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The Financial System is Destroying the World Economy

Discussions about the economic and financial ramifications of PEAK OIL

Re: The Financial System is Destroying the World Economy

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Fri 27 Jul 2018, 12:29:03

KaiserJeep wrote:Consider that a reasonable case can be made that Trump is the most effective POTUS since FDR.

Reasonable case?

For economic growth, he might get it IF growth continues to accelerate.

But there's a lot more to being POTUS than the economy.

Unless you think things like dismantling a lot of the environmental protection regulations, etc. are somehow a great thing -- you need to make a case, point by point.

By all means, make your case. "Reasonable" isn't a word which leaps to mind to me for such a claim.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: The Financial System is Destroying the World Economy

Unread postby Cog » Fri 27 Jul 2018, 12:32:55

Sorry your girl lost outcast, so we couldn't have another recession. Doomers hate good economic news.

You doomers and Dems were predicting if trump got elected we would be in a depression. How do those ashes taste?
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Re: The Financial System is Destroying the World Economy

Unread postby GHung » Fri 27 Jul 2018, 12:39:53

Outcast_Searcher wrote:
KaiserJeep wrote:Consider that a reasonable case can be made that Trump is the most effective POTUS since FDR.

Reasonable case?

For economic growth, he might get it IF growth continues to accelerate.

But there's a lot more to being POTUS than the economy.

Unless you think things like dismantling a lot of the environmental protection regulations, etc. are somehow a great thing -- you need to make a case, point by point.

By all means, make your case. "Reasonable" isn't a word which leaps to mind to me for such a claim.


Much of that economic 'improvement' is due to cutting taxes while increasing the debt. Robbing Peter (the future) to pay Paul (short-term gain) is exactly what our government has done for decades. Trump is just taking it to new levels. Not what I call "effective", all things considered.

White House press aides are claiming President Donald Trump’s budget contains trillions in “deficit reduction,” when it actually calls for larger deficits for the next several years and would add $7 trillion to the national debt over 10 years.

Let’s start with what the president actually proposed. Page 117 of the White House budget released Feb. 12 contains the “Budget Totals” summary, including the proposed annual deficits (which we have highlighted). It shows a deficit growing from $665 billion last fiscal year to $873 billion in the current fiscal year (which began Oct. 1), and from there to $984 billion next fiscal year, and $987 billion the year after. It shows a total of just under $7.1 trillion in cumulative annual deficits over 10 years .....
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https://www.factcheck.org/2018/02/trump ... reduction/
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Re: The Financial System is Destroying the World Economy

Unread postby Cog » Fri 27 Jul 2018, 12:44:11

I see GHung got his talking points from cnn as to why gdp growth isn't real. Good job man.
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Re: The Financial System is Destroying the World Economy

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Fri 27 Jul 2018, 13:10:41

Cog wrote:Sorry your girl lost outcast, so we couldn't have another recession. Doomers hate good economic news.

You doomers and Dems were predicting if trump got elected we would be in a depression. How do those ashes taste?

All rationality going out the window again?

So now I'm a doomer , a dem, and voted for HRC again? :roll:

When you get like this, is ANYONE supposed to take you seriously? :?
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: The Financial System is Destroying the World Economy

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Fri 27 Jul 2018, 13:13:41

Cog wrote:I see GHung got his talking points from cnn as to why gdp growth isn't real. Good job man.

It's real. But it comes at a huge cost. Or are you one of those "deficits don't matter unless a democrat is at the helm" sorts, because that's not credible either.

Do you want to just throw out labels, or make a meaningful argument?
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: The Financial System is Destroying the World Economy

Unread postby GHung » Fri 27 Jul 2018, 13:16:07

Cog wrote:I see GHung got his talking points from cnn as to why gdp growth isn't real. Good job man.


Utterly dumb response there. Coggoid. Good job man.
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Re: The Financial System is Destroying the World Economy

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Fri 27 Jul 2018, 13:50:16

GHung wrote:
KaiserJeep wrote:...........
But consider the alternatives. Bubba Clinton looked you straight in the eye and told lies you wanted to hear and believe. .........


Why did you call him "Bubba"? Because of his accent? Because he's a Southerner?
Just askin'.....


No, I did that because he was nick-named "Bubba" during his terms as Arkansas governor. Which I knew because my Mother grew up in that state and a bunch of my cousins still live there.

Hey, the Governator, aka "Ahnold", was here in California, and Jesse Ventura was somewhere in between him and Bubba, and we would often be found speculating in bars about whose governor could beat the snot out of the other, or the POTUS.
Last edited by KaiserJeep on Fri 27 Jul 2018, 13:53:52, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Financial System is Destroying the World Economy

Unread postby Pops » Fri 27 Jul 2018, 13:51:51

KaiserJeep wrote:a sly grin to tell you he is lying.

Man it is beyond me how that is appealing except in a make libs cry, lol.

As for effective, the SCOTUS pick got him elected, not vice versa. The tax bill is just the same R 1% policy as ever. Ditto repealing anything named Obama. Foreign policy effective? Anyway we have a different view.

On the false equivalency front, my view is there is an order of magnitude in the number and nature of trumps lies and past presidents and in fact the entire GOP seems off the rails. But it would not matter how many examples I trot out neither of us will change views there either, so I won't.


Back sorta on topic, the nature of a republic makes it susceptible to influence money, few politicians are totally immune. The FIRE economy on which the US is increasingly dependent is especially reliant on a favorable government because there really are no "rational" actors regardless of what the economists pontificate. There are people who buy influence and the laws that allow them to speculate and lay off risk and to take advantage of none-too-savy "customers." Of course there are people who believe themselves above risk or whose little cons are below suspicion.
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Re: The Financial System is Destroying the World Economy

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Fri 27 Jul 2018, 13:57:22

Pops, there is even a name for it,TDS. TDS = Trump Derangement Syndrome. Because all pols lie, but only when their lips move.
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Re: The Financial System is Destroying the World Economy

Unread postby onlooker » Tue 24 Dec 2019, 14:29:02

https://www.redpepper.org.uk/vampire-fi ... e-economy/


Vampire finance sucks the lifeblood out of the economy
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Re: The Financial System is Destroying the World Economy

Unread postby shortonoil » Tue 24 Dec 2019, 20:01:29

onlooker said: back on page 1
Western economies have been financialized in a predatory way that sacrifices the public interest to the financial sector. That is why the economy no longer works for ordinary people. Finance is no longer productive. It has become a parasite on the economy


Now let's get this straight? Are you implying that $300 trillion in debt is not good for the economy? Who could'f node! It is like bleeding a patient; you have to do it until they are cured. After burial they are assumed to be all better.
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Re: The Financial System is Destroying the World Economy

Unread postby onlooker » Tue 24 Dec 2019, 21:08:42

shortonoil wrote:
onlooker said: back on page 1
Western economies have been financialized in a predatory way that sacrifices the public interest to the financial sector. That is why the economy no longer works for ordinary people. Finance is no longer productive. It has become a parasite on the economy


Now let's get this straight? Are you implying that $300 trillion in debt is not good for the economy? Who could'f node! It is like bleeding a patient; you have to do it until they are cured. After burial they are assumed to be all better.


:lol: :lol:
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Re: The Financial System is Destroying the World Economy

Unread postby asg70 » Tue 24 Dec 2019, 21:38:32

onlooker wrote:https://www.redpepper.org.uk/vampire-finance-sucks-the-lifeblood-out-of-the-economy/
Vampire finance sucks the lifeblood out of the economy


Nice rag. No ideological biases that I can see. Oh wait.

Image

You're picking cherries again, onlooker.

Image

BOLD PREDICTIONS
-Billions are on the verge of starvation as the lockdown continues. (yoshua, 5/20/20)

HALL OF SHAME:
-Short welched on a bet and should be shunned.
-Frequent-flyers should not cry crocodile-tears over climate-change.
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Re: The Financial System is Destroying the World Economy

Unread postby onlooker » Tue 24 Dec 2019, 22:26:42

asg70 wrote:
onlooker wrote:https://www.redpepper.org.uk/vampire-finance-sucks-the-lifeblood-out-of-the-economy/
Vampire finance sucks the lifeblood out of the economy


Nice rag. No ideological biases that I can see. Oh wait.

Image

You're picking cherries again, onlooker.

Image


Yeah, better just rely on the lying MSM :razz: :razz:
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Re: The Financial System is Destroying the World Economy

Unread postby onlooker » Tue 24 Dec 2019, 23:06:30

Asg:

"Mainstream media lying by omission or commission is a major reality throughout the World."

https://sites.google.com/site/mainstreammedialying/
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Re: The Financial System is Destroying the World Economy

Unread postby asg70 » Fri 27 Dec 2019, 22:45:59

onlooker wrote:Asg:

"Mainstream media lying by omission or commission is a major reality throughout the World."

https://sites.google.com/site/mainstreammedialying/


OMG. Someone published a webpage on the internet says the msm is lying. Such an appeal to authority! I mean, this guy's got plenty of credibility, what with his 911 trootherism and what not.

BOLD PREDICTIONS
-Billions are on the verge of starvation as the lockdown continues. (yoshua, 5/20/20)

HALL OF SHAME:
-Short welched on a bet and should be shunned.
-Frequent-flyers should not cry crocodile-tears over climate-change.
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Re: The Financial System is Destroying the World Economy

Unread postby jedrider » Sat 28 Dec 2019, 00:57:15

Real Estate prices are going through the roof in California. But, why? Is the 'real' economy booming, or is it just the 'financialized' economy that is booming?

American Cities Are Becoming Shell Companies for the Rich
https://www.truthdig.com/articles/american-cities-are-becoming-shell-companies-for-the-rich/

We don't have a 'housing' shortage, but we do have an 'accounting' problem: As the wealthy get more money, they are hedging it's value by buying up property, which just happens to also inflate property values. That is my observation (I haven't read the article, but it seems to indicate the same).
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Re: The Financial System is Destroying the World Economy

Unread postby sparky » Sat 28 Dec 2019, 11:26:48

.
the new kid on the block is "Modern monetary Theory "
espoused by some democratic candidates this postulate than making money out of thin air is OK
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/01/bernie- ... -race.html


what could go wrong !!!
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Re: The Financial System is Destroying the World Economy

Unread postby evilgenius » Sat 28 Dec 2019, 11:44:30

jedrider wrote:Real Estate prices are going through the roof in California. But, why? Is the 'real' economy booming, or is it just the 'financialized' economy that is booming?

American Cities Are Becoming Shell Companies for the Rich
https://www.truthdig.com/articles/american-cities-are-becoming-shell-companies-for-the-rich/

We don't have a 'housing' shortage, but we do have an 'accounting' problem: As the wealthy get more money, they are hedging it's value by buying up property, which just happens to also inflate property values. That is my observation (I haven't read the article, but it seems to indicate the same).


I like how you state that. Trump's policies simply have a shorter path from those to whom the money is given to the markets. But by saying this you raise a whole other issue. The place of executives in a stock run up shouldn't be as perceptible as it is. Currently, there is a doctrine running, passed down from Milton Friedman, of returning value to shareholders. Executives use it in order to justify their personal stake in their own companies. But how much of a company's capitalization ought to derive itself from executive performance versus how much of it from executives enacting policy decisions derived from ownership's input? There is a difference. One can be used to regulate an economy, to more equally distribute wealth, while the other seems destined to destroy it. The executive argument has gotten somewhat out of hand, and it has hurt employee compensation in the process. This has had a contracting influence upon the economy, as regular people have both had to scale back on their dreams and to comply by participating in various economic universes which have popped up organically from out of the situation.
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