[Cog]

Don't worry comrades we will get communism right this time. Shouldn't require more than a few more 100 million killed to prove our case.

[Newfie]

Cog, you are trolling again. No one mentioned communisim. We are more talking about human nature.

[onlooker]

Cog, you are trolling again. No one mentioned communisim. We are more talking about human nature.

I think my anti Capitalism comment triggered him

[Cog]

Cog, you are trolling again. No one mentioned communisim. We are more talking about human nature.

I think my anti Capitalism comment triggered him

When all I see are complaints about capitalism from the same people who have so richly benefitted from it(That means anyone on this board), then I see an advocacy for communism/socialism.

This board swings hard left and there is little point in denying this.

The goal of socialism is communism.---Vladimir Lenin

[jedrider]

Collapse for capitalist systems is inevitable for two reasons: the need to profit, and to maximize that in light of competition, eventually leads to increasing amounts of credit created and running after limited resources, of which exploitation is also maximized. The result is a combination of economic instability due to rising debt coupled with a resource crunch, with financial speculation only making matters worse.

The second reason involves pollution created as resources are used, and which increases as more people worldwide need and want to use more resources, leading to ecological collapse and the effects of global warming.

Anything unchecked by some form of negative feedback will run it's course and burn itself out eventually. It's making an unchallenged religion out of it that is a problem. In the end, the system is always able to be gamed by some group, and which group wielding the most leverage but the bankers that are able to most successfully game the system.

Money debt is not an intrinsic problem. However, it is certainly an accounting problem.

Debt to the environment is a REAL problem, however.

[onlooker]

All these variables accounted for in the seminal limits to growth study of the 1970's. They understood one way or the other growth would and had to end. And when it ends so will Capitalism that depends on a steady stream of economic throughput to function

[Newfie]

Cog, you are trolling again. No one mentioned communisim. We are more talking about human nature.

I think my anti Capitalism comment triggered him

When all I see are complaints about capitalism from the same people who have so richly benefitted from it(That means anyone on this board), then I see an advocacy for communism/socialism.

This board swings hard left and there is little point in denying this.

The goal of socialism is communism.---Vladimir Lenin

One mans viewpoint Cog. I don’t see it that way at all. There is a whole range of alternatives.

[Newfie]

I came across this interview. It could go in a lot of places but I thought it fit best here.

“Hypnotic Mass Phenomena”
Interview of the Week: Peter Thiel

Peter Thiel is one of Silicon Valley’s bigger-than-life characters. Now he is leaving the epicenter of the tech industry. A conversation on human herd behavior, successful investment, Donald Trump’s genius, homosexuality and death.

“Hypnotic Mass Phenomena”
Interview of the Week: Peter Thiel

Peter Thiel is one of Silicon Valley’s bigger-than-life characters. Now he is leaving the epicenter of the tech industry. A conversation on human herd behavior, successful investment, Donald Trump’s genius, homosexuality and death.

Interview of the Week: Peter Thiel
“Hypnotic Mass Phenomena”
Peter Thiel is one of Silicon Valley’s bigger-than-life characters. Now he is leaving the epicenter of the tech industry. A conversation on human herd behavior, successful investment, Donald Trump’s genius, homosexuality and death.

https://www.weltwoche.ch/ausgaben/2018- ... -2018.html

[ralfy]

I think the points raised so far that are critical of capitalism does not have to do with advocating Communism but with common sense.

[Newfie]

Or with Capitalisims inability to sustain one production level, to resist ever expanding growth.

[evilgenius]

The Peter Thiel interview was interesting. I liked what he said about the wisdom of crowds becoming the madness of crowds. It makes perfect sense. Mostly, it happens when what the crowd is producing is used to answer the wrong question. Crowds consist of individuals making decisions concerning their survival. This is done by a lot of people who might like to see the order around them changed, but not everybody wants the same alternative order. What they do is all engage in the same activity in a effort to survive, not to build a new future. Some people want an order that places them on top. Some people want justice. Some want anarchy. Further, some want to fully engage while others partially. And there are a whole lot of other differences. The mix changes and, along with it, the dominant measures for survival. But you can't project what works for survival upon design. Design takes into account what a whole package needs in order to fulfill its purpose. Survival is a moment by moment decision. Some people really would eat their own flesh if they thought they had to. If they will do that, then imagine what they will do to their loved ones, or those in society who they care less about. The temptation must be great.

You know, this alone is an interesting point. It's essentially the temptation Jesus faced in the wilderness after He was baptized by John. Turning stones into bread is a metaphor for turning a story into something you can make food from. That's not far from believing the lies about other people, government or the world order that conspiracy theorists put out there merely because you are starved of what you need on a daily basis. He was also asked to worship what was not worthy of worship, both in himself and in Satan. All against the backdrop of Him starving himself, eating his own flesh.

[Zarquon]

Now that you mention Jeez, here's a renowned scholar (Harvard economist, PhD in Chicago, worked for big Wall Street banks, then turned to economic archaeology) who says that essentially, the Bible as well as Mosaic law is mostly about debt, not sin (which, in most languages, is the same word). More specifically, it's about the importance of forgiving debt. And it's all for practical reasons, because the ancients thought that without wiping the slate clean - literally - they'd all become slaves to their creditors sooner or later, and society would go to the dogs. Well, it's a little more complicated than that, but read for yourself:

http://michael-hudson.com/2018/04/bronze-age-redux/

There's a lot more interesting stuff there, relevant to this thread.

[Cog]

Did the bank force you to sign the loan agreement? Sounds more like you support trying to slide out on a legal obligation. Banks are an essential part of a modern economy.

Why should anyone loan you money, when your clear inclination is to dodge what you owe? You remind me of a sister of mine and not in a good way.

[Newfie]

Now that you mention Jeez, here's a renowned scholar (Harvard economist, PhD in Chicago, worked for big Wall Street banks, then turned to economic archaeology) who says that essentially, the Bible as well as Mosaic law is mostly about debt, not sin (which, in most languages, is the same word). More specifically, it's about the importance of forgiving debt. And it's all for practical reasons, because the ancients thought that without wiping the slate clean - literally - they'd all become slaves to their creditors sooner or later, and society would go to the dogs. Well, it's a little more complicated than that, but read for yourself:

http://michael-hudson.com/2018/04/bronze-age-redux/

There's a lot more interesting stuff there, relevant to this thread.

Fascinating read! Thanks for that.

Not that I understand or agree with all he said but it sure gets you thinking.

It sure does bring the Bible into conflict with modern capitalism.

[Cog]

Because the idea is retarded. No one would lend money if they were going to lose money on the contract. You think I would lend you money if you are going to default on it? Don't be ridiculous. Don't want to borrow money at the terms listed, then don't. Save money for 20 years and then buy a house free and clear.

No business would be able to borrow money to start up a business, no business would be able to borrow money to expand. I know the left loves free stuff but come one. More entitlement mentality at play here. You don't deserve a free house, free education, or anything else free. Work for it, pay your debts, and live the American dream. Or don't.

Or better yet, set up your own bank and lend money at the terms that every seven years people are going to not pay you back. Report back on how it works out for you.

[Cog]

You want to deliberately crash the economic system impoverishing millions and I'm supposed to think deeply about that? How about no?

I stand by my position that people who want to bring on doom are nothing but a death cult.

[GHung]

You want to deliberately crash the economic system impoverishing millions and I'm supposed to think deeply about that? How about no?

I stand by my position that people who want to bring on doom are nothing but a death cult.

....and I stand by my position that those who believe continued growth, resource depletion and eco-system degradation can continue without ever-more severe consequences are an extinction-level-event-death-cult. One of us has more than enough evidence to prove it. ....

.... and Cog really wants us to believe he cares about any of those poor starving people? Considering his utterly self-serving nature, as displayed by years of his comments, Cog just fears his stock portfolio crashing. He needs an ever-growing base of poor consumers to support his entitled lifestyle. Nothing more there.