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THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 10

Discussions of conventional and alternative energy production technologies.

Re: MAP Update 2020, seeing perfectly now

Unread postby AdamB » Sun 29 Dec 2019, 16:55:56

vtsnowedin wrote: If you have used all the available battery how many miles of driving ICE does it take to top off the battery while driving?


I have to charge via regenerative braking manually, the car doesn't have a "please trickle charge the battery while driving" function. Which sucks.

So the procedure while driving on an interstate, or down a BIG hill (which we have plenty of here in Colorado), is you toggle the EV setting 3 times, which resets the state of charge level the computer then maintains.

So for example, you have 2% charge on the battery moving down the road at 80 mph. You lift on the throttle, and drop the shift lever into max regenerative charging, and while bringing the car down to parking lots speeds for an offramp, your state of charge will go up 3-4%. You then triple toggle the EV setting button, and presto, you now how 5-6% in the battery. So this over the course of a day and you arrive with a near full battery to putz around with at the hotel and restaurant and whatnot.

I've had the car up both Pikes Peak, Mt. Evans and Mt. Washington, and you want to have a full depleted battery on the way up, because you will completely charge it up coming down.
StarvingPuutyTat says: I'm so confident in my TOTAL COLLAPSE is IMMINENT prediction that I stake my entire reputation on it. It will happen this year. - Aug 3-2020
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Re: MAP Update 2020, seeing perfectly now

Unread postby AdamB » Sun 29 Dec 2019, 17:05:28

vtsnowedin wrote:I am considering replacing the wife's present Toyota Rav4 with a Rave4 prime PHEV that has 39 miles of EV range. She has two possible routes to and from work. The shortest is five miles long and drops over a thousand vertical feet in the last two miles. With regenerative braking the trip to work that way might be a plus battery wise. The other route home is nine miles long, avoids the highest hill and gains the thousand feet of altitude over much flatter grades. It will be interesting to see which round trip combination uses the least net energy. I suspect down the steep and short and back up the long and gradual makes the most sense but we will see. At any rate I'm going to have to put in a five to seven KW solar system to provide the juice.


Any decent downhill run is GREAT for charging. Any uphill run on EV only uphill, particularly with the heat on, will KILL range. So it becomes a management issue, when to use EV, when to kick it into ICE mode. The upside is that do it even half assed and your fuel mileage is just fantastic.

Running as a normal around town hybrid, I do 30-40mpg. Running rolling secondary roads in the 55-65 mph range, and I get 55 mpg, no EV shenanigans required. But you give me a steady down and up, and I use EV to maximize the glide at all times, and knowingly turn on the ICE to do what it does best...power the thing uphill...and as soon as you clear the hill, kick back into EV mode. 60 mpg is about as good as I can do, but I can do it. The game is, you are trying to arrive at your location with an empty battery, because then you can hopefully charge there, and start with a maximum battery setting to play this game all over again.

It is great fun if you think of driving your car like flying the space shuttle, maximizing different fuel loads and capabilities. With a gas tank, you don't have to worry about getting it wrong, because in the end if you drain the battery all the way down, your penalty is just using gasoline.

The wife doesn't play these games though. :(

She just keeps it simple, checks the battery meter to make sure she has enough to get to work, and it's my job to make sure the car has enough when she leaves for work. So if I don't do my job, she'll just kick in the ICE and screw up my mileage hopes and dreams.
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Re: MAP Update 2020, seeing perfectly now

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Sun 29 Dec 2019, 17:15:37

Sounds like a hassle. I suppose the car needs most of what the small ICE engine can do to climb hills etc. but on flat going I would think there would be some extra that could go to the battery. Room for improvement in future models . The industry is young yet.
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Re: MAP Update 2020, seeing perfectly now

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Sun 29 Dec 2019, 17:18:36

It just occurred to me that they probably don't do it that way because it would mess with their combined gas mileage figures.
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Re: MAP Update 2020, seeing perfectly now

Unread postby AdamB » Sun 29 Dec 2019, 17:35:38

vtsnowedin wrote:Sounds like a hassle. I suppose the car needs most of what the small ICE engine can do to climb hills etc. but on flat going I would think there would be some extra that could go to the battery. Room for improvement in future models . The industry is young yet.


My buddy has a Mitsubushi Outlander, AWD and 10 kWh pack. He has a button that allows electricity to be pulled when the ICE is running to fill up the battery over time. I wish I had that, but mine is old tech compared to some of this new stuff. He also claims 50 mpg on interstates, which I find difficult to believe. We are still talking about a 2 ton vehicle and SUV cross sectional areas, but he says he can do it, which is better than my interstate mileage on average. I'm a westerner though, we are doing 85mph on our interstates, he is east coast and stuck with the slow speeds on their interstates.

The wife doesn't care about any of this ICE stuff. She wants a Tesla and that's it.
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Re: MAP Update 2020, seeing perfectly now

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Mon 30 Dec 2019, 10:03:25

AdamB wrote:
The wife doesn't care about any of this ICE stuff. She wants a Tesla and that's it.

Well you all best be gittin her one if you like sleeping indoors. :-D
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 10

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Mon 30 Dec 2019, 12:43:49

The wife doesn't care about any of this ICE stuff. She wants a Tesla and that's it.


She does realize that the Tesla doesn't have Apple CarPlay or the Android app doesn't she? Jag I-Pace does. If she is an Apple person there is your selling point!! :). You might also want to look at service. Where I am the Jag/Land Rover dealer will actually come out and pick up your vehicle when servicing is necessary and when you call to check on progress the receptionist seems to have your number in their system and you get sent to the right service tech without getting passed around ten times...quite professional.

here is a side by each comparison:
https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/compare?trims=13684-398259_13785-399651

That being said I'm still a proponent of HEV....the new Range Rover fitting the bill for what I would need.
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Re: MAP Update 2020, seeing perfectly now

Unread postby AdamB » Mon 30 Dec 2019, 14:02:25

vtsnowedin wrote:
AdamB wrote:
The wife doesn't care about any of this ICE stuff. She wants a Tesla and that's it.

Well you all best be gittin her one if you like sleeping indoors. :-D


Indeed. :(
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 10

Unread postby asg70 » Mon 30 Dec 2019, 15:21:18

If you can hold her off for a year or so, there will be a bunch more EVs available shortly. This includes another Tesla (the Model Y). I think for anyone who can wait, it pays to do so if the existing cars aren't exactly what you're looking for.

BOLD PREDICTIONS
-Billions are on the verge of starvation as the lockdown continues. (yoshua, 5/20/20)

HALL OF SHAME:
-Short welched on a bet and should be shunned.
-Frequent-flyers should not cry crocodile-tears over climate-change.
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Re: MAP Update 2020, seeing perfectly now

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Mon 30 Dec 2019, 16:59:04

AdamB wrote: But no, not a word about fuel stabilizers. However, the car itself, on occasion, will decide to turn on, and puts a sign of "Engine Maintenance" on the dashboard when it does.

The car is smarter than my dealer.

Thanks. I've noticed a variety of discussions where the consensus seemed to be that the cars take care of things themselves, between such engine maintenance cycles and the positive pressure, helping keep out moisture, unlike, say, a lawn mower gas can. (In my experience, with mowers, fuel stabilizers are an absolute Godsend re combating the effects of ethanol on small engine parts).

And your engine maintenance cycle experience is consistent with reports on the Volt.

Re dumb car salesmen, one wonders how they make a living. NO DOUBT, they very often haven't read the owner's manuals. (Not all, but many). It's too bad they generally change jobs more often than I buy new cars, even if I manage to FIND a brand / dealer / salesperson I like.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 10

Unread postby AdamB » Mon 30 Dec 2019, 20:52:06

asg70 wrote:If you can hold her off for a year or so, there will be a bunch more EVs available shortly. This includes another Tesla (the Model Y). I think for anyone who can wait, it pays to do so if the existing cars aren't exactly what you're looking for.


This is the core component of my current plan. I know the flood is coming, I need for it to arrive so I can overwhelm her with choices and argue how 3 or 5 other ones are better.
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Re: MAP Update 2020, seeing perfectly now

Unread postby AdamB » Mon 30 Dec 2019, 20:55:22

Outcast_Searcher wrote:Re dumb car salesmen, one wonders how they make a living. NO DOUBT, they very often haven't read the owner's manuals. (Not all, but many). It's too bad they generally change jobs more often than I buy new cars, even if I manage to FIND a brand / dealer / salesperson I like.


My favorite car salesman was an accountant. Ford GT Convertible. I went back to him for another 2 or 3, and then he killed himself. There was quite a back story there.
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Re: MAP Update 2020, seeing perfectly now

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Mon 30 Dec 2019, 21:21:11

AdamB wrote:
Outcast_Searcher wrote:Re dumb car salesmen, one wonders how they make a living. NO DOUBT, they very often haven't read the owner's manuals. (Not all, but many). It's too bad they generally change jobs more often than I buy new cars, even if I manage to FIND a brand / dealer / salesperson I like.


My favorite car salesman was an accountant. Ford GT Convertible. I went back to him for another 2 or 3, and then he killed himself. There was quite a back story there.

Naah you were such a bad customer you drove him to it. :roll:
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Re: MAP Update 2020, seeing perfectly now

Unread postby AdamB » Mon 30 Dec 2019, 22:12:50

vtsnowedin wrote:
AdamB wrote:My favorite car salesman was an accountant. Ford GT Convertible. I went back to him for another 2 or 3, and then he killed himself. There was quite a back story there.

Naah you were such a bad customer you drove him to it. :roll:


Even saying that makes me feel bad. I talked to some of his co-workers afterwards, it had something to do with an ex and the kids and a bottle.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 10

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Tue 31 Dec 2019, 07:40:15

My apologies :oops: Sometimes a snappy line is better left unsaid.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 10

Unread postby asg70 » Sun 12 Jan 2020, 15:21:32

Well, if this doesn't win over the rednecks, nothing will.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/11/cars/gm- ... index.html

BOLD PREDICTIONS
-Billions are on the verge of starvation as the lockdown continues. (yoshua, 5/20/20)

HALL OF SHAME:
-Short welched on a bet and should be shunned.
-Frequent-flyers should not cry crocodile-tears over climate-change.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 10

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Mon 13 Jan 2020, 01:13:55

Yeah I don't think so. The Hummer they marketed to the masses wasn't much like the vehicle used by the military. It was an urbanized pile of junk in my opinion (especially the H3). Too big to park anywhere, too heavy, unstable and not nimble enough offroad, but I guess attractive to the drug dealers.
As I've said before Land Rover, BMW, Audi are all now coming out with SUV's based on their normal proven design that will either be EV or HEV. I'll go for reliability and history any day of the week. If Mercedes comes out with an EV based on their G wagon design then that will be the creme de la creme to my mind.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 10

Unread postby asg70 » Mon 13 Jan 2020, 11:33:05

rockdoc123 wrote:I don't think so. The Hummer they marketed to the masses wasn't much like the vehicle used by the military.


Did those who bought it care? Were they more likely to buy a foreign brand like Land Rover?

I have a hard time believing the new Hummer will be the same exact platform, BTW. Wait and see what they actually come up with.

BOLD PREDICTIONS
-Billions are on the verge of starvation as the lockdown continues. (yoshua, 5/20/20)

HALL OF SHAME:
-Short welched on a bet and should be shunned.
-Frequent-flyers should not cry crocodile-tears over climate-change.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 10

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Sat 18 Jan 2020, 14:02:34

asg70 wrote:
I have a hard time believing the new Hummer will be the same exact platform, BTW. Wait and see what they actually come up with.

I would expect it to be a new design but keep some resemblance to a military hummer on the outside at least. Tesla's Cyber truck claims 16 inches of clearance when off roading. That will be a benchmark competing designs will want to match but I don't see that as being that difficult once you dispense with the two differential pumpkins and the transfer case of a traditional 4X4.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 10

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Sat 18 Jan 2020, 16:40:14

rockdoc123 wrote:Yeah I don't think so. The Hummer they marketed to the masses wasn't much like the vehicle used by the military. It was an urbanized pile of junk in my opinion (especially the H3). Too big to park anywhere, too heavy, unstable and not nimble enough offroad, but I guess attractive to the drug dealers.

If the ICE hummer wasn't a GREAT example of why we need a serious CO2 tax, at least on excessive hydrocarbon burning, I dont know what would be.

(In my admittedly limited, anecdotal experience, virtually all the interest in these for city dwellers was just SHOWING OFF a big, stupid mass of metal. As for me, I was SO unimpressed).

For those who just hate any new taxes, even if they're offset with reduced income taxes -- fine, then tax credits for fuel sipping equipment would be another way to go -- but things have to be PAID FOR, so that implies more taxes elsewhere -- which the usual suspects generally can't begin to agree on, in my experience.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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