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THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 11

Discussions of conventional and alternative energy production technologies.

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 11

Unread postby aadbrd » Wed 10 Mar 2021, 11:21:38

AdamB wrote:And you won't answer the question, and it is becoming suspicious. Your personal ideas on EVs might be...what? Exactly the macho white man routine you want to pretend is the same as every other macho white Republican leaning male?


More or less, yeah. We're fighting over statistics. It doesn't have to be "every other" macho white Republican leaning male to be "most", and if it's "most", that poses a challenge to EV adoption. You are in denial of that challenge. That is the fantasy in question in contrast to my realism. I mean, conservatives are still struggling to accept the phaseout of incandescent bulbs. I get that you feel personally threatened by being called a luddite but I am not making this stuff up. Conservatives are traditionalists by nature and resistant to change. This is just common sense.

aardbrd wrote:You haven't provided an anecdote.


Sure I did. I posted links to coal-rollers, Tesla vandals, and iceholes. If you want more, go ahead and google them.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 11

Unread postby AdamB » Wed 10 Mar 2021, 15:33:09

aadbrd wrote:
AdamB wrote:And you won't answer the question, and it is becoming suspicious. Your personal ideas on EVs might be...what? Exactly the macho white man routine you want to pretend is the same as every other macho white Republican leaning male?


More or less, yeah. We're fighting over statistics.


I haven't mentioned a single statistic, providing instead some local empirical data and a decades of personal experience. Do you have a survey or something where Republican white men in flyover states believe that EVs are bad for their manliness joo-joo?

aardbrd wrote: It doesn't have to be "every other" macho white Republican leaning male to be "most", and if it's "most", that poses a challenge to EV adoption. You are in denial of that challenge.


I don't accept the premise that adopting EVs is a challenge. An economic consequence of people and governments looking for an alternative to hydrocarbon based fuels perhaps, with both advocates and detractors (such as those you assign a political affiliation to).

aardbrd wrote: That is the fantasy in question in contrast to my realism.


Enunciate your experience with EVs and we can talk about your "realism".

aardbrd wrote:
You haven't provided an anecdote.


Sure I did. I posted links to coal-rollers, Tesla vandals, and iceholes. If you want more, go ahead and google them.


You pointed out stunts by folks acting in some juvenile manner, as time honored a tradition (acting silly) as Thanksgiving and Christmas in the US. Are you claiming that all white male Republicans are juveniles, or act like them? Have you ever been coal-rolled? Insulted for driving your EV? Do you personally participate in TP parties for folks in your neighborhood who own them?

What do you know about owning an EV, other than what you've read on the internet? I've read on the internet that alien energy weapon technology brought down the Twin Towers on 9/11. It must be true!
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 11

Unread postby aadbrd » Thu 11 Mar 2021, 14:21:08

AdamB wrote:Do you have a survey or something where Republican white men in flyover states believe that EVs are bad for their manliness joo-joo?


First result from google:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/electric-c ... te-divide/

Out of the top 10 states for new and used hybrid, plug-in hybrid and all-electric cars, only two -- Arizona and Utah -- voted for Donald Trump in the 2016 presidential election


https://www.axios.com/electric-vehicle- ... 550ca.html

65% Republicans say they won't go electric within 5 years.

I could go on but really, you should do your own research rather than forcing me to spoon-feed links to you.

I get that you want to paint a pretty picture of EV adoption, which is nice, but it's not reflective of reality at present.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 11

Unread postby AdamB » Thu 11 Mar 2021, 14:59:54

aadbrd wrote:
AdamB wrote:Do you have a survey or something where Republican white men in flyover states believe that EVs are bad for their manliness joo-joo?


First result from google:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/electric-c ... te-divide/


Good thing that this survey was about states and their aggregate political affiliation rather than the reason you have assigned to white males doing juvenile acts to EVs because it affronts their manliness, or something. You haven't expressed your ideas on this topic other than suspiciously appearing to project reasons into said political affiliation. Why do you believe this is political, rather than socio-economic? Did you go to the state or national GOP convention and see orders issued their to coal-roll anything that looked like liberal on wheels?

aardbrd wrote:65% Republicans say they won't go electric within 5 years.


And peak oilers said peak oil had happened in the past. 15 years ago. There are no facts about the future, and I didn't see mention of a fuel price path included, in order for folks to make an informed economic choice, at this point in time during the next 5 years. I can agree that white male manliness (I've never seen or been coal rolled by a female in a monster truck, have you?) seems to require all sorts of weird manly behavior (guns, trucks, drinking, fighting, etc etc.).

aardbrd wrote:I could go on but really, you should do your own research rather than forcing me to spoon-feed links to you.


Let me know when you find that relationship between juvenile behavior and political affiliation and we'll talk. And let me know when you have any actual experience to bring to the table, on either side. I realize that you seem to have developed an opinion first and then tried to backfill with random state voting results in this case, but I haven't been talking about that, you have. I've been asking about what you KNOW rather than what you can google up. Did you know I can google up that alien energy weapons brought down the Twin Towers?
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 11

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Thu 11 Mar 2021, 15:32:07

A poll that asked would you "consider buying" in five years doesn't really tell you much. Young Democrats will consider , among lots of other things, having gay sex with a crack hoe while high on magic mushrooms in the next five years because considering is just thinking and they do a lot more thinking then they do doing. :-D
The fact that 44% overall will even consider it probably provides more customers then there will be cars to offer them.
I think the only thing that poll really shows is that the average age of Republicans is older then the average Democrat and seasoned citizens are more set in their buying patterns.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 11

Unread postby AdamB » Thu 11 Mar 2021, 15:41:09

vtsnowedin wrote:A poll that asked would you "consider buying" in five years doesn't really tell you much.


Well, aardbrd has been completely avoiding his/her direct involvement with EVs, as compared to having none and just saying the usual nonsense. The best selling point they tend to have is driving one. I know that BMW i3 was an eye opener when I began test driving the things.

vtsnowedin wrote:The fact that 44% overall will even consider it probably provides more customers then there will be cars to offer them.


You've got an inclination to get one, what is your take on why you want one, and why others do juvenile stunts against EV drivers? Beyond just being juveniles of course, aardbrd seems to indicate that it just Republicans who want to coal roll every EV they can find.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 11

Unread postby Plantagenet » Thu 11 Mar 2021, 17:55:48

First they came for the Volts......and people said, I don't drive a Volt....so EVs are still OK.
And they recalled the Konas.....and people said, I don't drive a Kona.....so EVs are still OK.
Then they recalled the BMWs......and people said, I don't drive a BMW hybrid......so EV batteries must still be still OK.

And now they are coming for the Kias........Hyundai just recalled 380,000 electric Kias due to the danger of spontaneous battery fires in the EV battery

kia-tells-owners-380000-vehicles-park-them-outside-due-spontaneous-engine-fire-risk]

Once again EV owners are being told to not park their EVs inside their garage, because the car might spontaneously erupt into flames at any moment and burn their house down.

I'm starting to see a pattern here with EVs.......and this pattern involves spontaneous combustion of EV batteries resulting in the recalls of hundreds of thousands of EVs made by multiple manufacturers....

Image
Git yer' Hyundai Kia EVs while they're hot! Oooopsies! Thats TOO hot!

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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 11

Unread postby yellowcanoe » Thu 11 Mar 2021, 18:19:11

I'd love to have an electric car as a second vehicle. It would be great for the all visits and shuttling of grandchildren that my wife does. Our province phased out coal generated power a few years back so most of our electric power is carbon free. Unfortunately electric vehicles remain expensive. List price for a base Nissan Leaf is $46,000 in Canada (admittedly those are cheap Canadian dollars not American dollars). A base ICE vehicle can be had for under $20,000.

Henry Ford managed to drastically reduce the cost of ICE vehicles through assembly line technology without any government support. We've been playing the costs of electric vehicles will drop if governments subsidize their purchase game for quite a while now but costs remain high. I would have to conclude that the cost of producing electric vehicles is inherently higher than producing ICE vehicles and I doubt that further government subsidies will change that. A future in which electric vehicles are the norm is a world in which the average person won't be able to afford a car.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 11

Unread postby AdamB » Thu 11 Mar 2021, 22:39:17

Plantagenet wrote:First they came for the Volts......and people said, I don't drive a Volt....so EVs are still OK.


Nobody came for my Volt. Did they come for yours?

Plantagenet wrote:Then they recalled the BMWs......and people said, I don't drive a BMW hybrid......so EV batteries must still be still OK.


The i3 I drove, the battery was fine. DId you own one that had a bad battery?

Plantagenet wrote:Once again EV owners are being told to not park their EVs inside their garage, because the car might spontaneously erupt into flames at any moment and burn their house down.


I park 2 in the garage now, and haven't been told not to. Are you sure you mean EVs, and not those killer ICE powered machines that incinerate 300+ people a year?

Plantagenet wrote:I'm starting to see a pattern here with EVs.......
Cheers!


How many have you owned, to base your fear mongering on? Or is this just you doing the "They recalled all the Bolts!" routine when in fact they didn't, and you didn't know it because you didn't read the article first?
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 11

Unread postby AdamB » Thu 11 Mar 2021, 22:44:20

yellowcanoe wrote: List price for a base Nissan Leaf is $46,000 in Canada (admittedly those are cheap Canadian dollars not American dollars). A base ICE vehicle can be had for under $20,000.


Damn!! I paid $8000 US for a used Leaf. No way I'm buying one new with the way their depreciation works. Been using it nonstop since mid-January. The thing is great, other than it gets stuck on a slick surface too easily because of the traction control. I've had that problem on every EV, hybrid and mixed hybrid I've owned. I keep a front driver with studded snows around for when the weather is bad. Supposed to get a couple feet of snow over the weekend, I guess I'll get a chance to see how it does in deeper snow, rather than a packed down slick surface.

I'm betting it won't burst into flame and incinerate me though!
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 11

Unread postby Plantagenet » Fri 12 Mar 2021, 01:44:37

And its not just the EV cars that catch on fire spontaneously.

Now a fire has broken out at the Tesla EV factory in Fremont California.

firefighters-respond-fire-tesla-fremont-factory

EV Batteries....EV Cars.....now even EV Factories.......are spontaneously catching on fire........SHEESH!
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 11

Unread postby dolanbaker » Fri 12 Mar 2021, 10:27:56

Plantagenet wrote:And its not just the EV cars that catch on fire spontaneously.

Now a fire has broken out at the Tesla EV factory in Fremont California.

firefighters-respond-fire-tesla-fremont-factory

EV Batteries....EV Cars.....now even EV Factories.......are spontaneously catching on fire........SHEESH!

It's still under construction!
Reports indicate there was a "heavy column of smoke coming from the north end of the factory that is currently under construction. It has since been learned the fire is located at one of the two Giga Press machines,"

As such, it does not have any EV's or Batteries in it!
Did you even bother to read the link (took me 20 seconds) or do you simply search for "tesla & fire" and dump the links here.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 11

Unread postby JuanP » Fri 12 Mar 2021, 11:09:45

dolanbaker wrote:
Plantagenet wrote:And its not just the EV cars that catch on fire spontaneously.

Now a fire has broken out at the Tesla EV factory in Fremont California.

firefighters-respond-fire-tesla-fremont-factory

EV Batteries....EV Cars.....now even EV Factories.......are spontaneously catching on fire........SHEESH!

It's still under construction!
Reports indicate there was a "heavy column of smoke coming from the north end of the factory that is currently under construction. It has since been learned the fire is located at one of the two Giga Press machines,"

As such, it does not have any EV's or Batteries in it!
Did you even bother to read the link (took me 20 seconds) or do you simply search for "tesla & fire" and dump the links here.


You mean they can't even finish building a Tesla factory before it catches fire? Wow! The problem is much worse than I thought! :lol:
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 11

Unread postby aadbrd » Fri 12 Mar 2021, 12:38:16

AdamB wrote:Let me know when you find that relationship between juvenile behavior and political affiliation


Left leaning kids are not going out of their way to key Teslas, sorry. I get that you are in denial that conservatives are openly hostile to green-tech and view it as symbolic of "the enemy" but you aren't going to have much luck proving it.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 11

Unread postby Plantagenet » Fri 12 Mar 2021, 20:02:55

dolanbaker wrote:
Plantagenet wrote: a fire has broken out at the Tesla EV factory in Fremont California.s.....now even EV Factories.......are spontaneously catching on fire........SHEESH!


As such, it does not have any EV's or Batteries in it!
Did you even bother to read the link (took me 20 seconds) or do you simply search for "tesla & fire" and dump the links here.


??????

Did you not even bother to read the words in my post?

Tesla is building a factory and it caught on fire. Its just a fact. The Tesla factory caught on fire.

Don't you understand what the words say? I can't make the English any simpler for you. I never mentioned batteries at the factory. Thats your fantasy. Don't try to saddle me with your dumb ideas.

The Tesla factory caught on fire.

Thats what I said. And its a fact.

Do you get it now?

OK...if you understand that simple sentence now lets try something just a bit more complicated.

I'm going to ask you to hold two different ideas in your mind at once.

Don't be frightened...other people can do this and I bet you can too!

Lets try it again and see if you can understand these two ideas.

1. Hyundai has just recalled 380,000 KIA EVs because the batteries showed a distressing tendency to catch on fire. They join several other EV manufacturers in recalling their EVs because the batteries catch on fire. When the batteries catch on the fire it burns up the cars. The risk is so severe Kia warned KIA EV owners to park away from their homes, so their cars wouldn't explode into flames and burn up their homes.

OK....do you understand those sentences?

If so, lets try the next idea....

2. Tesla (which manufactures EVs) is building an EV factory which caught on fire.

Got that? Do you understand those words.

Now.....

For the big payoff.......

Why do you think I made a post with those two ideas juxtaposed?

HINT: Do you know what the concept of irony is? If you don't then I suggest you look it up, because I'm now going to use the word "ironic" in a sentence. Consider yourself warned....

Ready? Here it comes...

Think about it....we've got EV batteries catching on fire.....and igniting the EV cars.....which can even ignite homes if someone is so foolish as to even park one of these EVs that have been recalled near their home. We've got a massive EV recall. One of several massive EV recalls due to this fire risk.

And....wait for it......now a frickin' EV factory has caught on fire.

How ironic.

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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 11

Unread postby AdamB » Fri 12 Mar 2021, 23:45:35

Plantagenet wrote:EV Batteries....EV Cars.....now even EV Factories.......are spontaneously catching on fire........SHEESH!


Any stats (from a reference that you've read of course, not the kind you make up the headline and then are contradicted by the article) on the number of EV battery fire deaths occur each year?
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 11

Unread postby AdamB » Fri 12 Mar 2021, 23:49:01

aadbrd wrote:
AdamB wrote:Let me know when you find that relationship between juvenile behavior and political affiliation


Left leaning kids are not going out of their way to key Teslas, sorry.


Really? And what is a "left leaning" kid? Having never met genuinely politically involved or woke children (kid being younger than teenager), where you have discovered this new type of pre-teen? Teens, as we all know, are all mostly silly and do dumb things as a matter of course, but this concept of children already having established a political leaning is interesting. If true.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 11

Unread postby aadbrd » Sat 13 Mar 2021, 10:13:30

AdamB wrote:Really? And what is a "left leaning" kid?


Greta Thunberg. Do you want me to go down the street and catalog every verifiable left leaning kid in the world to prove to you kids have clearly defined ideology (even if it's just what's been passed down to them by their family/community)?

AdamB wrote: Having never met genuinely politically involved or woke children (kid being younger than teenager)


The kids who key Teslas aren't younger than teenagers.

I just feel like you are bending over backwards to deny reality here. It would be far easier to own up to the fact conservative and anti-environmentalist are synonymous.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 11

Unread postby evilgenius » Sat 13 Mar 2021, 11:21:07

aadbrd wrote:
AdamB wrote:You mistake juvenile antics for politics


Politics ARE juvenile antics these days.

Image

It should be self evident that gas cars (or more appropriately, SUVs and trucks) are a pillar of American (male) culture and many feel threatened by EVs. This is also why things like the Hummer EV are being developed, to try to deprogram some from the idea that EVs are castrating penalty-vehicles.

Yeah, reading this, I was wondering why no one has commented on how fast electric cars really are? I believe they can do zero to sixty faster than the fastest ICE car. There may be one Porsche that contends for that title, but even it probably needs the right driver to pull that off. Once you start including all of the tech that the electric car companies have thought of adding, then you find a whole bunch of other reasons too. Tesla, for one, has certainly been a leader with R&D.

Maybe Tesla ought to introduce a special edition of one of its models, designed to go out street racing and destroy anything not electric out there. After they get good at that, they can make a truck to do the same thing. Once ICE musclecardom falls to an electric truck, then they will know it is time to switch.

There will still be problems with adoption, if the range is not good enough. But those problems wouldn't be coming from whether all-electric was sexy enough. I think infrastructure is going to be revealed as the greatest obstacle to full-scale adoption. I think cars will keep about three hundred miles between charges by the time that we get there. That's enough, if you can charge at home, in your garage. It's not, if you have to wait for your appointment time at some local charger.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 11

Unread postby aadbrd » Sat 13 Mar 2021, 11:52:36

Tradition trumps reason, which is why I cited conservative clinging to incandescent bulbs. You could make a (weak) argument that CFLs are harsh and have mercury but now with LEDs the arguments for incandescent and against green bulbs are very weak. But there are some who will cling to tradition for its own sake. Same thing with the internal combustion engine. Jeremy Clarkson types are sentimental about things like "exhaust note" and shifting through manual gearboxes. The specs of electric cars may beat gas cars but they can't deliver the intangibles, the anthropomorphic qualities of gas cars breathing in air and exhaling exhaust and growling. The 20th century was a case of transferring the culture of the horse over to that of the automobile. Electric cars are more akin to rolling computers and so are therefore harder to anthropomorphize, more sterile objects, so few moving parts. Some of the same people resisting electric cars may also decry the end of physical media. It's as much visceral as anything else.
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