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THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 11

Discussions of conventional and alternative energy production technologies.

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 11

Unread postby aadbrd » Sat 20 Mar 2021, 13:50:20

mousepad wrote:Not at all. Key is a clever computer. You press the brake pedal and the computer knows if it should use regenerative braking or traditional braking.


That still requires training to get used to vs. the gearing of even an automatic transmission gas car.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 11

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sat 20 Mar 2021, 14:37:53

aadbrd wrote:
mousepad wrote:Not at all. Key is a clever computer. You press the brake pedal and the computer knows if it should use regenerative braking or traditional braking.


That still requires training to get used to vs. the gearing of even an automatic transmission gas car.


Not really.

Mousepad is 100% right on this one.

Anyone who owns a hybrid or EV (like me) knows from first hand experience that regenerative braking is automatically done by the AI in the car, just as mousepad says. Aaabrd's absurd claim that training is needed to use regenerative braking is just silly misinformation.

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.judgement is hereby rendered......Mousepad is 100% right on this one........

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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 11

Unread postby aadbrd » Sat 20 Mar 2021, 22:03:28

Plantagenet wrote:Anyone who owns a hybrid or EV (like me) knows from first hand experience that regenerative braking is automatically


It's not necessarily automatic. Most EVs have multiple levels of regen and the regen kicks in when you let off of the gas, not when you apply the brakes. And it makes sense that it be controllable because sometimes you may prefer coasting to having the car keep slowing down so severely when you release the gas pedal on level ground. Anyway, nobody knows exactly how this vehicle drives so I don't know why we need this level of amped up drama for the sake of drama. People are so worked up over the idea that this vehicle might need a learning curve? We don't even know how long the training is--could be just an hour for all we know. But no, let's touch off a prolonged flamewar over minutiae.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 11

Unread postby AdamB » Sat 20 Mar 2021, 22:43:49

aadbrd wrote:
mousepad wrote:Not at all. Key is a clever computer. You press the brake pedal and the computer knows if it should use regenerative braking or traditional braking.


That still requires training to get used to vs. the gearing of even an automatic transmission gas car.


You are an EV ignoramous. I did it the first time I ever climbed into an EV during the test drive, it was as natural as picking ones nose and required no more training than you did for using diapers. Or anyone else who has never driven an EV.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 11

Unread postby AdamB » Sat 20 Mar 2021, 22:49:21

aadbrd wrote:
Plantagenet wrote:Anyone who owns a hybrid or EV (like me) knows from first hand experience that regenerative braking is automatically


It's not necessarily automatic. Most EVs have multiple levels of regen and the regen kicks in when you let off of the gas, not when you apply the brakes.


Wrong again. Both my EVs use regen when the brake is applied. It is only when you want more braking than the regen system is capable of do the calipers engage. I've got 140K on EV #1 and the original pads and rotors are still on it, the rotors as smooth as a babies bottom, and I appear to have used a small fraction of the brake pad material in that time. I'm estimating that the engine wears out before the brakes do.

EV half wit.

Just goes to show what you learn from google versus personal experience. Less of the former, more of the latter, unless you prefer continuing to look stupid of course.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 11

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Sat 20 Mar 2021, 23:05:10

I'll share this with you. Tonight we had a family and friends gathering here on the hill. One of the guests was entering the hot tub about the time I was leaving (not being of the age of the hot tuber's) She said if she was parked behind me the "keys" were in the truck and just move it. Sure enough she had me totally boxed in between other vehicles and six foot snow banks. So I climb in and set the seat back from her 5 ft two inch position and find the key fob only to find that it has no traditional key and after playing with the unlock lock buttons finally figure out how to start the truck without hitting the "panic button" which would have bothered the tubers to then find out the truck has no shift lever. A bit more looking and I found the knob that switches from one gear to another not unlike the switch on my own truck that switches from two to four wheel drive. I got the truck moved and mine own out of there and I hope her dome lights go off after a reasonable time like my truck's do. But it is a bit interesting when you first see a new way of doing things. I recall my confusion when thew first car I bought had the dimmer switch for the head lights on the turn signal wand instead of a foot activated floor switch.
I did not put the seat back so she will have a moment too when her feet will not reach the pedals. :)
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 11

Unread postby JuanP » Sat 20 Mar 2021, 23:29:34

"2022 GMC Hummer EV"
https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/2022 ... orsepower/

Now this is an EV for REAL men!
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 11

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sun 21 Mar 2021, 02:19:45

As I predicted, China is tightening the screws on Tesla a bit at a time. Apparently the Chinese are claiming that Tesla cars are spying for the US.

Musk is denying that his cars are spying on China for the US

musk-tesla-would-be-shut-down-if-its-cars-spied-in-china-

Musk knows that Tesla is in trouble in China. He's trying to rationally argue that Tesla cars aren't spying on China.....but the truth doesn't matter here. China doesn't have to ban Tesla's to drive them out of the China market.....all China has to do is say that Tesla cars are spies for the US.....and no self-respecting Chinese patriot is going to own a Tesla.

This little lie about Tesla cars being spies for the US is going to hurt Tesla sales in China......and there is nothing that Tesla or Elon Musk can do about it.

Image
Elon Musk is out there frantically trying to explain that Teslas aren't spying on China for the US. Good luck with that........

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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 11

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Sun 21 Mar 2021, 09:22:32

Plantagenet wrote:As I predicted, China is tightening the screws on Tesla a bit at a time. Apparently the Chinese are claiming that Tesla cars are spying for the US.

Musk is denying that his cars are spying on China for the US

Cheers!

Or, as per usual, you're trying to make something out of very little. 8O

It's not the Chinese, as in all the Chinese or the Chinese generally. It's ONLY Chinese military installations that have the concern. And it's due to the rear facing cameras in the cars. Just like GM with Cruise has such cameras, to monitor driver attention.

Just like military installations pretty much everywhere. Just like private corporate buildings many places (for 3 decades, IBM, where I worked, had an absolute ban on ANY cameras. If there was some special event where picture taking was to occur, special permission had to be granted, forms had to be filled out, etc. For even a very ordinary office building. (Special labs with secret projects had locked doors with special combination high security locks, heavy duty doors, and only admitted people who worked in them).

The article I first saw on this also said Iphones are banned on such bases due to the cameras. Are you going to claim this means the Chinese are leaning on Apple? :roll:

So yeah, to the extent military folks who only own one car want a Tesla and HAVE to park their car on base, this might impact Tesla sales. Not exactly doom for Tesla though. :idea:

For example, for those who want context instead of Planty style fake drama:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ut-cameras

https://www.engadget.com/china-military ... 36546.html

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tesl ... SKBN2BB18R
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 11

Unread postby aadbrd » Sun 21 Mar 2021, 11:08:14

AdamB wrote:Both my EVs use regen when the brake is applied.


Has it ever occurred to you that in order to press the brake pedal you first must release the accelerator and thus by doing so it triggers the regen anyway? The only way to prove this out would be to set the car to coast when you let off the gas and then see what happens when you press the brake pedal--assuming the car allows this. Regen behavior and settings vary widely from car to car.

More on the subject:

https://www.insideevsforum.com/communit ... icles.917/

The point I was making originally is that it's not true that regen is always purely "automatic" in EVs. Different regen settings are more suitable to different terrains and driving styles. Sure, there is a default mode, but you are encouraged to find a setting you like (hence the learning curve).

Shall we continue to beat this dead horse?

A note about efficiency:

coasting is the most efficient, and regen should only be used to slow down. If you need a lot of regen, then you are accelerating too much. Regen is only a less bad way to brake, than the friction brakes.


Hypermiling favors coasting on level roads. Stop and go and hills favors regen. There is no ideal one size all regen mode if one is interested in maximizing efficiency.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 11

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sun 21 Mar 2021, 12:14:00

Outcast_Searcher wrote:
Plantagenet wrote:As I predicted, China is tightening the screws on Tesla a bit at a time. Apparently the Chinese are claiming that Tesla cars are spying for the US.
Musk is denying that his cars are spying on China for the US

Cheers!

Or, as per usual, you're trying to make something out of very little.
It's not the Chinese, as in all the Chinese or the Chinese generally. It's ONLY Chinese military installations that have the concern. And it's due to the rear facing cameras in the cars. Just like GM with Cruise has such cameras, to monitor driver attention.


As per usual, you are posting misinformation.

This is not NOT just a problem for Tesla on Chinese military installations. You seem to have forgotten that China is a totalitarian state, run by the Chinese communist party....and its the CCP who have introduced this crazy rule to attack Tesla. Now party members in China won't buy Teslas because they are banned on military installations. And 1 in 10 people in China are members of the CCP. AND Its isn't hard to see that if China gets away with banning Teslas on military installations they could ban them elsewhere. AND it isn't hard to see that this is an attack on Tesla by the CCP.

And, in a totalitarian state like China, when the CCP turns thumbs down on some foreign product like the Tesla, who do you imagine will want to be seen driving around in a Tesla? China is an exceedingly nationalistic and patriotic country right now......do you really think people are going to rush to buy US Teslas when the CCP is signaling that people shouldn't buy Teslas?

Even if you aren't perceptive enough to see the potential problem for Tesla here, clearly others are. The news media is covering this heavily, and Tesla stock got walloped again over this news. Musk himself knows this is a problem and thats why he spoke out to address this problem....But I predict Musk won't be able to stop this problem in China. Its his word agains the CCPs....and guess who's going to win that argument in China?

china-matters-a-lot-to-tesla-thats-why-elon-musk-has-given-assurances-about-its-data-

The only thing that could help Tesla now is if the Biden administration stood up for Tesla and threatened more sanctions on China. But China cleverly waited until Trump was gone, because Trump would stand up to them. Biden is compromised and Biden won't lift a finger against china.

I predicted that China would slowly tighten the screws on China......and just as I predicted China has made a move to tighten screws down and hurt Tesla.

And, once again, my prediction turned out to be 100% correct. I now predict china will take additional steps against Tesla, hurting their sales in China significantly.

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I think I'll take a victory dance on my first prediction......watch me now.....I was RIGHT! My PREDICTION was CORRECT! I saw this COMING! Uh! Uh! UH! UH! VICTORY IS SWEET! Uh! Um! Ahhh! UH! I'm RIGHT AGAIN! I"M like so RIGHT on this ONE! UH!

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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 11

Unread postby evilgenius » Sun 21 Mar 2021, 12:35:04

Plantagenet wrote:As I predicted, China is tightening the screws on Tesla a bit at a time. Apparently the Chinese are claiming that Tesla cars are spying for the US.

Musk is denying that his cars are spying on China for the US

musk-tesla-would-be-shut-down-if-its-cars-spied-in-china-

Musk knows that Tesla is in trouble in China. He's trying to rationally argue that Tesla cars aren't spying on China.....but the truth doesn't matter here. China doesn't have to ban Tesla's to drive them out of the China market.....all China has to do is say that Tesla cars are spies for the US.....and no self-respecting Chinese patriot is going to own a Tesla.

This little lie about Tesla cars being spies for the US is going to hurt Tesla sales in China......and there is nothing that Tesla or Elon Musk can do about it.

Image
Elon Musk is out there frantically trying to explain that Teslas aren't spying on China for the US. Good luck with that........

Cheers!

I think the reason this works is because your average Chinese has some idea of what the cultural revolution was like. Mao used the young to wreak havoc upon their culture, in the name of catching up. It solidified Mao's power. No political enemy could develop a position to assail him from. Those who might have been able, like Zhou Enlai, to threaten him he dealt with. He didn't have to kill everybody as much as ensure they relied upon him. Anyway, not many Chinese want to go back to that. They realize that buying a symbol like a Tesla might predispose them to it. But China does have, also, to appeal to the emerging independent crowd, without encouraging revolution. They need the sort of decision making power the market those people have developed gives them. It works better than five year plans. They might give them Tesla back, if they ask the right way.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 11

Unread postby AdamB » Sun 21 Mar 2021, 17:08:28

aadbrd wrote:
AdamB wrote:Both my EVs use regen when the brake is applied.


Has it ever occurred to you that in order to press the brake pedal you first must release the accelerator and thus by doing so it triggers the regen anyway?


Has it occurred to you, an EV ignoramous, that if I am hypermiling, I am lifting off the throttle and shifting into neutral at the same time, in order to have NO regen because I am choosing to conserve momentum?

And then shifting back into drive, as that provides a small level of regen, as opposed to shifting into L, which provides far more regen, and then finally at 2 mph using the brakes to bring the car to a complete stop. You can feel when the brake systems on both EVs transition to pad/rotor...but then...you wouldn't know that, learning all you know from googling and pretending that substitutes for experience.

I see you discovering pieces of this while googling. Those of us who did it without having been told, never been trained, and happily doing it anyway, didn't even require that.

aardbrd wrote:Hypermiling favors coasting on level roads. Stop and go and hills favors regen. There is no ideal one size all regen mode if one is interested in maximizing efficiency.


Go teach your grandmother how to suck eggs, see if she doesn't want to smack you upside your "gee I learned it for the first time how amazing" head.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 11

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sun 21 Mar 2021, 17:43:10

China's attack on Tesla is not limited just to a ban on Tesla's driving onto military installations as some here are falsely claiming....

china-bans-tesla-cars-military-more

China is also limiting the use of Tesla cars by employees in both the military and people who work for "key state-owned companies." China has told some government agencies to order their staff to stop driving their cars to work. China is also banning Tesla's from the housing compounds where people who work in sensitive fields live with their families.

Thats bad enough for Tesla, but by going public with these irrational restrictions on Tesla, the CCP has revealed that government policy is now to attack Tesla by limiting the use of Tesla vehicles in China. Everyone in China now knows that the CCP has begun to attack Tesla, and at any time the CCP can increase the intensity of the attack by imposing additional irrational restrictions on the use of Tesla cars in China.

I predict the feud between the government of China and Tesla is going to get worse, and future Tesla sales in China are going to come under significant pressure.

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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 11

Unread postby StarvingLion » Sun 21 Mar 2021, 18:01:15

Toyota says you're all a bunch of hapless dreaming dumbs.

https://pjmedia.com/culture/bryan-prest ... g-n1433674

Toyota Warns (Again) About Electrifying All Autos. Is Anyone Listening?
By Bryan Preston Mar 19, 2021 12:50 PM ET

Toyota’s addressing reality and its record is evidence that it deserves to be heard.

Toyota isn’t saying none of this can be done, by the way. It’s just saying that so far, the conversation isn’t anywhere near serious enough to get things done.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 11

Unread postby Newfie » Sun 21 Mar 2021, 21:34:44

Starving,

Good article, thanks.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 11

Unread postby JuanP » Sun 21 Mar 2021, 23:28:29

StarvingLion wrote:Toyota says you're all a bunch of hapless dreaming dumbs.

https://pjmedia.com/culture/bryan-prest ... g-n1433674

Toyota Warns (Again) About Electrifying All Autos. Is Anyone Listening?
By Bryan Preston Mar 19, 2021 12:50 PM ET

Toyota’s addressing reality and its record is evidence that it deserves to be heard.

Toyota isn’t saying none of this can be done, by the way. It’s just saying that so far, the conversation isn’t anywhere near serious enough to get things done.


Interesting that the 3 top selling vehicles in the USA today are the Toyota RAV4, Honda CRV, and Nissan Rogue. Those are the three choices, together with a Toyota Tacoma, I considered when we purchased our last vehicle 30,000 miles ago. I would never consider an American brand in today's market. The USA doesn't design a single car I would consider buying, not a single one!
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 11

Unread postby AdamB » Mon 22 Mar 2021, 13:10:27

JuanP wrote: The USA doesn't design a single car I would consider buying, not a single one!


I once thought the same way. Some experience with post 2008 American models has changed my mind, current fleet is 50/50 foreign and domestic, with a penchant for Fords.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 11

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 22 Mar 2021, 23:04:15

StarvingLion wrote:Toyota says you're all a bunch of hapless dreaming dumbs.

https://pjmedia.com/culture/bryan-prest ... g-n1433674

Toyota Warns (Again) About Electrifying All Autos. Is Anyone Listening?
By Bryan Preston Mar 19, 2021 12:50 PM ET

Toyota’s addressing reality and its record is evidence that it deserves to be heard.

Toyota isn’t saying none of this can be done, by the way. It’s just saying that so far, the conversation isn’t anywhere near serious enough to get things done.


Lets wait and hear what the Biden plan is.

Biden and the Ds have already shown they are willing to spend 2 trillion dollars on covid relief for the next five years even though the covid recession is now ending. AND Biden and the Ds are willing to open the borders to any illegal alien child, even if they have stack them up in cells and holding pens. And when ugly photos come out of illegal alien kids sleeping on concrete floor with space blankets, the Ds now say they will spend hundreds of millions of dollars flying the kids to the canadian border and putting them up in post hotels with room service.

Obviously Biden and the ds are willing to spend incredible amounts of money on absolutely crazy stuff.

I'm going to reserve judgment on how impractical it is to shift all electric cars until I see just how much money the Biden administration is willing to print and spend to get it done. For instance, If Biden and the Ds will buy everybody in the US an EV and build everybody their own personal windmill then it might work.

And who's to say at the Ds won't do that?

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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 11

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Sat 27 Mar 2021, 09:49:13

Plantagenet wrote:
I'm going to reserve judgment on how impractical it is to shift all electric cars until I see just how much money the Biden administration is willing to print and spend to get it done. For instance, If Biden and the Ds will buy everybody in the US an EV and build everybody their own personal windmill then it might work.

And who's to say at the Ds won't do that?

Cheers!

Well not totally impractical. Say the goal is 100,000,000 EVs to totally replace the current US personal vehicle fleet driven the current average 13,600 miles a year. Also assume no improvement over current battery size and range of a Tesla (75kwhs and 300 mile range per charge) so 46 charges per year or 3450 KWH/year per car. Now take your average current tech commercial wind mill producing six million KWHs per year you get that each mill can support 1740 cars so with a bit of rounding a full EV fleet would require 58,000 average commercial wind mills to fuel the fleet. That would total some 350 billion KWHs of electric production but considering the current number of wind mills 67,000 with an annual production of 300 billion KWHs (not all existing are the size of what is being installed today) it would not take much of a building program to have the entire US vehicle fleet powered by wind power alone as fast as the cars are built and put into service.
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