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THE Gasoline Price Thread Pt. 5

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.

Re: THE Gasoline Price Thread Pt. 5

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Mon 26 Oct 2020, 18:25:16

I am not a first adopter at anything and prefer to watch a coming thing go through it's growing pains at other peoples expense and then buy what has proven to work. This goes back to the first Commodore 64 computer and before that hand held calculators.
I came across an old calculator languishing in a junk draw the other day. It is a Texas instruments TI-30Xa which was quite the unit in it's day. It came on and still does more math then I remember how to do.
At present the nearest Tesla super charge station is eighteen miles away and I don't think that was there six months ago.
I do not mind not being first in line. :-D
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Re: THE Gasoline Price Thread Pt. 5

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Mon 26 Oct 2020, 19:50:44

AdamB wrote:I coughed up $25G 5 years ago or more now. 135K on it now. Doesn't sound to me like you've got much skin in the game. I'm now playing a rear guard action against the wife and her raging Tesla desire, and trying to talk the daughter in her new found professional wealth to not go for the MustangE without a dedicated charging port at her apartment complex.

I know youngsters and women are often impractical re mechanical things, but it seems MADNESS to me to want to have an expensive BEV as one's only car UNLESS one has a reliable means of level 2 overnight charging (or level 1 with a SHORT commute) at home.

Depending on supply/demand, regulations, etc., no telling how big a hassle and expense standing in line for public chargers (or trying to find ones not busy) seems dicey indeed, over the next several years (or more) as pluggable cars become more popular.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: THE Gasoline Price Thread Pt. 5

Unread postby AdamB » Mon 26 Oct 2020, 23:11:02

vtsnowedin wrote: I came across an old calculator languishing in a junk draw the other day. It is a Texas instruments TI-30Xa which was quite the unit in it's day. It came on and still does more math then I remember how to do.


I've got a solar powered TI-34 from the year it began manufacture. It drilled wells offshore, did multiple stage completions in shale wells, sat by my side in court cases and bankruptcy acquisitions, has bent aluminum corners from getting squashed in my coveralls against drill pipe, and banged around in my briefcase, can't quite read all the keys now, made it through a full career checking numbers coming off my computers during a science career, loaned it to kids getting their first accounting degrees when they needed a backup to some fancy smancy 8 battery powered graphing thing.

Never languished in a drawer, sits next to my colored pencils, scissors, high lighters to this day. I still need to check python calculations and balance the occasional check book, right?

The tools of a professional, sometimes they never go away. And never needed a battery.

vtsnowedin wrote: At present the nearest Tesla super charge station is eighteen miles away and I don't think that was there six months ago.
I do not mind not being first in line. :-D


I've never used a Tesla charging station in my life. Hardly a requirement in my experience of some 6 years of EVing. Let them eat cake....charging at home has been an absolutely wonderful alternative to coughing up $$ to the local jihady support stores. American electricity for American EVs!
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Re: THE Gasoline Price Thread Pt. 5

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Tue 27 Oct 2020, 01:08:22

python calculations ???? :lol:
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Re: THE Gasoline Price Thread Pt. 5

Unread postby AdamB » Tue 27 Oct 2020, 10:30:58

vtsnowedin wrote:python calculations ???? :lol:


In an era of new languages and procedures and intermixed reading and writing into non-integrated systems, I often find myself sitting at the crux of a calculation that I'm not convinced is delivering the answer I thought it was supposed to. I revert to engineering 101 routines, break out some paper, track down all the variables involved, scribble everything out, and make sure that whatever the answer is, is the actual answer.

Gotta start somewhere when modern things seem to mis-fire. I've got pencil, paper, a 35 year old solar calculator and quite a bit of experience with modern computer problems. So sure. I specialize in using relational databases if only because I deal in large amounts of data. Python has come along recently in doing most of the processing, and if nothing else it is easy to read the code and calculations when things short circuit and check it manually.
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Re: THE Gasoline Price Thread Pt. 5

Unread postby mousepad » Tue 27 Oct 2020, 10:55:29

AdamB wrote:
vtsnowedin wrote:python calculations ???? :lol:


In an era of new languages and procedures and intermixed reading and writing into non-integrated systems, I often find myself sitting at the crux of a calculation that I'm not convinced is delivering the answer I thought it was supposed to. I revert to engineering 101 routines, break out some paper, track down all the variables involved, scribble everything out, and make sure that whatever the answer is, is the actual answer.

Gotta start somewhere when modern things seem to mis-fire. I've got pencil, paper, a 35 year old solar calculator and quite a bit of experience with modern computer problems. So sure. I specialize in using relational databases if only because I deal in large amounts of data. Python has come along recently in doing most of the processing, and if nothing else it is easy to read the code and calculations when things short circuit and check it manually.


What an ego! Why don't you just say you hack some code using a language made for people that hardly know shit about computers.
Sometimes I have to do some yard work. Could you help me describe this big ego style, so I can impress by friends? Weed-wacking just doesn't sound that cool. I'm sure you can do better.
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Re: THE Gasoline Price Thread Pt. 5

Unread postby AdamB » Tue 27 Oct 2020, 11:24:24

mousepad wrote:What an ego! Why don't you just say you hack some code using a language made for people that hardly know shit about computers.


You could simplify it that way if you'd like. Not being a computer person, I can't say I know much about what the in languages are, or the magical hierarchy of the coding monkey world.

I just need to make sure code monkeys don't screw up the science. My ego is all about no one being able to refute my published works. Ever.

mousepad wrote:Sometimes I have to do some yard work.


Me too. I delegate it to the boy.

mousepad wrote: Could you help me describe this big ego style, so I can impress by friends?


Have children and delegate. And I don't do yardwork to impress my friends. Is that all you have, to impress your friends? Can't you do a ventriloquist act with a sock puppet or something?

mousepad wrote: Weed-wacking just doesn't sound that cool. I'm sure you can do better.


Been doing better than weed whacking since grade school. Worked my way up to baling hay by age 10. I think you need to modify your life expectations if your sights are set this low. Shoot for a job at McDonalds perhaps, for starters? Work up from there, give it a lifetime, maybe you can make shift leader?
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Re: THE Gasoline Price Thread Pt. 5

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Tue 27 Oct 2020, 11:33:28

AdamB wrote:
vtsnowedin wrote:python calculations ???? :lol:


In an era of new languages and procedures and intermixed reading and writing into non-integrated systems, I often find myself sitting at the crux of a calculation that I'm not convinced is delivering the answer I thought it was supposed to. I revert to engineering 101 routines, break out some paper, track down all the variables involved, scribble everything out, and make sure that whatever the answer is, is the actual answer.

Gotta start somewhere when modern things seem to mis-fire. I've got pencil, paper, a 35 year old solar calculator and quite a bit of experience with modern computer problems. So sure. I specialize in using relational databases if only because I deal in large amounts of data. Python has come along recently in doing most of the processing, and if nothing else it is easy to read the code and calculations when things short circuit and check it manually.

My mistake. I did not realize Python was a name of a program. I thought you just had a "Dam you auto correct" moment. :oops:
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Re: THE Gasoline Price Thread Pt. 5

Unread postby mousepad » Tue 27 Oct 2020, 11:36:28

AdamB wrote:
mousepad wrote:What an ego! Why don't you just say you hack some code using a language made for people that hardly know shit about computers.


You could simplify it that way if you'd like.


Here we go. No need to impress people on this forum with fluff talk. Keep it simple.

maybe you can make shift leader?

That's good advice, maybe I could be shift leader.
But I'd like to learn fluff talk from you. Can you teach me? It can really take you places, I hear. All the way up to the presidency, I hear.
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Re: THE Gasoline Price Thread Pt. 5

Unread postby AdamB » Tue 27 Oct 2020, 11:50:17

vtsnowedin wrote:My mistake. I did not realize Python was a name of a program. I thought you just had a "Dam you auto correct" moment. :oops:


I didn't realize it either until recently. I took a Fortran course once in college. Was forced into a SAS training course once, a decade ago.
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Re: THE Gasoline Price Thread Pt. 5

Unread postby AdamB » Tue 27 Oct 2020, 11:55:05

mousepad wrote:
maybe you can make shift leader?

That's good advice, maybe I could be shift leader.


You're welcome.

mousepad wrote:But I'd like to learn fluff talk from you. Can you teach me?


Sure. I find the technical writing aspect of science quite....stilted. Internet forums are far more free in terms of style.

mousepad wrote:It can really take you places, I hear.


Technical writing in the sciences takes you places. The internet generally gives you the likes of Alex Jones and parrots like Armie or the real crazies like StarvingPuutyTat.
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Re: THE Gasoline Price Thread Pt. 5

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Tue 27 Oct 2020, 12:06:46

AdamB wrote:
vtsnowedin wrote:My mistake. I did not realize Python was a name of a program. I thought you just had a "Dam you auto correct" moment. :oops:


I didn't realize it either until recently. I took a Fortran course once in college. Was forced into a SAS training course once, a decade ago.
My tech school used Basic on teletypes hooked to the mother computer at Dartmouth. Friends at other schools used Fortran and punch cards but I never had to learn that.
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Re: THE Gasoline Price Thread Pt. 5

Unread postby AdamB » Tue 27 Oct 2020, 12:27:14

vtsnowedin wrote:
AdamB wrote:
vtsnowedin wrote:My mistake. I did not realize Python was a name of a program. I thought you just had a "Dam you auto correct" moment. :oops:


I didn't realize it either until recently. I took a Fortran course once in college. Was forced into a SAS training course once, a decade ago.
My tech school used Basic on teletypes hooked to the mother computer at Dartmouth. Friends at other schools used Fortran and punch cards but I never had to learn that.


I still see Fortran in use today.
StarvingPuutyTat says: I'm so confident in my TOTAL COLLAPSE is IMMINENT prediction that I stake my entire reputation on it. It will happen this year. - Aug 3-2020

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Re: THE Gasoline Price Thread Pt. 5

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Tue 27 Oct 2020, 13:29:55

AdamB wrote:
vtsnowedin wrote:
AdamB wrote:
vtsnowedin wrote:My mistake. I did not realize Python was a name of a program. I thought you just had a "Dam you auto correct" moment. :oops:


I didn't realize it either until recently. I took a Fortran course once in college. Was forced into a SAS training course once, a decade ago.
My tech school used Basic on teletypes hooked to the mother computer at Dartmouth. Friends at other schools used Fortran and punch cards but I never had to learn that.


I still see Fortran in use today.

Yes pretty much the foundation that everything else was built on. Few if any have bothered to start over from scratch.
Not my field though so I quickly moved on to using whatever programs I needed as is and haven't actually written one post 1975 and never wanted to.
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Re: THE Gasoline Price Thread Pt. 5

Unread postby AdamB » Tue 27 Oct 2020, 14:00:33

vtsnowedin wrote:
AdamB wrote:I still see Fortran in use today.

Yes pretty much the foundation that everything else was built on. Few if any have bothered to start over from scratch.
Not my field though so I quickly moved on to using whatever programs I needed as is and haven't actually written one post 1975 and never wanted to.


To me, writing code is nothing more than mathematical instructions in sequence. Math is math, code monkeys can use whatever they find convenient to add up the numbers same as everyone else. You know when you've got one of these monkeys by the tail when they go all particular on how adding up numbers like THIS is better than THAT, and aren't you just stupid for not knowing the difference! Them being irritated that their beloved nuance is irrelevant in the greater scheme of things.
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Re: THE Gasoline Price Thread Pt. 5

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Tue 27 Oct 2020, 15:26:11

Indeed those that like writing code are a strange lot with brains wired up in a different arrangement from the rest of us. :)
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Re: THE Gasoline Price Thread Pt. 5

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Tue 27 Oct 2020, 16:11:41

AdamB wrote:
vtsnowedin wrote:
AdamB wrote:I still see Fortran in use today.

Yes pretty much the foundation that everything else was built on. Few if any have bothered to start over from scratch.
Not my field though so I quickly moved on to using whatever programs I needed as is and haven't actually written one post 1975 and never wanted to.


To me, writing code is nothing more than mathematical instructions in sequence. Math is math, code monkeys can use whatever they find convenient to add up the numbers same as everyone else. You know when you've got one of these monkeys by the tail when they go all particular on how adding up numbers like THIS is better than THAT, and aren't you just stupid for not knowing the difference! Them being irritated that their beloved nuance is irrelevant in the greater scheme of things.

I'll never forget the look of dawning awareness on my father's face at perhaps 75 years old (an old line mechanical engineer who spent much of his career managing mechanical typewriter teams for IBM) after I showed him what a spreadsheet was and had him compute 5*5 in a cell, and said "Congratulations. You just wrote your first computer program.

Things change. One no longer has to use old style procedural programming languages to write programs, much less have a college degree in "Computer Science" as I did, to get LOTS of productivity out of programming, which has been true for decades.

And it's especially ludicrous when people bemoan inefficient programming that comes from high level languages, vs. using Assembler, which I got yelled at a lot for in the 80's, since I preferred GETTING THINGS DONE to saving 3 or 30 bytes of storage or a microsecond of CPU time, given the way computers expand exponentially in processing power and storage per dollar.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: THE Gasoline Price Thread Pt. 5

Unread postby AdamB » Tue 27 Oct 2020, 17:08:07

Outcast_Searcher wrote:Things change. One no longer has to use old style procedural programming languages to write programs, much less have a college degree in "Computer Science" as I did, to get LOTS of productivity out of programming, which has been true for decades.


What does "old style procedural programming languages to write programs" mean? Is that like dbase II, or Visual Basic, FoxPro?

I get plenty of productivity out of automated mathematical instructions as well, not sure I could build stochastic simulators without the automation part.

Outcast_Searcher wrote:And it's especially ludicrous when people bemoan inefficient programming that comes from high level languages, vs. using Assembler, which I got yelled at a lot for in the 80's, since I preferred GETTING THINGS DONE to saving 3 or 30 bytes of storage or a microsecond of CPU time, given the way computers expand exponentially in processing power and storage per dollar.


Yeah, I've seen the contractors get all excited over something running in one microsecond instead of two. Quite important I imagine in the right circumstances. Here is the kicker from my perspective though.

A new idea that takes 5 hours of run time beats old ideas running in a micro-second. My world revolves around the new idea, each and every time. Let the coders clean up run time issues as their own measure of performance, I've got no beef, because until I do my job, theirs is irrelevant.

For the record, my last full scale start to finish new idea was in about 6 sequential pieces, and took 2 days to run, assuming I didn't screw something up along the way. Runs in about 4 minutes how in Python.
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Re: THE Gasoline Price Thread Pt. 5

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Tue 27 Oct 2020, 18:55:55

They can use this as the prototype for a thread going off topic.
But I suppose it does not matter until gas prices change by say fifty cents a gallon up or down. Maybe next May or so?
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Re: THE Gasoline Price Thread Pt. 5

Unread postby AdamB » Tue 27 Oct 2020, 21:33:30

vtsnowedin wrote:They can use this as the prototype for a thread going off topic.
But I suppose it does not matter until gas prices change by say fifty cents a gallon up or down. Maybe next May or so?


Based on current economic conditions and slack demand, easily available crude oil with nothing more than firing up some additional rigs, a pandemic which should be around keeping demand slack for the next half year, it is unlikely that fuel prices are going to change much during that time period.

We've already discovered that peak oil itself was a crock, yet the website survives being completely off topic doesn't appear to be terminal. A little reasonable off topic isn't killer.
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