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The Desperate Airline Tactics Thread (merged)

How to save energy through both societal and individual actions.

Re: Airlines May Start Treating Passengers `Like Freight'

Unread postby seldom_seen » Fri 06 Jun 2008, 00:51:59

Problem is the airlines have those scales rigged. I've seen it first hand.

You'd have to bring your own scale for comparison. Otherwise you'd have to subpoena the "scale expert" to make sure it's calibrated.

Bottom line is simply, if you're going to fly now and in to the future, be ready to bleed out your wallet.
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Re: Airlines May Start Treating Passengers `Like Freight'

Unread postby heroineworshipper » Fri 06 Jun 2008, 01:31:24

Impossible, since checked baggage is going away. Overnight shipping of baggage is going to be standard. People aren't going to spend 12 hours in FedEx sorting machines of course.
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Re: Airlines May Start Treating Passengers `Like Freight'

Unread postby CrudeAwakening » Fri 06 Jun 2008, 01:51:42

I think tickets should be discounted if you are sat next to a "person of voluminous girth". There's a market externality that's never addressed.
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Re: Airlines May Start Treating Passengers `Like Freight'

Unread postby seldom_seen » Fri 06 Jun 2008, 01:55:09

CrudeAwakening wrote:I think tickets should be discounted if you are sat next to a "person of voluminous girth". There's a market externality that's never addressed.

heh.
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Re: Airlines May Start Treating Passengers `Like Freight'

Unread postby VMarcHart » Sat 07 Jun 2008, 13:11:32

Agreed that we can't subsidise others' life-styles.

How many of us involuntarily carry more body weigh than we should? How many of us bring on a plane just the essential for the trip?

The other day, on a 3-hour full flight, I asked to switch from a middle seat to window or aisle. "You're lucky," said the clerk. But that was a catch; it was 38A, the last row, where the seat reclines less, and the fuselage funnels. "Oh well," I said. I asked for it, now bite the bullet. I sat down, the plane got full and the 2 seats next to me were empty. Nice, right? Then comes the last 2 passengers, a couple, larger than life, with their 18-month daughter, the teddy bear, diaper bag, snack bag, their own carry-on's, magazines, food, etc. But wait, their cute little daugther --she was indeed adorable-- had to sit in the lap of the parent sitting next to me.

Nice! Thanks! Three hours of subsidising others' life-style.

I'm sure many readers are already saying, "hey, BCBG, why didn't you buy 1st class?"

The thing is, airlines incur an operating cost with the weigh of the airplane. The more stuff we bring into the plane, ie, laptops, clothes, toys, food, etc, the heavier it gets, the more fuel it requires, the dirtier it gets, the more it costs.

So, yes, let the airlines treat us like cargo, since we cannot seem to act not like cargo.
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Re: Airlines May Start Treating Passengers `Like Freight'

Unread postby wisconsin_cur » Sat 14 Jun 2008, 06:41:58

Link

It's not just the loss of free peanuts, pretzels and sodas that's at stake. Analysts say travelers should brace themselves for a new world of airline travel brought about as the industry tries to keep pace with escalating oil prices. They say travelers should expect fewer flights, for planes to get more crowded and for airlines to steadily jack up ticket prices.


But in the fall, airlines will eliminate hundreds of flights. Analysts say the upcoming capacity cutbacks mean airlines will provide fewer choices outside the largest cities and fewer flight frequencies and nonstops. On Thursday, Continental Airlines said it would discontinue or reduce flights to dozens of cities, including flights between Dulles International Airport and the airline's hub in Houston. The airline said in September that it would close stations in nine U.S. cities, including Green Bay, Wis.; Palm Springs, Calif.; and Reno, Nev. Airline experts say service to these smaller cities costs airlines the most because too many seats go empty.

As airlines focus on flights on profitable big-city routes, analysts say they expect a sharp increase in air traffic to larger airports, exacerbating congestion in places such as New York.

Leisure travelers will feel the pinch first, airline analysts say. Airlines are pulling out of Florida cities and Las Vegas, where customers tend to get discounted tickets that leave little room for company profits. Terry Trippler, owner of Minneapolis-based TripplerTravel.com, expects business travelers to feel the changes, too.


Mark DuPont, vice president of airport services at American Airlines, said that the new luggage fees will bring in "several hundred million" annually but that they still won't be enough to offset jet fuel costs. "There is no silver bullet, nor is this the silver bullet," he said. "The airline industry is not built on $125-plus-barrel" oil, DuPont said.
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Re: Airlines May Start Treating Passengers `Like Freight'

Unread postby Poordogabone » Sat 14 Jun 2008, 11:38:18

Some of the comments on other forums on that topic indicate that a lot of people don't make the connection between fuel consumption and weight as astonishing as it may sound.
Some of the comments :
Code: Select all
Ridiculous! Insane, idiotic and stupid! --Steve

Code: Select all
I am in shock! Let us put this into perspective, if we allow an airline to charge based on a weight class what happens when they start charging based on the color of hair? How about the color of eyes? How about the size of feet? This is REALITY, it can happen, and we have to be unbiased, rather you be 100lbs, 400lbs, blonde, or brunette. --1
I think it's discriminating. The airlines will definitely lose business. --Joan

And my favorite:
Code: Select all
by thePizzaLady on Jun 04, 2008 at 8:24 PM
yes, I feel it is discrimination.
I also don’t see how it costs more (fuel-wise), the distance remains the same.
My guess is, if this passes, you’ll have a ton of sumo wrestlers very upset :)
Sheri

I think the airlines will have a tough time educating people for this to be implemented but do they really have a choice ?
Will lighter people accept to subsidize the ticket of heavier people when fuel prices will make flying almost unaffordable for the average Joe ?
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Re: Airlines May Start Treating Passengers `Like Freight'

Unread postby MarkJ » Sat 14 Jun 2008, 12:16:46

I mentioned in another thread that in the future passenger miles per gallon/charge and/or ton-miles per gallon will become a more common way of thinking since people and their possessions are effectively freight.

Most of the males in my family well over 6 feet tall, well over 200 pounds and built like linebackers. I wouldn't take offense if I was charged extra due to weight and/or size. It's nothing personal, just business.
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Re: Airlines May Start Treating Passengers `Like Freight'

Unread postby HamRadioRocks » Tue 24 Jun 2008, 22:35:25

I hope this means I get a discount, because I only weigh around 145 pounds.

Famished, underweight supermodels would LOVE this plan, because they'd get to fly for free.

Jay Leno joked that the Olsen twins would get paid to fly under such a plan.
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Re: Airlines May Start Treating Passengers `Like Freight'

Unread postby joelcolorado » Wed 25 Jun 2008, 10:14:24

The jets in use today were designed for ppl weighing 150 lbs and you can see that in the size of the seats. So the weight to power ratio is a big deal especially with the amount of luggage people take these days.

I believe in the beginning of airline flight, a carry on was about it as ppl didnt go for extended stays, generally. It was too expensive to travel for pleasure for most folks.

I know if i have to sit next to a big person, its very uncomfortable for me as they lap over on top of me next to them. I feel sorry for ppl who are like that but feel sorry for me too. Get one on each side and you are squashed.
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Re: Airlines May Start Treating Passengers `Like Freight'

Unread postby eastbay » Wed 25 Jun 2008, 10:27:48

Poordogabone wrote:Bloomberg
June 3 (Bloomberg) -- Imagine two scales at the airline ticket counter, one for your bags and one for you. The price of a ticket depends upon the weight of both. That may not be so far-fetched. "You listen to the airline CEOs, and nothing is beyond their imagination,'' said David Castelveter, a spokesman for the Air Transport Association, a Washington, D.C.-based trade group.
If that isn't a giant neon light flashing "peak oil is here", I don't know what is.

Actually, taking obese passengers into consideration is happening already.
I was booked to fly on a 30 passenger local commuter prop plane earlier this week with my wife and two kids. It allowed only 28 people due to 'weight restrictions'. Two of the passengers allowed onboard were obese. Many others were simply fat. That's why two seats were empty. Since we were a family of four, we didn't board and two single passengers did instead. Rather that wait until evening for the next flight we rented a car and drove the 160 miles.

Fat people forced us to rent a car. We all pay a 'fat tax'. At some point this luxury won't be tolerated. I'll have no problem if ticket prices are set on a sliding scale based on the passengers weight.
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Re: Airlines May Start Treating Passengers `Like Freight'

Unread postby criticalmass » Tue 28 Oct 2008, 15:52:56

Maybe obesity isn't funny, but come on... this is funny stuff!

Lose weight or pay more. I hardly see it as a loss of rights to have to pay more if you take up two seats worth of girth or mass.

:D
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Re: Airlines May Start Treating Passengers `Like Freight'

Unread postby Ferretlover » Tue 28 Oct 2008, 16:11:20

It seems as though the airlines only want perfect, compliant passengers. Look next to seeing no babies or small children allowed because they can't help rescue themselves or they are too disruptive. Then, no elderly because they might need medical attention during the flight. No one with any chronic illness or condition (disabled) for the same reason. No English-first-language on US flights because they might not understand a direction given by the stewards/stewardesses.
Nothing like training the masses to realize that they must exercise restraint in moving around the country.
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Re: Airlines May Start Treating Passengers `Like Freight'

Unread postby mos6507 » Tue 28 Oct 2008, 20:08:05

Won't the airlines won't heal their finances some with the pullback in oil prices?
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Re: Airlines May Start Treating Passengers `Like Freight'

Unread postby Aaron » Wed 29 Oct 2008, 11:00:05

I fly frequently all over the globe for work.

I wore a bruise on my right side for a few weeks, from a 3 hour flight next to an obese man in the seat to my left. He took up almost half my seat because he overflowed his. Towards the end of the flight I couldn't help involuntary wincing when I shifted in my seat.

As we exited the plane, he quietly apologized for crowding me.

I was torn...

One the one hand, I doubt very much his weight represents a deliberate choice to be overweight. On the other hand, why should I be physically punished for a stranger's physical condition?

Should the stranger be punished for either a genetic condition causing his obesity, or a lack of will-power in avoiding overeating?

Air travel must be profitable... or there won't be any,

It's a tough question with many nuanced issues.

I rather suspect, as already noted this thread, that the reality of transport fuel costs will force the issue eventually.

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The problem is, of course, that not only is economics bankrupt, but it has always been nothing more than politics in disguise... economics is a form of brain damage.

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Re: Airlines May Start Treating Passengers `Like Freight'

Unread postby Roy » Wed 29 Oct 2008, 11:46:40

I think the idea of charging airline passengers by the their weight and the weight of the luggage is fair.

If that were the case, perhaps peope would be a little more thoughtful when packing for an air trip.

I know I would. If I ever had to get back on a plane again, which I will not do of my own freewill.
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Re: Airlines May Start Treating Passengers `Like Freight'

Unread postby StuckInPhilly » Wed 29 Oct 2008, 15:22:10

Aaron wrote:I fly frequently all over the globe for work.
I wore a bruise on my right side for a few weeks, from a 3 hour flight next to an obese man in the seat to my left. He took up almost half my seat because he overflowed his. Towards the end of the flight I couldn't help involuntary wincing when I shifted in my seat.
As we exited the plane, he quietly apologized for crowding me.
I was torn...
One the one hand, I doubt very much his weight represents a deliberate choice to be overweight. On the other hand, why should I be physically punished for a stranger's physical condition? Should the stranger be punished for either a genetic condition causing his obesity, or a lack of will-power in avoiding overeating?

I've known quite a few of these people and believe me when I say it takes concerted effort to get that large.

20 or 30 pounds as the years stroll on is not that difficult but the truly obese know what they're doing and know that the modern world will largely adjust for them.

Someone obese from a glandular condition can present documentation.
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Re: Airlines May Start Treating Passengers `Like Freight'

Unread postby lowem » Wed 29 Oct 2008, 23:05:36

If the airlines want to treat passengers like freight, they could stuff them into the 747 freighter/cargo model - they will squeeze in more people that way. Bang for the buck. :lol:
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Re: Airlines May Start Treating Passengers `Like Freight'

Unread postby gwmss15 » Thu 30 Oct 2008, 15:25:22

If they are going to charge extra for large/heavy passenegrs then they should provide a larger seat to go with that extra charge otherwise its unfair and unjustifiable. This can be a seat with the same as any other economy seat just with more width or legroom (tall passengers) then charging extra is fine but not a business class rates.

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"Since we were a family of four, we didn't board and two single passengers did instead. Rather that wait until evening for the next flight we rented a car and drove the 160 miles. "

Why did you not just take an intercity commuter train or even an intercity express bus flying that short 160 mile distance is a real waste of fuel. The flight should not exist its too short.
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Re: Airlines May Start Treating Passengers `Like Freight'

Unread postby TamilFarmer » Thu 30 Oct 2008, 22:31:16

This would be another justification for our Air India to sack overweight flight attendants - additional fuel costs. They have suspended scores of overweight flight attendants, based on their BMI, justified under safety considerations, and the courts have upheld their right to do so.

Also, most national carriers from the European Union and Asia, now, are very strictly enforcing the weight limits of checked and hand luggages. And, any excesses in the weights of the hand luggages, are being charged at the gate.

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