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The Desperate Airline Tactics Thread (merged)

How to save energy through both societal and individual actions.

Re: IS CHARGING PEOPLE BY WEIGHT FEASIBLE FOR AIRLINES?

Unread postby kpeavey » Mon 02 Jun 2008, 21:14:59

any chance you are a lardass?
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Re: IS CHARGING PEOPLE BY WEIGHT FEASIBLE FOR AIRLINES?

Unread postby arretium » Tue 03 Jun 2008, 00:18:57

kpeavey wrote:any chance you are a lardass?


I assume you are referring to me and my post?

If so, you do realize that your inference is offensive right? I'm sure that didn't crossed your mind and you figured I was a lard ass and you didn't care. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt there. I will however point out that your inference is totally irrelevant.

If I was, would you dismiss my post?

If I'm not, does it give my voice more credibility?

Sorry, I'm a normal guy 6',1", 210, I'm an old 35+ something guy now, but still run 3 miles in under 30 minutes.

Do I get more credibility now that you know I'm not? Or are you one of those anorexic gay males that believe male beauty is no more than 140 lbs?
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Re: IS CHARGING PEOPLE BY WEIGHT FEASIBLE FOR AIRLINES?

Unread postby Niagara » Tue 03 Jun 2008, 09:30:09

arretium wrote:Charging people for weight is a boneheaded idea.

Why is it a boneheaded idea?

You're suggesting we shouldn't discriminate against anyone and charge everyone the same price? A nice "warm and fuzzy" policy?

Ok, by that logic the overweight, middle-aged, alcoholic, sky-diving, racecar driving, diabetic smoker with full-blown AIDS pays the same life insurance premium as the young healthy-living risk avoider?

Lifting 300lbs of lard to 35000' altitude requires an additional 14 MJ of energy. Energy that costs money.
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Re: IS CHARGING PEOPLE BY WEIGHT FEASIBLE FOR AIRLINES?

Unread postby arretium » Tue 03 Jun 2008, 15:30:19

Niagara wrote:
arretium wrote:Charging people for weight is a boneheaded idea.

Why is it a boneheaded idea?

You're suggesting we shouldn't discriminate against anyone and charge everyone the same price? A nice "warm and fuzzy" policy?

Ok, by that logic the overweight, middle-aged, alcoholic, sky-diving, racecar driving, diabetic smoker with full-blown AIDS pays the same life insurance premium as the young healthy-living risk avoider?

Lifting 300lbs of lard to 35000' altitude requires an additional 14 MJ of energy. Energy that costs money.


Are we talking about insurance or airfare? I'm talking about airfare. With respect to airfare, I'm against charging more for people's weight. I think it's a bad idea. I'm not saying there isn't logic behind your position, because I see the logic, I just disagree. Using your logic, my 2 year old should pay less since she weighs less than 30 lbs. So should my 5 year old.

There's already an industry practice to charge on a per seat basis. This makes sense. If someone takes up two seats, then, as I indicated above, they would need to pay for two seats. However, nickeling and diming people for 5 lbs of weight they carry on their body only plays at the margins. It will also offend too many people. Everyone in an airline counter is going to know why that woman paid $ 450 and the person behind her paid $ 200. They are going to look at the two and judge. Eventually, you'll end up with legislation outlawing the practice in the U.S. And do we really need more legislation in this country? Charging for luggage makes more sense in my view.
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Re: IS CHARGING PEOPLE BY WEIGHT FEASIBLE FOR AIRLINES?

Unread postby idomar » Tue 03 Jun 2008, 15:49:38

I like the idea of charging people by their weight, however going by shear mass is not enough.

Like Niagara said "my 2 year old should pay less since she weighs less than 30 lbs. So should my 5 year old."

It should be done on the BMI,BMI Wiki that way those that fit into the overweight, obese, mordbidly obese will pay more for their fare. Those in the 'normal' weight to height range will pay the normal fare.

It should also apply to long distace coach trips, and even trains.

The 'oh crap, that fat guy is going to sit by me, isn't he' feeling is one that i could stand knowing that I paid waaaaaay less than him for the same trip. might make them think twice about that second pasty.
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Re: IS CHARGING PEOPLE BY WEIGHT FEASIBLE FOR AIRLINES?

Unread postby Cashmere » Tue 03 Jun 2008, 16:00:39

It should be done on the BMI,BMI Wiki that way those that fit into the overweight, obese, mordbidly obese will pay more for their fare. Those in the 'normal' weight to height range will pay the normal fare.


Wow, socialism at its finest right there.


I went to a restaurant with 20 people. The 105 pound healthy woman ate only what a 105 pound woman should eat. The 260 pound healthy male ate 4 times as much, which is what he should eat.

They should both pay the same amount?

Socialist.
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Re: IS CHARGING PEOPLE BY WEIGHT FEASIBLE FOR AIRLINES?

Unread postby Denny » Tue 03 Jun 2008, 16:01:12

Just let market forces dtermie if its a good idea. Obviouslyu, the price, by mathematics, should be a composite of the seat occupancy and the weight. If an airline figures they can compete by offering a sliding scale, they will, if not, they won't.

There is no real human rights issue here. No more than the insurance pricing formaulas mentioned. Flying is not a necessity of life.
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Re: IS CHARGING PEOPLE BY WEIGHT FEASIBLE FOR AIRLINES?

Unread postby dinopello » Tue 03 Jun 2008, 16:06:36

My support of this idea isn't based on any value judgement of large, fat, heavy people vs tiny, skinny, light people. It simply is a matter of paying for what you consume. It costs more and uses more fuel to transport more weight. I expect to pay more for shipping if I'm FedExing a cast iron cookware set versus a computer memory chip.

If I were a rickshaw runner, you bet your ass I would charge more to haul around a 400 lb dude than I would a 90lb little girl.
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Re: IS CHARGING PEOPLE BY WEIGHT FEASIBLE FOR AIRLINES?

Unread postby idomar » Tue 03 Jun 2008, 16:10:29

Cashmere wrote:
Wow, socialism at its finest right there.


I went to a restaurant with 20 people. The 105 pound healthy woman ate only what a 105 pound woman should eat. The 260 pound healthy male ate 4 times as much, which is what he should eat.

They should both pay the same amount?

Socialist.


You have just backed up my point, pay for what you use!

on a plane the 205lb person uses MORE fuel to transport than the 105lb person.

So they should pay the same?
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Re: IS CHARGING PEOPLE BY WEIGHT FEASIBLE FOR AIRLINES?

Unread postby Cashmere » Tue 03 Jun 2008, 16:21:41

idomar wrote:
Cashmere wrote:
Wow, socialism at its finest right there.


I went to a restaurant with 20 people. The 105 pound healthy woman ate only what a 105 pound woman should eat. The 260 pound healthy male ate 4 times as much, which is what he should eat.

They should both pay the same amount?

Socialist.


You have just backed up my point, pay for what you use!

on a plane the 205lb person uses MORE fuel to transport than the 105lb person.

So they should pay the same?



Your original quote seemed to imply that all fit people should pay the same price.

That's socialism.

All should pay their weight, regardless of fitness.
Massive Human Dieoff <b>must</b> occur as a result of Peak Oil. Many more than half will die. It will occur everywhere, including where <b>you</b> live. If you fail to recognize this, then your odds of living move toward the "going to die" group.
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Re: IS CHARGING PEOPLE BY WEIGHT FEASIBLE FOR AIRLINES?

Unread postby Bman4k1 » Tue 03 Jun 2008, 17:01:16

It will be done someday. I don't see the issue here, if we have to pay by mass for packages, we should be prepared to pay by mass for ourselves. After PO airlines will be almost dead anyways, this at least gives them a chance.
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Re: IS CHARGING PEOPLE BY WEIGHT FEASIBLE FOR AIRLINES?

Unread postby misterno » Tue 03 Jun 2008, 17:50:46

Almost everyone agrees on airlines should be charging based on weight

Yet there is no relative news on the media about this. Howcome they don't think about it. There must be something that prevents them to do so that we do not know.
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Re: IS CHARGING PEOPLE BY WEIGHT FEASIBLE FOR AIRLINES?

Unread postby threadbear » Tue 03 Jun 2008, 18:01:30

There's no way an obese person is going to be able to squeeze into one of those seats. I'm sure they make up for the fuel burned to carry the overweight around, by virtue of the fact that many of the morbidly obese MUST take business class to be even minimally comfortable.
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Re: IS CHARGING PEOPLE BY WEIGHT FEASIBLE FOR AIRLINES?

Unread postby jbrovont » Tue 03 Jun 2008, 18:30:59

misterno wrote:So why don't they do it? Maybe it is against the law?


Probably mostly just bad for PR, and they're afraid of the backlash from the "political incorrectness."

Seems reasonable to me though. As it stands, they probably just figure the average fuel cost per customer based on previous flights, meaning little people are subsidizing big people to fly cheaper.
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Re: IS CHARGING PEOPLE BY WEIGHT FEASIBLE FOR AIRLINES?

Unread postby idomar » Tue 03 Jun 2008, 20:52:01

Cashmere wrote:
Your original quote seemed to imply that all fit people should pay the same price.

That's socialism.

All should pay their weight, regardless of fitness.


BMI has nothing to do with 'fitness' it is a height to weight ratio calculation

mass (kg)/height(M)2

thus this does not penalise the lofty, like me at 1.87m and 80kgs where as a chunky short arse at say 1.65m weighing the same 80kgs would be classed as overweight and therefore pay more.
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Re: IS CHARGING PEOPLE BY WEIGHT FEASIBLE FOR AIRLINES?

Unread postby lper100km » Tue 03 Jun 2008, 21:31:06

Back to the future.

In the early days of long distance passenger flight, both the passenger and their luggage were weighed at check in and in public at that. Can't say if the ticket price was based on the total though, or if a premium was paid for 'overweight'. I'm sure aircraft take-off weight was the prime consideration. Sorry sir, yes we have plenty seats available but we have exceeded our TO weight because of this obesity convention in LA.
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Re: IS CHARGING PEOPLE BY WEIGHT FEASIBLE FOR AIRLINES?

Unread postby SchroedingersCat » Tue 03 Jun 2008, 23:04:55

Airlines May Start Treating Passengers `Like Freight'

June 3 (Bloomberg) -- Imagine two scales at the airline ticket counter, one for your bags and one for you. The price of a ticket depends upon the weight of both.

That may not be so far-fetched.

``You listen to the airline CEOs, and nothing is beyond their imagination,'' said David Castelveter, a spokesman for the Air Transport Association, a Washington, D.C.-based trade group. ``They have already begun to think exotically. Nothing is not under the microscope.'' He declined to discuss what any individual airline might be contemplating, including charging passengers based on weight.
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Airlines May Start Treating Passengers `Like Freight'

Unread postby Poordogabone » Thu 05 Jun 2008, 21:55:20

Bloomberg
June 3 (Bloomberg) -- Imagine two scales at the airline ticket counter, one for your bags and one for you. The price of a ticket depends upon the weight of both.
That may not be so far-fetched.
'You listen to the airline CEOs, and nothing is beyond their imagination,'' said David Castelveter, a spokesman for the Air Transport Association, a Washington, D.C.-based trade group.

If that isn't a giant neon light flashing "peak oil is here", I don't know what is.
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Re: Airlines May Start Treating Passengers `Like Freight'

Unread postby IanC » Thu 05 Jun 2008, 22:30:39

Wow, what a clever group we are! We were just discussing this on a thread a few days ago. We even came up with a method of using a scale at the check-in counter to measure relative blubber. The time has come!

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Re: Airlines May Start Treating Passengers `Like Freight'

Unread postby misterno » Thu 05 Jun 2008, 23:05:21

Yeah, I was the one who opened that topic. But I think it will be a while before airlines start doing this. Consumers would not like it, ethics will be involved and all that jazz.

But I think it should be implemented because it is fair.
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