by paying all their profits to themselves as salaries which works for the lawyers and dentists but the big box stores have to pay on their profits so it is hidden in the price like Prego sauce.
When I built my house the difference between the same brand of windows picked up untaxed in New Hampshire and taxed Vermont ones was so little it would not cover the gas to go pick them up.
I'm probably a bit behind the times as they were constantly trying to get a squeeze on the Lawyers and Dentists but I have not kept up on that front. :)
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Re: THE Gasoline Price Thread Pt. 5

Unread postby Subjectivist » Mon 09 Nov 2020, 15:53:08

$2.09/gal here today.
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