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THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Discussions of conventional and alternative energy production technologies.

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby Plantagenet » Thu 25 Jul 2019, 18:13:00

Outcast_Searcher wrote:I'd just want to be able to fit in with traffic up to, say, 60 mph, minimum, to feel safe on various roadways.


OH, exactly right.

I was in the Harley Outpost to look at the new Honda "monkey" motorcycle. Its a small fun motorcycle for tooling around on the back roads but top speed is about 55 or so.....i.e. not fast enough to be safe on the highways.

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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby asg70 » Fri 02 Aug 2019, 22:04:16

Well, after over 3 months of ownership I found myself in a position to try fast-DC charging for the first time at a local mall. It was built by evGo but looks like it was rebranded by Electrify America. There were two stalls next to what looked like a slower level-2 destination charger. The stalls were very narrow because it looked like they just wedged the machines inbetween regular parking spaces. This made it very hard to get in. They were staggered so that one stall was on either end of the space. They both had two cords, one for CCS and one for CHAdeMO. The problem is on one stall the CCS plug was damaged. The design of CCS is it's like two plugs stacked on top of each other. I don't know what someone did but the bottom DC ports were bent almost like someone tried to jam it into an AC-only jack that didn't provide spacing for the DC portion. I managed to charge off the other stall but when I installed the evGo app and looked at the status info for both stalls, it said the CHAdeMO was broken on the other one. In summary, one stall had a broken CCS and one stall had a broken CHAdeMO. Not an impressive sight to see for something that I wouldn't expect to have been used that heavily yet with EVs still fairly uncommon. I did some research and the stalls were put there in 2015. Not that old to be breaking down like this. The touchscreens looked fine but the inlet jacks are what needs some serious durability improvements.

HALL OF SHAME:
-Short welched on a bet and should be shunned.
-Frequent-flyers should not cry crocodile-tears over climate-change.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby Tanada » Sat 03 Aug 2019, 09:24:46

asg70 wrote:Well, after over 3 months of ownership I found myself in a position to try fast-DC charging for the first time at a local mall. It was built by evGo but looks like it was rebranded by Electrify America. There were two stalls next to what looked like a slower level-2 destination charger. The stalls were very narrow because it looked like they just wedged the machines inbetween regular parking spaces. This made it very hard to get in. They were staggered so that one stall was on either end of the space. They both had two cords, one for CCS and one for CHAdeMO. The problem is on one stall the CCS plug was damaged. The design of CCS is it's like two plugs stacked on top of each other. I don't know what someone did but the bottom DC ports were bent almost like someone tried to jam it into an AC-only jack that didn't provide spacing for the DC portion. I managed to charge off the other stall but when I installed the evGo app and looked at the status info for both stalls, it said the CHAdeMO was broken on the other one. In summary, one stall had a broken CCS and one stall had a broken CHAdeMO. Not an impressive sight to see for something that I wouldn't expect to have been used that heavily yet with EVs still fairly uncommon. I did some research and the stalls were put there in 2015. Not that old to be breaking down like this. The touchscreens looked fine but the inlet jacks are what needs some serious durability improvements.


That sounds more like vandalism than normal wear and tear. I think this will be a significant problem as time goes on when angry people attack unguarded infrastructure like EV charging stations that are conveniently at hand in arms reach.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby asg70 » Sat 03 Aug 2019, 11:52:23

I used to play arcade games and can attest that anything in public that is mechanical is going to get beaten down rather quickly and requires regular maintenance. So I don't think it has to be a case of vandalism. It could just be manhandling or improper usage (plus exposure to the outside elements, especially UV which degrades plastic). That being said it would probably be a good idea to install motion-activated cameras to catch/deter potential vandals. Also, these charging stations are sort of at the Cambrian explosion stage. There's countless designs and specs and some will turn out to be more reliable than others. Hopefully over time they figure out the best way to build these things that is proven to last.

HALL OF SHAME:
-Short welched on a bet and should be shunned.
-Frequent-flyers should not cry crocodile-tears over climate-change.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Sat 03 Aug 2019, 14:31:37

asg70 wrote:The stalls were very narrow because it looked like they just wedged the machines inbetween regular parking spaces. This made it very hard to get in. They were staggered so that one stall was on either end of the space. They both had two cords, one for CCS and one for CHAdeMO. The problem is on one stall the CCS plug was damaged. The design of CCS is it's like two plugs stacked on top of each other. I don't know what someone did but the bottom DC ports were bent almost like someone tried to jam it into an AC-only jack that didn't provide spacing for the DC portion. I managed to charge off the other stall but when I installed the evGo app and looked at the status info for both stalls, it said the CHAdeMO was broken on the other one. In summary, one stall had a broken CCS and one stall had a broken CHAdeMO.

IMO, if people are going to be charging money to use such stalls, they had better do a decent job of maintenance, and had better make them reasonably easy to use, include fitting one's car into.

Otherwise, it will be just like bad gas stations with poor equipment -- people will go elsewhere. (In my city, too many shell station owners are letting their pumps get old and are maintaining them poorly. Why should I put up with that as a customer? It's not like they sell their gas 20 cents cheaper per gallon (or even 1 cent) to compensate.

And re the parts, given how people handle things in public spaces, buying the more heavy duty / durable parts will no doubt pay for itself, so I would imagine vendors will learn that over time.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Sat 03 Aug 2019, 14:33:38

Tanada wrote:That sounds more like vandalism than normal wear and tear. I think this will be a significant problem as time goes on when angry people attack unguarded infrastructure like EV charging stations that are conveniently at hand in arms reach.

So is this angry people who don't like EV's? If the equipment isn't durable, people are just generally careless with other peoples' property, so there's that.

What puzzles me is when the owner/manager sees no charging going on re the broken plug part, why in the hell not investigate that? And if it's broken, fix it?

Little wonder so many young businesses fail with the bad planning and bad management that goes into a large proportion of such ventures.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby asg70 » Sat 03 Aug 2019, 17:59:09

It's kind of passive income sort of like being a landlord or owning a laundromat. The less maintenance you do the greater your ROI, so they try to push it as far as they can before lifting a finger.

HALL OF SHAME:
-Short welched on a bet and should be shunned.
-Frequent-flyers should not cry crocodile-tears over climate-change.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Sat 03 Aug 2019, 18:11:45

asg70 wrote:It's kind of passive income sort of like being a landlord or owning a laundromat. The less maintenance you do the greater your ROI, so they try to push it as far as they can before lifting a finger.

Ah. Short term thinking. Got it.

Greater ROI in the short term -- possibly. In the longer term, having a good reliable business with return customers, many of whom won't even be real picky about the price due to reliability -- should be worth a LOT. But you just don't see so much of that anymore. Maybe things change too fast to make it seem worth it to most businesses, especially large ones?

I'll cite Amazon, as a possible exception. Seems to be working well for them so far -- will be interesting to see how long they keep it up. Maybe only as long as Bezos thinks it leads to the most profits.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby Tanada » Mon 05 Aug 2019, 08:57:07

Outcast_Searcher wrote:
Tanada wrote:That sounds more like vandalism than normal wear and tear. I think this will be a significant problem as time goes on when angry people attack unguarded infrastructure like EV charging stations that are conveniently at hand in arms reach.

So is this angry people who don't like EV's? If the equipment isn't durable, people are just generally careless with other peoples' property, so there's that.

What puzzles me is when the owner/manager sees no charging going on re the broken plug part, why in the hell not investigate that? And if it's broken, fix it?

Little wonder so many young businesses fail with the bad planning and bad management that goes into a large proportion of such ventures.

I call it a general anger that life today is not going they want it to go today and lashing out at inanimate objects is safer than attacking other people, and gives the vandals a feeling of control over something in their life.

It doesn't have to make a lot of sense but I have discovered much to my dismay that a lot of people abuse the commons simply because they can. It can be anything from throwing their trash on the ground five feet from the garbage can to carving their initials in the bus stop to a wide range of other 'take control ' actions.
I should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, write, balance accounts, build a wall, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, pitch manure, program a computer, cook, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Mon 05 Aug 2019, 12:44:38

Tanada wrote:I call it a general anger that life today is not going they want it to go today and lashing out at inanimate objects is safer than attacking other people, and gives the vandals a feeling of control over something in their life.

It doesn't have to make a lot of sense but I have discovered much to my dismay that a lot of people abuse the commons simply because they can. It can be anything from throwing their trash on the ground five feet from the garbage can to carving their initials in the bus stop to a wide range of other 'take control ' actions.

OK. That's one obvious interpretation of your "angry people" comment, but I didn't want to just assume.

That's one thing I really liked about Canada, when I visited Toronto in the early 80's. It was so CLEAN, and it wasn't an accident. They had penalties like $1000 fines for littering. (And guess what? I never litter, but I consciously was very careful to make sure trash can lids were replaced, or gum wrappers were put DEEP into my pockets, etc, just to be on the safe side.)

Nothing like incentive and showing that society cares about certain standards. When I visited an Uncle's family in Detroit a couple years later and commented on this, he pointed out that in Detroit they regularly had to remove HUGE MOUNDS of trash from certain interstate stretches, since people threw so much trash out their windows.

I realize we can't stop all such behavior. But we sure as hell could make it a lot more risky re big fines -- and clearly such fines can help. What's the downside -- political correctness demerits?
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby EdwinSm » Thu 08 Aug 2019, 23:53:04

Tesla motors make classic Ferraris go faster.

An interesting article about using old parts (say from a crashed Tesla) to renovate and electralize old cars. An engineers paradise for recycling.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-48956000?intlink_from_url=https://www.bbc.com/news/business&link_location=live-reporting-story

City dwellers like him don't need the range of a Tesla for their commute, and using batteries from old laptops destined to be scrapped or recycled could prove a cheap way of converting the family car.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby asg70 » Fri 09 Aug 2019, 08:15:01

There's a viable aftermarket of people using these leftover Tesla parts. It would be nice of there were a way to order these parts directly, not just for the these projects but for 3rd party mechanics.

HALL OF SHAME:
-Short welched on a bet and should be shunned.
-Frequent-flyers should not cry crocodile-tears over climate-change.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby asg70 » Fri 09 Aug 2019, 12:20:31

Taycan is real. Unfortunately the raw 0-60 doesn't match Tesla, but it excels in other areas.

https://youtu.be/TP9kokeyxGU

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-Frequent-flyers should not cry crocodile-tears over climate-change.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby dolanbaker » Fri 09 Aug 2019, 13:27:27

asg70 wrote:There's a viable aftermarket of people using these leftover Tesla parts. It would be nice of there were a way to order these parts directly, not just for the these projects but for 3rd party mechanics.

Tesla are using the new parts as quickly as they're being made, JIT being the preferred method of manufacture.
Parts from crashed cars will be scarce for quite some time so the alternative is to buy from Chinese component manufacturers. There seems to be a ready supply of these parts.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby StarvingLion » Fri 16 Aug 2019, 13:05:56

This is it. This is the only fundable EV possible. Because Solar can't really fund anything, can it. This is the "revolution" you are begging for...

LOL, you people are so screwed its ....

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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Fri 16 Aug 2019, 17:21:37

asg70 wrote:Taycan is real. Unfortunately the raw 0-60 doesn't match Tesla, but it excels in other areas.

https://youtu.be/TP9kokeyxGU

Unless you're on a drag strip, how much real world difference can a 2.6 second (where you're potentially shortening the life of the Tesla) vs. a 3+ second 0-60 time really mean?

Especially if you can repeatedly accelerate to 125ish reliably for fast roads or the track, without the car going into crippled battery mode, for the Porsche?

...

If it weren't really a BMW mechanically, I'd be REALLY tempted by the new Toyota Supra if I wanted a performance car, and its 0-60 is only in the 4 second area. (The new Mustang GT has too many serious mechanical reliability risks for me).

I just don't think the Tesla fans are credibly going to be able to live on the 0-60 time for a ton of money "superiority" for all that long as the number of BEV choices multiplies.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby dohboi » Fri 16 Aug 2019, 21:04:37

Not sure what thread to put this in, so I'll just dump it here:

EV chargers outnumber gas stations in the UK for the first time

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-superch ... ations-uk/

Not really a game changer or anything, but they seem to be farther along than I had any idea of.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby dolanbaker » Fri 16 Aug 2019, 22:30:04

It's really down to the time required to charge an EV compared to filling up an ICE vehicle, plus the fact that most fuel stations have multiple pumps as opposed to EV charging stations are usually single units.
Apples to oranges comparison in reality.
Most EV owners will have a home charging system already installed, thus they will make limited usage of public chargers, which will mostly be used by drivers who are going on a longer than usual journey.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby StarvingLion » Tue 20 Aug 2019, 11:51:41

The bankrupt Gubamint will have to fund Shale Nightmare in 2023 after XOM goes broke. In other words they won't be funding the absurd EV revolution after that point. There is your EV window staring you in the face: 2020-2023. Here are the Economic Laws of the 21'st Century:

Law 1: In the absence of proper crude oil, the intrinsic monetary value of Solar Electricity converges toward $0

Law 2: The only good battery is a dirt cheap battery.


The consequence of Law 2 is that Lithium Ion need not apply for sedans and SUV's. So all there will be is EV scooters and EV buses carrying hordes to lay claim on fresh water.

Conclusion: The Lithium Ion Battery is Dead
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby EdwinSm » Wed 11 Sep 2019, 05:31:40

I guess that I could include an article about self-drive cars in this section:

This is a short video report on What happens if you fall asleep in a self-driving car? https://www.bbc.com/news/av/business-49652566/what-happens-if-you-fall-asleep-in-a-self-driving-car

Ouch!
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