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THE Finland Thread (merged)

A forum for discussion of regional topics including oil depletion but also government, society, and the future.

Re: Progress on building Finland's new nuclear power plant

Unread postby IslandCrow » Fri 17 Oct 2008, 05:34:30

Yet more delays in the offering:

More delays in sight for Finland's Olkiluoto reactor -Financial Times

17.10.2008 at 9:46

.....The timetable for completing the new generation European Pressurised Reactor (EPR) has already been set back three times from the original 2009. Now, it may be that the reactor will not be taken into use until 2012.

...However, further delays are also sure to bring additional costs to the already inflated budget.
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Re: Progress on building Finland's new nuclear power plant

Unread postby IslandCrow » Tue 04 Nov 2008, 04:09:01

More problems: this time with substandard work by contractors



The Radiation and Nuclear Safety Authority (STUK) has again taken issue with welding work at the construction site of the third reactor at the Olkiluoto nuclear power plant....
STUK stopped the welding work in early September, but at the end of the month it was noticed during an inspection at the machine shop in Gdynia that the work had continued in defiance of the suspension.


If the building work involves taking illegal shortcuts [defined in this case as ignoring instructions from the offical safety authorities], when this is the only plant being built in Europe at the time, what will the standard be when lots of plants need to be built in a hurry?
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Re: Progress on building Finland's new nuclear power plant

Unread postby yesplease » Tue 04 Nov 2008, 06:27:13

That depends on the contractor/situation. France seems to have had pretty good results w/ streamlined permitting and standardized design/construction, but as we can here that isn't always the case. As usual YMMV. :)
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Re: Progress on building Finland's new nuclear power plant

Unread postby IslandCrow » Fri 02 Jan 2009, 07:53:36

Delays mean more legal work

Finnish utility Teollisuuden Voima (TVO) said in a statement Wednesday it had been informed by the International Chamber of Commerce that Franco-German nuclear power station consortium Areva-Siemens had filed an arbitration request over delays and overruns in the Olkiluoto 3 project.


When talking about rapid building of nuclear powerstations France is often reported to be a good example. But please note that one of the main French builders, Areva, is involved in the Finnish project and they are just not able to deliver on time -- This was to be the show case of what could be done in Europe.
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Re: Progress on building Finland's new nuclear power plant

Unread postby yesplease » Fri 02 Jan 2009, 17:17:36

Well, they're dealing w/ y'all, what do you expect. ;)
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Re: Progress on building Finland's new nuclear power plant

Unread postby Zero-point » Sat 03 Jan 2009, 12:06:31

http://thoriumenergy.blogspot.com/2009/01/or-immediate-release-thorium-for.html
Thursday, January 01, 2009
Thorium Reactor for Finland?

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE :
Thorium for Finland's 6th reactor ?

Memo on thorium Molten Salt Reactor filed with the Finnish Government

On Dec31th 2008 a group of three Nordic companies submitted a memo to the Finnish Ministry of Employment and The Economy on the subject of Finland's 6th nuclear reactor.

PowerThe Home Oy, based in Helsinki, Thorium ElectroNuclear AB in Stockholm, and Achieveperformance AS in Oslo propose to build a Molten Salt Reactor (MSR) running on fluid thorium fuel.

"The memo aims to inform Finnish decison makers on the uniquely superior properties of MSR technology for future production and distribution of energy " says Dr Mika Karilahti, chairman of PowerTheHome Oy.

"MSR systems are not common knowledge in the industry community. R&D have not been promoted for the last 20 years" says Elling Disen, founder of Thorium ElectroNuclear AB.

Nuclear energy is currently experiencing a revival.

Nuclear reactors are evaluated on the performance on five key parameters : waste, safeguards, economy, fuel efficiency and sustainability. "Thorium MSR technology vastly outperforms anything else" Elling Disen says.

Stakeholders should particulary appreciate the fact that spent nuclear fuel in temporary storage would be incinerated in the MSR. In particular, waste reuse removes the unsolved issue of copper corrosion from planned geological storage. A closed fuel cycle, true energy independence in the long term, minimal environmental footprint and low cost are also very desirable properties.

Nordic collaboration

Elling Disen says that a Nordic collaboration adds to the favorable prospect of MSR solutions. "Norway has 2 million tons of Thorium, enough to power the Nordic region for thousand of years."

Building a 1500 MW MSR plant would probably take 5-8 years and cost 1.8 billion €.

The memo should not be confused for a full formal bid for Finland's 6th reactor.

Filing of this memo was discussed with Mr Riku Huttunen with the Finnish Ministry of Employment and The Economy.


2009-01-01

For further information, contact :

Mika Karilahti, chairman PowerTheHome Oy

PowerTheHome Oy provides local energy solutions.

+358 (0)40 5487656, [email protected]


Elling Disen, founder Thorium ElectroNuclear AB

Thorium ElectroNuclear AB has exclusive IP rights for thorium MSR technology.

+ 46 (0)70 8968715, [email protected]

Hans Henrik Holven, chairman Achieveperformance AS

Achieveperformance AS delivers digital pen and document systems.

+ 47 93448132, [email protected]

posted by Charles Barton at 1/01/2009 07:19:00 PM
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Thorium Reactor for Finland?

Unread postby Zero-point » Sat 03 Jan 2009, 13:25:41

Thorium Reactor for Finland? Thursday, January 01, 2009:
Thorium for Finland's 6th reactor ?
Memo on thorium Molten Salt Reactor filed with the Finnish Government. On Dec31th 2008 a group of three Nordic companies submitted a memo to the Finnish Ministry of Employment and The Economy on the subject of Finland's 6th nuclear reactor.

PowerThe Home Oy, based in Helsinki, Thorium ElectroNuclear AB in Stockholm, and Achieveperformance AS in Oslo propose to build a Molten Salt Reactor (MSR) running on fluid thorium fuel. "The memo aims to inform Finnish decison makers on the uniquely superior properties of MSR technology for future production and distribution of energy " says Dr Mika Karilahti, chairman of PowerTheHome Oy.

"MSR systems are not common knowledge in the industry community. R&D have not been promoted for the last 20 years" says Elling Disen, founder of Thorium ElectroNuclear AB.

Nuclear energy is currently experiencing a revival: Nuclear reactors are evaluated on the performance on five key parameters : waste, safeguards, economy, fuel efficiency and sustainability. "Thorium MSR technology vastly outperforms anything else" Elling Disen says.

Stakeholders should particulary appreciate the fact that spent nuclear fuel in temporary storage would be incinerated in the MSR. In particular, waste reuse removes the unsolved issue of copper corrosion from planned geological storage. A closed fuel cycle, true energy independence in the long term, minimal environmental footprint and low cost are also very desirable properties.

Nordic collaboration: Elling Disen says that a Nordic collaboration adds to the favorable prospect of MSR solutions. "Norway has 2 million tons of Thorium, enough to power the Nordic region for thousand of years."

Building a 1500 MW MSR plant would probably take 5-8 years and cost 1.8 billion €. The memo should not be confused for a full formal bid for Finland's 6th reactor. Filing of this memo was discussed with Mr Riku Huttunen with the Finnish Ministry of Employment and The Economy.

2009-01-01 For further information, contact : Mika Karilahti, chairman PowerTheHome Oy
PowerTheHome Oy provides local energy solutions.

+358 (0)40 5487656, [email protected]


Elling Disen, founder Thorium ElectroNuclear AB

Thorium ElectroNuclear AB has exclusive IP rights for thorium MSR technology.

+ 46 (0)70 8968715, [email protected]

Hans Henrik Holven, chairman Achieveperformance AS

Achieveperformance AS delivers digital pen and document systems.

+ 47 93448132, [email protected]


posted by Charles Barton at 1/01/2009 07:19:00 PM
Last edited by Ferretlover on Mon 09 Mar 2009, 16:29:40, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Merged with THE Finland Thread.
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Re: Thorium Reactor for Finland?

Unread postby mos6507 » Sat 03 Jan 2009, 14:40:15

If they approve this, I want to move to Finland :)
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Re: Thorium Reactor for Finland?

Unread postby frankthetank » Sat 03 Jan 2009, 19:50:48

Mos-

Before i read your comment, that was EXACTLY what i was going to say. Go Finland!
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Re: Thorium Reactor for Finland?

Unread postby outcast » Sat 03 Jan 2009, 20:24:01

But wait, isn't tech advancement not supposed to be happening? Aren't we supposed to be doomed? :P
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Re: Thorium Reactor for Finland?

Unread postby cloudysky » Sun 04 Jan 2009, 13:00:06

No difference between thorium and uranium, they both split heavy elements and make lots of bad by products, estimate thorium level on lanet is about same as uranium

But, Thorium is much messier to handle and deal with it is highly readioactive from the get go, uranium is not. Much more expensive to handle it and its by products.

Moving to finland because they have a Thorium reactor is like saying you should move to California because they have a uranium reactor. Just goofball statements.

The reason we do not have Thorium reacotrs here is:
1. More radiactive
2. More expensive to run
3. More toxic products.
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Re: Thorium Reactor for Finland?

Unread postby Zero-point » Sun 04 Jan 2009, 13:14:59

cloudysky wrote:No difference between thorium and uranium, they both split heavy elements and make lots of bad by products, estimate thorium level on lanet is about same as uranium
But, Thorium is much messier to handle and deal with it is highly readioactive from the get go, uranium is not. Much more expensive to handle it and its by products.
Moving to finland because they have a Thorium reactor is like saying you should move to California because they have a uranium reactor. Just goofball statements.
The reason we do not have Thorium reacotrs here is:
1. More radiactive
2. More expensive to run
3. More toxic products.

Your scientific knowledge is astounding - astoundingly ignorant. Everything you said is incorrect.
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Re: Thorium Reactor for Finland?

Unread postby Tanada » Sun 04 Jan 2009, 13:22:25

cloudysky wrote:No difference between thorium and uranium, they both split heavy elements and make lots of bad by products, estimate thorium level on lanet is about same as uranium

Incorrect, Thorium is three times as abundant as Uranium.
But, Thorium is much messier to handle and deal with it is highly readioactive from the get go, uranium is not.

Incorrect, the half life of U-238 is 4.5 Billion years while Th-232 is 14.1 Billion years, nearly three times as long.
Much more expensive to handle it and its by products.

Incorrect, Thorium is so inexpensive and easy to handle it is used for lantern mantles for camping equipment, not to mention its common ore Monazite sand makes up a lot a beach front property in both India and Brazil.
Moving to finland because they have a Thorium reactor is like saying you should move to California because they have a uranium reactor. Just goofball statements.

Is this your way of telling us you live in California?
The reason we do not have Thorium reacotrs here is:
1. More radiactive
2. More expensive to run
3. More toxic products.

Incorrect three for three, that gives you a perfect record rarely seen on this forum. Congratulations!
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Re: Thorium Reactor for Finland?

Unread postby mos6507 » Sun 04 Jan 2009, 15:24:38

Thorium breeder reactors are THE ONLY promising replacement to fossil fuels, if they live up to the hype. The only way this will catch on is if we start to see some actual reactors built and the rest of the world can compare their results to the existing light water reactors.
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Re: Thorium Reactor for Finland?

Unread postby outcast » Sun 04 Jan 2009, 20:39:42

mos6507 wrote:Thorium breeder reactors are THE ONLY promising replacement to fossil fuels, if they live up to the hype. The only way this will catch on is if we start to see some actual reactors built and the rest of the world can compare their results to the existing light water reactors.

How is it the only replacement for coal and natural gas?
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Re: Thorium Reactor for Finland?

Unread postby cloudysky » Sun 04 Jan 2009, 20:56:32

Where did the dam thorium shills come from? Thorium is a joke like ethanol, what you guys work for haliburton or something?

Thorium, as well as uranium and plutonium, can be used as fuel in a nuclear reactor. Although not fissile itself, 232Th will absorb slow neutrons to produce 233U, which is fissile. Hence, like 238U, it is fertile.

Problems include the high cost of fuel fabrication due partly to the high radioactivity of 233U which is a result of its contamination with traces of the short-lived 232U; the similar problems in recycling thorium due to highly radioactive 228Th; some weapons proliferation risk of 233U; and the technical problems (not yet satisfactorily solved) in reprocessing. Much development work is still required before the thorium fuel cycle can be commercialised, and the effort required seems unlikely while (or where) abundant uranium is available.

BS and a big waste of money.
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Re: Thorium Reactor for Finland?

Unread postby cloudysky » Sun 04 Jan 2009, 20:57:39

You turn around for a second and another bunch of Barnum and Baileys come into town selling 5 dollar hot dogs.
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Re: Thorium Reactor for Finland?

Unread postby mos6507 » Sun 04 Jan 2009, 21:00:29

outcast wrote:How is it the only replacement for coal and natural gas?

You have any other likely candidates?
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Re: Thorium Reactor for Finland?

Unread postby mos6507 » Sun 04 Jan 2009, 21:01:27

cloudysky wrote:BS and a big waste of money.

It's more promising than fusion.
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Re: Thorium Reactor for Finland?

Unread postby outcast » Sun 04 Jan 2009, 21:20:41

mos6507 wrote:
outcast wrote:How is it the only replacement for coal and natural gas?
You have any other likely candidates?

Even more traditional uranium based nukes can do it. Page 92 of the uranium supply thread pointed out that we have generations and generations of uranium.
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