[DK1]

[Note: The following is in Danish. English to follow below. Sorry for using another tongue briefly, but the aim is to reach Danes primarily. Thanks for understanding.]

Vi, en lille gruppe i baseret i Aarhus, har lavet en dansk hjemmeside oliekrisen. Den er endnu i en beta-version, men det skal vi nok komme efter. Målet med siden er bringe forståelig information på dansk til så mange danskere som muligt, ikke blot højtuddannede. Siden er også ret simpel i sit grafiske design, for at kunne åbnes på så mange browsere og computere som muligt.
Adressen er: http://www.oliekrise.dk

[English]
We, a small group based in Aarhus, have made a Danish site about the emerging energy crisis. As yet, it is a beta-version, but we will work towards correcting that soon. The goal is to bring understandable information in Danish to as many Danes as possible, not just the educated ones. The page is also quite simple in its graphic design in order to be accesible to as many browsers and computers as possible.
The address is: http://www.oliekrise.dk

Tak for opmærksomheden. Thanks for your attention.

-Peter

[Agren]

added under Non-English sites,
http://www.peakoil.com/vlink180.html

[DK1]

Cheers!

[Kaare_Mai]

Enough oil in Denmark for 2025:
Hello! Two days ago, they told in the news that the energy department had found out that there will be enough oil for Denmark until 2025 before it would peak and decline. I am not sure what to hold of it, if its true or false.

The question i ask is: Assume this is true. What will it mean for me as a citizen of Denmark in respect to the world in full decline? Or asked this way: If the world is in decline and there are shortages around the globe, what would happen in Denmark where we have enough oil to supply our own demand until 2025?

Thanks in advance!

[thor]

I'd guess that Denmark still faces problems because you are not producing all the oil based goods yourself. Also, Denmark exports products that will have a diminishing market to export to. So PO concerns us all. The entire world economy is interlinked and based on oil. Even with plenty of oil in Denmark, you'll most certainly see, for example, higher unemployment since a lot of Danish jobs depend on companies around the globe.

My 2 cents.

[KevO]

Hello!

If the world is in decline and there are shortages around the globe, what would happen in Denmark where we have enough oil to supply our own demand until 2025?

Thanks in advance!

Hi there.
Well 'they' won't let you keep it to yoursleves, that is for certain.
Has Denmark ever been invaded by the US?
That's one they haven't done! They're slipping!

What will most likely occur, especially now that Denmark has announced it, is China, Russia et al will buy it all meaning 2025 becomes 2008 same as everyone else.

KevO

Ps I'm not just a pretty face you know

[No-Oil]

"What will happen" ?

Well the same as everywhere else in the world, your government will need extra money to pay for the unemployed & alternatives etc etc.

Thus they will sell your oil to the highest bidder on the open market. The first thing to suffer once peak is realised will be environmental concerns, so expect refineries or whatever would never have been permitted in the past to spring up & more coal burning & stuff like that.

Note;- Burning coal to replaced lost Gas & Oil energy will offset any CO2 reductions managed by your country over years in only a year or two, thus expect warmer weather before the next ice age

[Starvid]

Note;- Burning coal to replaced lost Gas & Oil energy will offset any CO2 reductions managed by your country over years in only a year or two, thus expect warmer weather before the next ice age

The danes won't need any new coal plants, we'll just restart Barsebäck NPP.

(Internal Swedish-Danish joke)

[LadyRuby]

Definitely, the Danes will have to sell it and be screwed almost as much as everyone else. Luckily you have a fantastic transit system, more sustainable in many ways than much of the rest of the world (at least that's my impression).

[aahala]

Every country is likely to be adversely affected by declining oil supplies
but Denmark may be one of the least affected. Oil consumption has declined each of the last eight years. Population and per capita income
have generally grown by small amounts but the total energy consumption has been nearly a flat line for 15 years, with actual increases in the share of renewables.

The trouble with Danes is that they were not put in charge of world
energy policies back in the 1970s. They took the adult approach, heavy
taxation of non-renewables to subsidize efficency and renewables.

[Kaare_Mai]

Note;- Burning coal to replaced lost Gas & Oil energy will offset any CO2 reductions managed by your country over years in only a year or two, thus expect warmer weather before the next ice age

We do not use Oil og Gas for electricity generating in our country, only coal burning, although most home heating is done by oil and gas.

The danes won't need any new coal plants, we'll just restart Barsebäck NPP.

Yeah, i NEVER understood why it had to close! Stupid Danes, they know nothing about nuclear energy or what a mess coal plants make. grrr

Luckily you have a fantastic transit system, more sustainable in many ways than much of the rest of the world (at least that's my impression).

Yes we have a very good transit system, and alot of bike roads (don't know what you call them in english!), but the transit system is fairly expensive to use.



Thanks for all your replies!

[ivuernis]

ASPO gave a peak production date of 2002 for Denmark in its Nov 2004 newsletter.

Although, I do agree that Denmark will probably fare far better than most post-peak especially compared to my country, Ireland, where we have a completely inadequate transport system be it in the cities or inter-city. Our now almost complete dependence on road transport has resulted in mass urban sprawl and continuos traffic congestion.

[jmacdaddio]

I just came back from 2 weeks visiting my gf in Denmark. How I got into an intercontinenal long-distance romance is another story for another forum, but I noticed many ways that Danish society is better prepared for the end of cheap oil.

1. Like most European countries gas is about $6.50 a gallon. Small cars prevail. We toured in a Citroen minivan that got about 38 mpg from diesel.
2. People bike everywhere at all times of the year, thanks to flat geography, a moderate climate, and the presence of bike lanes on most roads.
3. Windmills for electricity generation are everywhere.
4. The distance from farm to plate is much shorter than the US.
5. They don't have suburban sprawl, at least not yet. I did pass by some sprawl which has popped up in recent years, but it's generally limited to city outskirts.
6. A typical grocery store is about the size of a large US convenience store. People shop more frequently but they can generally walk to a store in urban or semi-urban areas. Besides, refrigerators are smaller so they can only hold so much.
7. Public transit works. The trains run on time. Buses are frequent - even on a Sunday morning you can count on a bus coming every 10 minutes for a secondary route. I live in NJ where public transit is a joke unless you're going to NYC.
8. The government seems intent on doing everything possible to keep cars off the road. They tax cars heavily and the more poweful the engine, the higher the tax. A new Nissan Murano SUV costs $150,000 (compared to $30k US price). A new Nissan Micra costs about $25,000 (would cost about $15,000 if they sold it in the US). People still have cars, and nicer ones are status symbols, but they are not car-dependent. When it comes to cars, most European countries treat them as luxuries and not as God-given rights.

The only problems with the Danish car-tax scheme: 1. Most people who drive anything nicer than a VW Polo get their cars through their companies. A decent vehicle is hard to obtain for everyday people. Supposedly it's a classless society, but perks and privilieges are alive and well - companies sometimes give their managers a vehicle after they reach a certain level on the corporate ladder. 2. They have their own version of the SUV loophole: if you purchase a full 5 or 7 passenger SUV, you pay the high taxes. But you can cut the tax considerably if you get one with only 2 seats and show that you need to haul stuff for work. "Work" vehicles are identified by their yellow license plates. So, there's the comical scene of BMW and Porsche SUVs with yellow plates cruising around -- I'll bet those vehicles haven't hauled anything heavier than designer luggage. The tax scheme backfires because a full SUV could at least transport a group of people, while the two-seaters mean only one other person can ride, requiring another car trip for the passengers who could have jumped along.

While not pefect, the Danes are on the right track: they could easily cut their transportation fuel use by 75% and not suffer any serious effects. They're biking 5 miles to work instead of driving 50 miles each way in SUVs. They don't have 3000 mile Caesar salads for the most part. They don't have McMansions to heat. Keeping things small and local makes a lot of sense and it doesn't require a major sacrifice in quality of life.

[FireJack]

I imagine large parts of europe may fare well in the face of declining oil. I imagine the largest countries (U.S, China, Japan) will take the brunt of the blow since they have so much too lose. I'd keep an eye out on china, they are in a good position to fight for their resouces.

[Waterthrush]

I just heard somewhere that Danes had become world leaders in windmill power. This is something that just seems so obvious to me. Even here, in Central New Jersey, there are the relics of windmills past around. Surely they can be configured for something other than raising buckets of water, right? (Although, we may need that soon ...)

[Tyler_JC]

Denmark will fair well post peak.

However, the Denmark model is one of simplicity.

Simple is beautiful in my book, but good luck convinces the people in charge that they must surrender their power for the "common good".

The problem isn't that the individual towns and villages couldn't manage an energy poor world. The problem is that the massive cities, massive corporations, massive banking institutions, massive nationstates, and the rest of the Military Industrial Complex won't allow the peaceful transition to happen.

Powerlust is the enemy right now. We must seperate ourselves from the moguls of industry if we are to survive this.

For example, General Electric as a corporate entity will not survive very long post peak. But many of its subsidiaries might have a chance. Instead of breaking apart and allowing the stronger companies to survive, GE will go down like the Titanic, taking many other companies down with it.

Local government is the key to sustainablility.

Large bureaucracies like the European Union and the US Federal Government will only manage to screw things up and slow the transition down.

There are millions of people who survive my sucking life out of these bureaucracies (namely politicians and their various lobbists). Without these leeches, we could...

Sorry , back to Denmark.

I think there is real promise in places like this. Small, independent nations that haven't come to rely on the industrial largess of the rest of the world will remain pleasent places to live regardless of what happens in the rest of the world.

Here's a general list of the countries that might be in the same position as Denmark.

New Zealand
Australia
Iceland
Canada (?)
Norway
Switzerland
Cuba (?)
Panama (?)
and possibly a few others

But I'm just speculating at this point...

[Licho]

Large bureaucracies like the European Union and the US Federal Government will only manage to screw things up and slow the transition down.

European union bureaucracy is commited to sustainable development and backs or enforces large part of european ecological/renewables/conservation/safety measures..
If I want to build wind power plant or produce biodiesel here, I can get large subsidies directly from EU funds. EU backs such projects as current carbon permission trading or strict emmisions and efficiency standards.
It's certainly much more ecological and "greener" entity than goverment of my country.

[EnergySpin]

Large bureaucracies like the European Union and the US Federal Government will only manage to screw things up and slow the transition down.

European union bureaucracy is commited to sustainable development and backs or enforces large part of european ecological/renewables/conservation/safety measures..
If I want to build wind power plant or produce biodiesel here, I can get large subsidies directly from EU funds. EU backs such projects as current carbon permission trading or strict emmisions and efficiency standards.
It's certainly much more ecological and "greener" entity than goverment of my country.

Actually the overhead involved in running the EU is pretty small. And a lot of money goes directly to research often bypassing the bureacracies of the member - states. I was checking the renewable energy technology research in biomass and distributed energy management - it was amazing.

[evilmonkeyspanker]

Personally, I have to disagree with Canada and Australia as a whole, while not as bad as some of the other countries like Japan / USA / China etc... they are very dependent on oil.


I have seriously been considering moving to holland / denmark for sometime even before I heard of Peak Oil... I was was wondering what someone could tell me about thier society and how hard it is to become a citizen.

[Tyler_JC]

Large bureaucracies like the European Union and the US Federal Government will only manage to screw things up and slow the transition down.

European union bureaucracy is commited to sustainable development and backs or enforces large part of european ecological/renewables/conservation/safety measures..
If I want to build wind power plant or produce biodiesel here, I can get large subsidies directly from EU funds. EU backs such projects as current carbon permission trading or strict emmisions and efficiency standards.
It's certainly much more ecological and "greener" entity than goverment of my country.

In that case, strike the phrase "European Union" from the sentence. But the US Federal Government is doing nothing but moving in the wrong direction.

That we can agree on.