Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 11

Discussions of conventional and alternative energy production technologies.

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 11

Unread postby AdamB » Wed 03 Mar 2021, 23:24:53

aadbrd wrote:Back on topic.

https://www.theverge.com/2021/3/3/22311 ... les-planes

I expect many more moves like this in the next few years. Momentum seems to be picking up.


Thank goodness they made a pledge!!!! Goodness knows a pledge is enough in todays world, where it is politically incorrect to even note that a pledge isn't an accomplishment!
StarvingPuutyTat says: I'm so confident in my TOTAL COLLAPSE is IMMINENT prediction that I stake my entire reputation on it. It will happen this year. - Aug 3-2020

Mustang19 says: Mods, I am just here to troll the trolls. I mean no harm.
User avatar
AdamB
Volunteer
Volunteer
 
Posts: 6449
Joined: Mon 28 Dec 2015, 17:10:26

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 11

Unread postby aadbrd » Thu 04 Mar 2021, 09:22:52

More plans, this time to build out the charging infrastructure in red-states of all places.

https://jalopnik.com/a-huge-chunk-of-am ... 1846398150
User avatar
aadbrd
Coal
Coal
 
Posts: 450
Joined: Sat 26 Dec 2020, 16:09:06

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 11

Unread postby AdamB » Thu 04 Mar 2021, 10:25:44

aadbrd wrote:More plans, this time to build out the charging infrastructure in red-states of all places.

https://jalopnik.com/a-huge-chunk-of-am ... 1846398150


I have a tough time even picking out EVs in some red states, let alone seeing charging stations at the usual places where they are at home.
StarvingPuutyTat says: I'm so confident in my TOTAL COLLAPSE is IMMINENT prediction that I stake my entire reputation on it. It will happen this year. - Aug 3-2020

Mustang19 says: Mods, I am just here to troll the trolls. I mean no harm.
User avatar
AdamB
Volunteer
Volunteer
 
Posts: 6449
Joined: Mon 28 Dec 2015, 17:10:26

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 11

Unread postby aadbrd » Sat 06 Mar 2021, 16:02:24

The point is that by laying down infrastructure ahead of time it addresses the chicken and the egg dilemma and conservative FUD about range-anxiety. Plus, there ARE environmentally-minded people in red states. They're just huddled in a few select cities like Atlanta.
User avatar
aadbrd
Coal
Coal
 
Posts: 450
Joined: Sat 26 Dec 2020, 16:09:06

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 11

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Sat 06 Mar 2021, 16:09:13

aadbrd wrote:The point is that by laying down infrastructure ahead of time it addresses the chicken and the egg dilemma and conservative FUD about range-anxiety. Plus, there ARE environmentally-minded people in red states. They're just huddled in a few select cities like Atlanta.

I disagree. They're all over the place. They're likely in the minority in most red states, but even in my dark red state of KY, they're all over the place -- even if the mask adverse, fact adverse, science adverse, rationality adverse folks outnumber them. Like in my city of Lexington, KY, for example. Or many cities in KY.

Before the pandemic, I was willing to just mainly ignore such folks, as they couldn't bother me much, at least in the short term. Now, given what's happened in the US re the pandemic (and may well keep happening, depending on anti-vaxxer prevalence, mutation induced more dangerous variants, etc), I see that for certain things, they can very well greatly injure all of society.

I keep hoping TPTB crack down with meaningful sanctions. For example: No vaccine? OK -- no attending movies, going out to eat, going to sports arenas or other croweded venues, et. Such folks can enjoy their "rights", but not in a way that screws up all of society with denying it herd immunity.

Of course, this probably won't happen, as long as TPTB mainly care about winning the next election vs. doing what is right for the society they serve, sad as that is.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
User avatar
Outcast_Searcher
COB
COB
 
Posts: 9413
Joined: Sat 27 Jun 2009, 21:26:42
Location: Central KY

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 11

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Sat 06 Mar 2021, 16:13:10

AdamB wrote:
aadbrd wrote:Back on topic.

https://www.theverge.com/2021/3/3/22311 ... les-planes

I expect many more moves like this in the next few years. Momentum seems to be picking up.


Thank goodness they made a pledge!!!! Goodness knows a pledge is enough in todays world, where it is politically incorrect to even note that a pledge isn't an accomplishment!

Well, it's not like they can actually magically DO it tomorrow. So what do you expect?

And them bankrupting themselves or vastly ruining their business isn't a reasonable response -- after all, management can be fired, and even today's stockholders can revolt if the short term pain looks bad enough.

And it's not like politicians don't make lots of mostly empty pledges. Look how wound up folks get over the Paris Climate Accords, for example -- with little to no consequences if the current PTB do little or nothing except join in the empty long term pledge fracas.

And by the way, this is much like the behavior of major competitor UPS. Lots of experiments at a small scale, which I think makes lots of sense. And I think it's well intended -- but it's just the equivalent of a pledge UNLESS the best greener initiatives are implemented at serious SCALE in future decades, to achieve meaningful results.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
User avatar
Outcast_Searcher
COB
COB
 
Posts: 9413
Joined: Sat 27 Jun 2009, 21:26:42
Location: Central KY

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 11

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Sat 06 Mar 2021, 16:15:33

The anti vaxers will only hurt themselves. A positive case carried into a room of vaccinated people or a work place none of the vaccinated people will get it or spread it. So these anti vaccine people may well self select themselves out of the gene pool and there is no need to worry about their unfounded fears for the rest of us.
User avatar
vtsnowedin
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 12051
Joined: Fri 11 Jul 2008, 03:00:00

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 11

Unread postby AdamB » Sat 06 Mar 2021, 17:03:30

aadbrd wrote:The point is that by laying down infrastructure ahead of time it addresses the chicken and the egg dilemma and conservative FUD about range-anxiety.


I once suffered from range anxiety, and it required no "conservative FUD" (not even sure what that is). My solution was EV's that also carried gasoline engines along, just in case. 7 or 8 years of that, and I was cured! Now I have one of those kinds of EVs, and one without a gas engine, now that I am cured.

aadbrd wrote:Plus, there ARE environmentally-minded people in red states. They're just huddled in a few select cities like Atlanta.


Driving an EV is hardly a requirement for the "environmentally minded", whatever that is. Amish folks maybe?
StarvingPuutyTat says: I'm so confident in my TOTAL COLLAPSE is IMMINENT prediction that I stake my entire reputation on it. It will happen this year. - Aug 3-2020

Mustang19 says: Mods, I am just here to troll the trolls. I mean no harm.
User avatar
AdamB
Volunteer
Volunteer
 
Posts: 6449
Joined: Mon 28 Dec 2015, 17:10:26

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 11

Unread postby aadbrd » Sat 06 Mar 2021, 22:45:58

AdamB wrote:Driving an EV is hardly a requirement for the "environmentally minded"


It is when it's been politicized and demonized by the right.
User avatar
aadbrd
Coal
Coal
 
Posts: 450
Joined: Sat 26 Dec 2020, 16:09:06

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 11

Unread postby AdamB » Sat 06 Mar 2021, 23:53:10

aadbrd wrote:
AdamB wrote:Driving an EV is hardly a requirement for the "environmentally minded"


It is when it's been politicized and demonized by the right.


See, I don't see EV ownership as politicized or demonized. I know that politicians occasionally rant about it and whatnot, and normal folks have their reasons, real or imagined, for impugning intent amongst others, but I just don't see it politicized or demonized. An economic advantage, I see that, something common among those higher up the socio-economic ladder perhaps? I get that, as ownership usually involves stable housing, a garage, things that aren't as common lower down the ladder perhaps?
StarvingPuutyTat says: I'm so confident in my TOTAL COLLAPSE is IMMINENT prediction that I stake my entire reputation on it. It will happen this year. - Aug 3-2020

Mustang19 says: Mods, I am just here to troll the trolls. I mean no harm.
User avatar
AdamB
Volunteer
Volunteer
 
Posts: 6449
Joined: Mon 28 Dec 2015, 17:10:26

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 11

Unread postby aadbrd » Sun 07 Mar 2021, 11:55:34

AdamB wrote:I don't see EV ownership as politicized or demonized.


Apparently you are blind to coal-rollers, ice-holes, and vandals?

https://insideevs.com/news/366799/ram-c ... sla-video/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leMeQmDg9t8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wy37eeVLEqM
User avatar
aadbrd
Coal
Coal
 
Posts: 450
Joined: Sat 26 Dec 2020, 16:09:06

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 11

Unread postby AdamB » Sun 07 Mar 2021, 12:01:47

aadbrd wrote:
AdamB wrote:I don't see EV ownership as politicized or demonized.


Apparently you are blind to coal-rollers, ice-holes, and vandals?

https://insideevs.com/news/366799/ram-c ... sla-video/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leMeQmDg9t8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wy37eeVLEqM


Apparently you are unware that I have been subjected to coal rolling, and while it required a cleaning of the car to get the unburnt fuel off the sheet metal, it didn't have any more to do with politics than the same morons who do burnouts leaving a stoplight, or the fools wheelieing down the interstate.

You mistake juvenile antics for politics methinks. Don't be silly...like vandals were invented only after EVs came along? You appear to be projecting on this topic for some reason. What is your beef with EVs?
StarvingPuutyTat says: I'm so confident in my TOTAL COLLAPSE is IMMINENT prediction that I stake my entire reputation on it. It will happen this year. - Aug 3-2020

Mustang19 says: Mods, I am just here to troll the trolls. I mean no harm.
User avatar
AdamB
Volunteer
Volunteer
 
Posts: 6449
Joined: Mon 28 Dec 2015, 17:10:26

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 11

Unread postby AdamB » Sun 07 Mar 2021, 12:12:10

The enthusiasm for EVs appears excessive.

For decades, enthusiasm for electric vehicles has failed to translate into market success. Though continued skepticism may be warranted, it’s important, naturally, to keep an open mind when considering whether this time really could be different.
StarvingPuutyTat says: I'm so confident in my TOTAL COLLAPSE is IMMINENT prediction that I stake my entire reputation on it. It will happen this year. - Aug 3-2020

Mustang19 says: Mods, I am just here to troll the trolls. I mean no harm.
User avatar
AdamB
Volunteer
Volunteer
 
Posts: 6449
Joined: Mon 28 Dec 2015, 17:10:26

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 11

Unread postby aadbrd » Sun 07 Mar 2021, 16:43:47

AdamB wrote:You mistake juvenile antics for politics


Politics ARE juvenile antics these days.

Image

It should be self evident that gas cars (or more appropriately, SUVs and trucks) are a pillar of American (male) culture and many feel threatened by EVs. This is also why things like the Hummer EV are being developed, to try to deprogram some from the idea that EVs are castrating penalty-vehicles.
User avatar
aadbrd
Coal
Coal
 
Posts: 450
Joined: Sat 26 Dec 2020, 16:09:06

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 11

Unread postby AdamB » Mon 08 Mar 2021, 00:56:28

aadbrd wrote:It should be self evident that gas cars (or more appropriately, SUVs and trucks) are a pillar of American (male) culture and many feel threatened by EVs. This is also why things like the Hummer EV are being developed, to try to deprogram some from the idea that EVs are castrating penalty-vehicles.


So this white male, gun owner, past owner full size pickups and SUVs, including a Hummer, needed deprogrammed to buy a Volt, 2 Gen I hybrids and my current 2 EVs? I owned some of these vehicle types simultaneously! And this ownership is analogous to castration? You sure you aren't projecting all of this?
StarvingPuutyTat says: I'm so confident in my TOTAL COLLAPSE is IMMINENT prediction that I stake my entire reputation on it. It will happen this year. - Aug 3-2020

Mustang19 says: Mods, I am just here to troll the trolls. I mean no harm.
User avatar
AdamB
Volunteer
Volunteer
 
Posts: 6449
Joined: Mon 28 Dec 2015, 17:10:26

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 11

Unread postby aadbrd » Mon 08 Mar 2021, 12:42:51

AdamB wrote:So this white male, gun owner, past owner full size pickups and SUVs, including a Hummer, needed deprogrammed


The exception proves the rule. Go outside of yourself and you'll see you are an outlier. Better yet, talk to some of your peers to try to deprogram them. But don't with a straight face try to deny that there is a stubborn right wing macho resistance to the EV wave just because you aren't personally part of the problem.
User avatar
aadbrd
Coal
Coal
 
Posts: 450
Joined: Sat 26 Dec 2020, 16:09:06

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 11

Unread postby AdamB » Mon 08 Mar 2021, 13:32:08

aadbrd wrote:
AdamB wrote:So this white male, gun owner, past owner full size pickups and SUVs, including a Hummer, needed deprogrammed


The exception proves the rule. Go outside of yourself and you'll see you are an outlier.


Really? You mean like the guy 2 houses down from me with the same color and generation of Leaf as I have? He has a nice modern Toyota 4Runner sitting beside it in the garage. Or maybe the guy who lives between us, with his Model X, you figure that was a 6 figure joke purchase on his part when he sold his Tahoe?

Look, I get it that there are exceptions to rules, but I am trying to figure out if you understand that broad brush claims based on something silly like political affiliation or skin color just don't cut it when there are as many exceptions as there are rules. So answer the question, how many EV owners do you talk to, live near, associate with, in order to determine that they are political correct Democans who celebrate alternative lifestyles and eat granola?

I can buy the idea that EVs are more of a suburban/yuppy/urban area thing, than a flyover country thing. For all sorts of reasons, some practical, some "good ol' boy" related. And that there is a correlation between flyover country and suburban/urban/economic activity locations and political affiliation. But correlation isn't causation, as you appear to be reaching for.

aardbrd wrote:
Better yet, talk to some of your peers to try to deprogram them. But don't with a straight face try to deny that there is a stubborn right wing macho resistance to the EV wave just because you aren't personally part of the problem.


Which peers? My friends and family in flyover "good ol' boy" country with liquid fuel powered pickups and SUVs, or my neighbors in suburbia with EVs? I deny nothing about macho whomevers, any more than I do politically correct "protect me from everything" liberal pansies. In a decade of EV ownership, I haven't met a single person who refuses to test drive my EV because of macho resistance....again...are you just projecting this nonsense because you know nothing about EV owners or macho right wingers in pickup trucks and yourself ride a bicycle, or what?

And of COURSE I'm part of "this" problem....get a clue....I DRIVE A CAR. Doesn't matter what kind, if you are any brand of "save the world" macho-doomer-prepper, you know that the only people doing the right thing are those who don't use computers or drive cars. You can find them in various states, we usually refer to them as "The Amish". All the rest of us are pretenders when it comes to putting our money where our mouths are.
StarvingPuutyTat says: I'm so confident in my TOTAL COLLAPSE is IMMINENT prediction that I stake my entire reputation on it. It will happen this year. - Aug 3-2020

Mustang19 says: Mods, I am just here to troll the trolls. I mean no harm.
User avatar
AdamB
Volunteer
Volunteer
 
Posts: 6449
Joined: Mon 28 Dec 2015, 17:10:26

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 11

Unread postby aadbrd » Tue 09 Mar 2021, 12:35:48

You're free to believe that red state America is open-minded about EVs. Obviously no amount of anecdotes to the contrary will pull you out of your over-optimism. Do I think minds can change? Yes, but that's going to take more work than you think. Mark my words.
User avatar
aadbrd
Coal
Coal
 
Posts: 450
Joined: Sat 26 Dec 2020, 16:09:06

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 11

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Tue 09 Mar 2021, 13:39:41

The perception that the red state's population is 100% right wing redneck religious is far from the truth. The majority in those states does reliably vote conservative but there are large minorities mixed right in and many of the conservative voters vote that way not for religious reasons but that they see the Democrats as corrupt and incompetent.
So EVs will be only slightly less popular in the red states then they are in the pure Blue ones.
That does not mean that I, a previous 4x4 pickup owner with a gun rack behind the seat is going to swap it in for a powder blue Prius or Leaf. :) .
On the other hand I did put my $100 down on a Cyber truck and am giving full consideration of replacing the Wife's Toyota Rave 4 SUV with a new Rave 4 E plug in hybrid so being an EV is not the problem. The problem if their is one at all is all the first offerings of EVs have been built around the small to midsize sedan body style and that alone makes them unpopular in rural areas with poor roads and long distances to drive. So as auto makers bring out models of EVs that are true pickups and SUVs that resistance will fade and it will come down to how convenient it is to charge up your EV and total range available per charge.
On another note I saw yesterday a startup company that is building stations where instead of charging your EV battery they swap it out for a charged one in less then seven minutes. Being tested on Uber cars in a couple of West coast cities at present. Interesting concept as just lie Blue Rhino LP tanks for your grill you never really own the battery , just the charge in it, and you will not have to worry about the total cycles your battery has gone through. ( All costs will still be in there of course just like the Blue Rhino's).
User avatar
vtsnowedin
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 12051
Joined: Fri 11 Jul 2008, 03:00:00

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 11

Unread postby AdamB » Tue 09 Mar 2021, 14:28:08

aadbrd wrote:You're free to believe that red state America is open-minded about EVs.


I didn't say that. You are now presuming the contrary of your position and strawmanning me with it. I only demonstrated that EV ownership doesn't look like your fantasyland assumption related to political motivation or an opposing macho position within a particular political group.

And you won't answer the question, and it is becoming suspicious. Your personal ideas on EVs might be...what? Exactly the macho white man routine you want to pretend is the same as every other macho white Republican leaning male?

aardbrd wrote:Obviously no amount of anecdotes to the contrary will pull you out of your over-optimism. Do I think minds can change? Yes, but that's going to take more work than you think. Mark my words.


You haven't provided an anecdote. I have provided them, as well as nearly a decade of EV/SUV/pickup truck white republican leaning male gun owner he-man-ness experience with them to boot. With some neighbors thrown in for good measure.

Minds change, yes. Minds change faster under stimuli of importance to the individual. With me, it was the economics of liquid fuels when matched against a suburban fuel mileage problem, my Armada got 11mpg around town, 17 on the highway. The highway I could live with, for it's capabilities. The city mileage I could not. Doesn't mean I wouldn't go get another one, if I thought fuel prices were going to drop back to $1.00/gallon and stay there. I don't. The idea of wrapping this all around some political axle is amusing at best, stupid as a stunt at worst.

So what is your experience with EVs? As opposed to pretending that Jan 6 Capitol insurrectionists represent all you need to know about being a functioning white male in this country (assuming you are one of course).
StarvingPuutyTat says: I'm so confident in my TOTAL COLLAPSE is IMMINENT prediction that I stake my entire reputation on it. It will happen this year. - Aug 3-2020

Mustang19 says: Mods, I am just here to troll the trolls. I mean no harm.
User avatar
AdamB
Volunteer
Volunteer
 
Posts: 6449
Joined: Mon 28 Dec 2015, 17:10:26

PreviousNext

Return to Energy Technology

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests