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THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Discussions of conventional and alternative energy production technologies.

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby AdamB » Fri 10 May 2019, 12:55:23

Plantagenet wrote:People want to see the car and kick the tires before they buy it. Its just human nature. Teslas weren't "real" to me until I visited the lower 48 and went into a Tesla store in San Francisco and checked it out for myself. I'm sure many people feel the same way....they want to see and test drive a car before they spend huge amounts of money on it, and there are large areas of the US (and the world) where the lack of dealers with cars is a buzzkill.


Indeed. While you were there, did you test drive one so you would know the difference between electric and ICE power?
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby Plantagenet » Fri 10 May 2019, 15:17:51

AdamB wrote: did you test drive one


No. I knew I wasn't going to buy one. They aren't very practical in Alaska where I live.

AdamB wrote:.... the difference between electric and ICE power?


If you don't understand the difference between electric and ICE engines, then I suggest you educate yourself. EVs are going to become increasingly important in the coming years.

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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby AdamB » Fri 10 May 2019, 15:30:10

Plantagenet wrote:
AdamB wrote: did you test drive one


No. I knew I wasn't going to buy one. They aren't very practical in Alaska where I live.


I recently read an interesting article on how demand is this ephemeral thing, difficult to measure until it converts to consumption and a given unit of supply is achieved. The example they were using was Tesla, that because it isn't heavily advertised, people didn't know they should even have an interest, until a friend told them about them, or they decided to try one out on their own, basically they needed to experience it. Upon experiencing it, this unknown ephemeral demand drove another unit of supply. The argument being that the difference between what people are used to and expect from their cars is something differnet than what an electric drives like.

After having driven my first all electric (as compared to first the Gen I hybrids and then the pluggable hybrids I have used since then) I can see how this point works. It surprised me, the difference between a purpose built electric and a pluggable hybrid. And now I understand how Tesla can sell so many of the things. Doesn't hurt that after the wife got her drive in a Model S, she has decided that at least a Model 3 will be our next, and perhaps final, automobile.

Plantagenet wrote:
AdamB wrote:.... the difference between electric and ICE power?


If you don't understand the difference between electric and ICE engines, then I suggest you educate yourself. EVs are going to become increasingly important in the coming years.

Cheers!


Unlike those who deliberately choose to remain ignorant of the difference, I am quite familiar with it, having driven both. If you want to cherry pick meaning from a sentence, you need to crop it a little more to make it look like I don't know the difference between the drive trains, as opposed to how they power the cars. More cherry picking, less actual discussion! That's the Plant we all know and love! :lol: :lol:
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby Plantagenet » Fri 10 May 2019, 15:40:26

AdamB wrote:... after the wife got her drive in a Model S, she has decided that at least a Model 3 will be our next, and perhaps final, automobile.


You are wise to let your wife make these important decisions for you.

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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby asg70 » Fri 10 May 2019, 18:54:39

Plantagenet wrote:They aren't very practical in Alaska where I live.


No less practical than Norway which is the EV ownership capital of the world (per capita) but we all know you have no interest in lowering your carbon footprint.

AdamB wrote:I understand how Tesla can sell so many of the things. Doesn't hurt that after the wife got her drive in a Model S, she has decided that at least a Model 3 will be our next, and perhaps final, automobile.


I will await your entry into the EV bandwagon club thread.

After a while it will be amusing watching the remaining die-hard peakers continue to quake in their boots over a Mad Max future while we've long ended our need to pay at the pump. They bash BAU and fearmonger/cheerlead for doom while simultaneously using every possible excuse to do...absolutely nothing.

Oh, the sweet joy of being smug...
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby Plantagenet » Fri 10 May 2019, 21:03:54

asg70 wrote:
Plantagenet wrote:They aren't very practical in Alaska where I live.

No less practical than Norway which is the EV ownership capital of the world (per capita)


Unlike Norway, Alaska doesn't have a network of EV charging stations, you environmental ignoramus.

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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby asg70 » Fri 10 May 2019, 23:31:11

Plantagenet wrote:Unlike Norway, Alaska doesn't have a network of EV charging stations, you environmental ignoramus.


Thanks to the right-winger ideology that dominates there, like your old air-headed favorite, Sarah, "Drill Baby Drill", Palin:

Image

Oh, and BTW, nobody's forcing you to live in Alaska. Other than some blind faith in its continued local oil production I can't think of many worse places to make it through any sort of classic peak-oil doom scenario.

BTW, I have yet to have a need to use a remote charger with my EV, but the local supermarket isn't 100 miles away through blinding snow like Plantaga-nanook of the North over there.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby Plantagenet » Fri 10 May 2019, 23:57:53

asg70 wrote:....Sarah Palin......


Ex-Governors don't control the availability of EV charging stations in their state a decade after they leave office, you environment ignoramus. Don't you know anything?

asg70 wrote: nobody's forcing you to live in Alaska.


And nobody's forcing you to live in your mother's basement.

asg70 wrote: I can't think of many worse places to make it through any sort of classic peak-oil doom scenario.


Thats one of the nice things about Alaska. Its one of the most beautiful places on earth and it tends to attract people who like things like wilderness and high mountains and remote uninhabited islands rather then delusional people whose main concern is how to make it through "a classic peak-oil doom scenario."

Image
Alaska----Not a good place to make it through a classic peak-oil doom scenario.

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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby asg70 » Sat 11 May 2019, 00:46:59

Plantagenet wrote:Ex-Governors don't control the availability of EV charging stations


Point...missed...as usual.

Alaska's a petro-state and skews right (despite the natives not liking their coastal towns slipping into the ocean with global warming). It hasn't had the epiphany Norway has and that's why it's not up with the times. I get it. You don't give a shit, despite supposedly caring about the environment. That's your cognitive dissonance, not mine.

Plantagenet wrote:Its one of the most beautiful places on earth and...


Hey, if you think Alaska's invulnerable from peak oil doom I don't know why you ever joined this site in the first place.

There WAS a time in this forum where there was quite a bit of dick-wagging over which location was better poised to handle peak oil than others. I doubt many would pick Alaska as a bugout.

At any rate, you seem quite obsessed about EVs for someone who otherwise is defensive as hell about why he won't buy one. But that's the way your mind works.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sat 11 May 2019, 08:55:53

asg70 wrote:...shit....


Your potty mouth is overflowing again.

Please flush.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby AdamB » Sat 11 May 2019, 09:15:11

Plantagenet wrote:
AdamB wrote:... after the wife got her drive in a Model S, she has decided that at least a Model 3 will be our next, and perhaps final, automobile.


You are wise to let your wife make these important decisions for you.

Cheers!


Indeed. And do you have any more experience with this dynamic than you did how an EV drives, or are you just blowing smoke out your ass on yet another topic you have no personal knowledge or understanding of?
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby AdamB » Sat 11 May 2019, 09:20:04

asg70 wrote:
Plantagenet wrote:They aren't very practical in Alaska where I live.


No less practical than Norway which is the EV ownership capital of the world (per capita) but we all know you have no interest in lowering your carbon footprint.


but but but...Alaska is a SPECIAL place...not like those grubby Norwegians! How dare they use EVs when Planty says they don't work in Alaska! Not that Planty knows how they work at all, but since when did ignorance ever stop the ignorant from forming an opinion and pretending it was of value!

asg70 wrote:After a while it will be amusing watching the remaining die-hard peakers continue to quake in their boots over a Mad Max future while we've long ended our need to pay at the pump. They bash BAU and fearmonger/cheerlead for doom while simultaneously using every possible excuse to do...absolutely nothing.

Oh, the sweet joy of being smug...


I have been part of the personal transport peak oil solution long before peak oilers even realized that their lack of geologic, oil field practice, engineering and economic experience was making them look foolish. I started with the Gen I hybrids, but have been EVing around now for about 6 years. Pluggable hybrids, which as I have recently learned, aren't quite the same animal as a full on EV.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby AdamB » Sat 11 May 2019, 09:25:07

Plantagenet wrote:
asg70 wrote:
Plantagenet wrote:They aren't very practical in Alaska where I live.

No less practical than Norway which is the EV ownership capital of the world (per capita)


Unlike Norway, Alaska doesn't have a network of EV charging stations, you environmental ignoramus.

Cheers!


You mean, those things we who live in the Lower 48 refer to as....garages?

Amazing! Alaskans don't have garages! How can this be! Oh wait! It happens because you are ignorant of how or where to charge EVs (like at your house) because you don't know anything about them and revel in that ignorance! Sorry....perhaps you just don't have a garage and that is the problem? If that is the case, you have my sympathy, garages are great to have attached to one's housing, you can store motorcycles and cars in them, jet skis and dirt bikes, workbenches to do..you know...work on....and then they become charging stations for your EV as well! I realize all this YUGE complexity with the care and feeding of an EV might be beyond the average Alaskans intellect...but you can always move to a place where it is both warmer, and you can gain intelligence through osmosis from your new neighbors or already know all of this basic kind of stuff?
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby AdamB » Sat 11 May 2019, 09:34:14

Plantagenet wrote:Thats one of the nice things about Alaska. Its one of the most beautiful places on earth and it tends to attract people who like things like wilderness and high mountains and remote uninhabited islands rather then delusional people whose main concern is how to make it through "a classic peak-oil doom scenario."


Alaska is gorgeous. So is the Yukon, British Columbia, western and central Colorado, western Montana, northern Arizona and southern Utah, northern California, the Canadian Rockies in general, northern New England, the swamps of Louisiana, the hill country of Texas, eastern Tennessee, and I'm betting their residents are all smart enough to figure out how to plug in an extension cord from the wall to their EV!!
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby asg70 » Sat 11 May 2019, 10:38:10

AdamB wrote:Pluggable hybrids, which as I have recently learned, aren't quite the same animal as a full on EV.


It's been an eye-opener seeing how few actual miles I travel on a daily basis. I definitely could have gotten by with a Volt or a Clarity and came close to getting one. I'm also seeing lots and lots of Level 2 destination chargers crop up in my area. I have yet to use a single public charger with the Kona but if I had a Volt or Clarity I would be able to lean on public chargers in a big way to extend the limited EV range (although the Volt's 3.3kW limit sucks, only the last year offered a faster option). Plugins sort of come at the problem from the perspective that a) batteries are expensive and b) there are limited charging infrastructure. a) is slowly being addressed and b) is happening quicker (outside of backwards Palin-country).

BTW, here's a video talking about the rapid buildout of Electrify America. I definitely think the infrastructure advantage of Tesla has a quick expiration date. Between EA in the US and Ionity in Europe, non-Tesla EVs are going to reach parity for road-tripping in short order. This is good for consumers AND, a good bellweather for the Tony Seba EV adoption curve, and bad news for those still clinging to Mad Max peak oil narratives.
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ATTN: SHORT LOST A BET AND WON'T EVEN ADMIT HE MADE ONE. HE SHOULD NOT BE WELCOME HERE!!!
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby eclipse » Sat 11 May 2019, 16:54:55

asg70 wrote:
AdamB wrote:Pluggable hybrids, which as I have recently learned, aren't quite the same animal as a full on EV.


It's been an eye-opener seeing how few actual miles I travel on a daily basis. I definitely could have gotten by with a Volt or a Clarity and came close to getting one. I'm also seeing lots and lots of Level 2 destination chargers crop up in my area. I have yet to use a single public charger with the Kona but if I had a Volt or Clarity I would be able to lean on public chargers in a big way to extend the limited EV range (although the Volt's 3.3kW limit sucks, only the last year offered a faster option). Plugins sort of come at the problem from the perspective that a) batteries are expensive and b) there are limited charging infrastructure. a) is slowly being addressed and b) is happening quicker (outside of backwards Palin-country).

BTW, here's a video talking about the rapid buildout of Electrify America. I definitely think the infrastructure advantage of Tesla has a quick expiration date. Between EA in the US and Ionity in Europe, non-Tesla EVs are going to reach parity for road-tripping in short order. This is good for consumers AND, a good bellweather for the Tony Seba EV adoption curve, and bad news for those still clinging to Mad Max peak oil narratives.

Exactly! It's like only ICE cars are allowed to have some market values and various trial efforts along the way. Because 'oil is magic...' or something. Here we are in the early days, and we know that EV's can already do 90% of our daily drive. Doomers want to say not going on a long road trip is the end of the world, but America dropped 25% of its oil consumption in the GFC and while that was bad for the holiday crowd and tourist market, it wasn't Mad Max. Who knows where we'll be in 20 years? Fast charge infrastructure, super-batteries, or will battery swap make a come back? (Like getting a set of fresh horses for the king.) Battery swap would be a totally different economic model for the car manufacturer, but the technology works. There's always the option of hiring a synfuel car for that road trip.

NREL studies show we can convert about a third of our cars into EV's without requiring a single extra power plant if we turn all our baseload plants up to full and charge at night. This would mainly be light vehicles like family cars and light trucks. “For the United States as a whole, 84% of US cars, pickup trucks and SUVs could be supported by the existing infrastructure”
http://tinyurl.com/y6b6s7nx

This means that we can charge about a third of today's vehicles for "free" on today's electricity grid without building a single new power plant. Another study confirms that "the grid has enough excess capacity to support over 150 million battery-powered cars, or about 75 percent of the cars, pickups, and SUVs on the road in the United States." Technology Review August 2013 http://tinyurl.com/y3qvtv5k

Then for the heavy vehicles Tesla are building a heavy long-haul truck, but we can also build more nuclear power plants to crack seawater into e-diesel and jet fuel.
https://eclipsenow.wordpress.com/synthetic-diesel/
Dr James Hansen recommends breeder reactors that convert nuclear 'waste' into 1000 years of clean energy for America, and can charge all our light vehicles and generate "Blue Crude" for heavy vehicles.
https://eclipsenow.wordpress.com/recharge/
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby AdamB » Sat 11 May 2019, 21:07:57

asg70 wrote:
AdamB wrote:Pluggable hybrids, which as I have recently learned, aren't quite the same animal as a full on EV.


It's been an eye-opener seeing how few actual miles I travel on a daily basis. I definitely could have gotten by with a Volt or a Clarity and came close to getting one.


With pluggable hybrid you don't worry about range as much, but if you want to stay on electric all the time, you develop this kind of faux range anxiety. In part it is an economic issue, when your $100 month gasoline bill disappears, you want to keep it that way. Stopping at the gas station is this nasty choir, sort of like volunteering downtown to pick up used drug needles in the streets.

asg70 wrote: I'm also seeing lots and lots of Level 2 destination chargers crop up in my area. I have yet to use a single public charger with the Kona but if I had a Volt or Clarity I would be able to lean on public chargers in a big way to extend the limited EV range (although the Volt's 3.3kW limit sucks, only the last year offered a faster option). Plugins sort of come at the problem from the perspective that a) batteries are expensive and b) there are limited charging infrastructure. a) is slowly being addressed and b) is happening quicker (outside of backwards Palin-country).

BTW, here's a video talking about the rapid buildout of Electrify America. I definitely think the infrastructure advantage of Tesla has a quick expiration date. Between EA in the US and Ionity in Europe, non-Tesla EVs are going to reach parity for road-tripping in short order. This is good for consumers AND, a good bellweather for the Tony Seba EV adoption curve, and bad news for those still clinging to Mad Max peak oil narratives.


If memory serves, somewhere in this very forum were folks lauding the Volt and Leaf as an individual's peak oil personal transport solution, back during the now decade past peak oil hysteria days, were both roundly criticized or outright banned for daring to think for themselves, let alone espouse a real world available solution. That was just the way it was back then. I've been EVing with pluggables for better than 6 years and here recently the price of gasoline has gone up about $1.00/gal and my monthly fuel bill hasn't noticed in the least. Free fuel the wife gets at work means I don't even see the cost in my electricity bill.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sat 11 May 2019, 23:55:55

D legislator proposes a $1000 per year registration fee for EVs in Illinois

illinois-$1000-electric-vehicle-legislation

EV owners don't pay any gas taxes, so the idea of the $1000 registration fee is to collect money from EV owners for the construction and maintainance of highways, bridges, and other infrastructure.

Cheers!
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby AdamB » Sun 12 May 2019, 00:37:23

Plantagenet wrote:D legislator proposes a $1000 per year registration fee for EVs in Illinois

illinois-$1000-electric-vehicle-legislation

EV owners don't pay any gas taxes, so the idea of the $1000 registration fee is to collect money from EV owners for the construction and maintainance of highways, bridges, and other infrastructure.

Cheers!


The good news being, with Illinois gun laws, I sure won't be moving there. Ever.
Peak oil in 2020: And here is why: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b3ttqYDwF0
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby eclipse » Sun 12 May 2019, 03:51:12

AdamB wrote:The good news being, with Illinois gun laws, I sure won't be moving there. Ever.


Hi AdamB,
I'm watching the video you have linked in your signature, and I'm about a third of the way in. It's great so far, but I'm a little sceptical that the lithium costs can drop low enough, fast enough for where I think the talk is going. Basically, batteries for EV's, great, but batteries to enable intermittent renewables to phase out nukes? I'm sceptical. Have you read this?
https://thebreakthrough.org/issues/ener ... -disrupted

PS: I'm at half way and he's just covered how long EV's will last. Mind blown!

PPS: Aside from his question of when batteries + solar become 'disruptive' to utilities, when do batteries + solar let us run society without baseload, especially countries like Germany where renewables might be cut 90% for weeks at a time in winter? How on earth do you charge up those batteries for long enough?
Dr James Hansen recommends breeder reactors that convert nuclear 'waste' into 1000 years of clean energy for America, and can charge all our light vehicles and generate "Blue Crude" for heavy vehicles.
https://eclipsenow.wordpress.com/recharge/
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