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THE Democrat Thread Pt. 4

A forum for discussion of regional topics including oil depletion but also government, society, and the future.

Re: The Democrats Will Lose the House in 2020

Unread postby lpetrich » Sat 04 May 2019, 04:40:39

Mueller Found Evidence of Collusion - The Moscow Project - even if Robert Mueller did not think that the evidence was strong enough to prosecute anyone about. No very strong evidence of collusion != no collusion whatsoever. If the Trumpies and their Russian friends were careful to keep their collusion on the level of winks and nudges, then they could have plenty of deniability.

New data suggests Russians targeted Bernie Sanders voters to help elect Trump | Salon.com -- are the "Bernie or Bust" people being supported by professional Russian trolls? It would fit.
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Re: The Democrats Will Lose the House in 2020

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Sat 04 May 2019, 08:43:36

More idiocy. "Evidence" is something which both the prosecution and defense have cross examined via witnesses under oath, and subjected to rigorous legal standards. It does not exist, because if it did, criminal charges would have been filed. What you are talking about is unsubstantiated allegations which were already investigated and dismissed.

Likewise, text that says somebody discussed the status of Bernie Sanders or his primary campaign in an E-mail is not evidence of wrong doing or criminal activity. After having been investigated and dismissed, it is preciseely NOTHING.

Get a clue. You are acting exactly like what you are, a mindless Democratic shill. If you want any respect around here, then you need to confirm your information from more than one source, and also find out if it has already been discredited.

The fact that you are still obsessed with this BS a full two years later is a pretty reliable indication that you are not reasoning about this topic.
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Re: The Democrats Will Lose the House in 2020

Unread postby Cog » Sat 04 May 2019, 09:36:12

It is not illegal to speak with a Russian. It is not illegal to hear or receive information from a Russian citizen, information which might be detrimental to your political opponent. It is not illegal to pass on information to a Russian citizen unclassified information.

Although Mueller's motivations during this two year investigation were suspect to me, he could not find anything to charge Trump or his campaign members with anything related to Russia collusion or conspiracy. He couldn't find it since there was no crime involved.
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Re: The Democrats Will Lose the House in 2020

Unread postby dissident » Sun 05 May 2019, 11:33:56

For the sake of America, they must lose the House in 2020 and not control the Senate. The D. Party has devolved into a cultural-Trotskyist one-party forever wannabe outfit with too many fellow travellers in the MSM and tech sector which controls social media. Americans are still asleep as to the totalitarian makeover that is under way. Too much cheesy cold war propaganda has given the masses a false narrative as to what totalitarianism is. Read Huxley's "Brave New World" and not just Orwell's "1984".
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Re: The Democrats Will Lose the House in 2020

Unread postby lpetrich » Mon 06 May 2019, 00:40:42

dissident wrote:For the sake of America, they must lose the House in 2020 and not control the Senate. The D. Party has devolved into a cultural-Trotskyist one-party forever wannabe outfit ...

That's a good description of the Republican Party, actually. With its willingness to gerrymander itself into victory and its willingness to obstruct the voting of anyone that it does not consider a likely Republican voter.
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Re: The Democrats Will Lose the House in 2020

Unread postby Cog » Mon 06 May 2019, 03:52:34

Obstruction? Do you consider having to show an ID to voter obstruction?

If you really want to see obstruction you should look into Democrat states that want to leave Trump completely off the ballot if he won't show his tax returns. SCOTUS is going to slap them down on this of course, since you can't put additional regulations on a presidential candidate's qualifications that aren't in the Constitution. Its a Federal election. This is true obstruction and its all on the Democrat side.

More at link:

https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-2 ... ns-1414584

According to the National Conference of State Legislatures, 18 states have considered proposals so far this year that would force all presidential and vice presidential candidates to release their tax returns before appearing on the ballot during a primary or general election
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Re: The Democrats Will Lose the House in 2020

Unread postby dissident » Mon 06 May 2019, 22:01:30

Are these lunatics looking for Putin's hand in Trump's tax returns? Maybe they should also insist on full cavity searches during televised debates....

This is what you get for decades of imbecilic hate propaganda that has turned a whole people into some boogeyman out to get you poor frightened babies. Why not Chinese meddling in the US election? Why only that one boogeyman country is some existential threat to your "democracy". Are you so freaking weak?

Knowing how the US is trying to foist puppets into power in that boogeyman country your spasms of indignation about Facebook ads (that pimped both Hillary and Trump as click bait) is transcendentally inane. Where is all the faith in the vaunted individual? Are US voters brainless drones that can be literally instructed how to vote by some ad noise that averages to zero message? It is totally clear that this hysteria is pure internal politics instigated by the D. Party to rewrite the system in its image.
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THE Democrat Thread Pt. 4

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Mon 14 Oct 2019, 23:09:40

Pops wrote:
Outcast_Searcher wrote:
Pops wrote:That's not income, it's wealth: accumulated profit.

Ah, the assumptions liberals make.

How do you suppose many people GET to be relatively wealthy?

Pray tell!
LOL, Pretty funny to start a post about liberal assumptions by making assumptions about liberals.

You made the claim that wealth is not income, it's "accumulated profit".

Not that part of the wealth is, which implies it all is. That's the assumption I was taking issue with. That's why I laid out my scenario, as a counter-example.

I didn't realize one had to be in the 1% for it to count.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: THE Democrat Thread Pt. 3

Unread postby careinke » Tue 15 Oct 2019, 03:38:59

All taxes are theft, backed by threatened armed violence, from a corrupt mob, looking to further their own self interest.

I have an Idea. Why don't the rich who think they should pay more taxes just sit down, write a check, and give it to the government? Then again, perhaps they don't feel government can spend their money as wisely as they can?
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Re: THE Democrat Thread Pt. 3

Unread postby Pops » Tue 15 Oct 2019, 11:57:24

Outcast_Searcher wrote:So are you saying it's fine to confiscate the wealth of the 1%, but not the 10%? As a strong believer in property rights, and knowing that the wealthy pay a tremedous proportion of the US income taxes and all the death taxes on top of that, where I draw the line is when politicians and their minions want to confiscate wealth on top those taxes, and claim that the rich never pay "enough".

I'm not so much into the redistribution.
Liz has a plan for universal babysitting, it's part of how she'd spend the wealth tax. I understand it is hard for small timers to pay $15/hr for childcare on a $10/hr wage because I've been there. I was able to pull myself up while my wife stayed home, but I'm lucky, lots aren't. I'd much rather raise the minimum wage to something livable so that folks who aren't as lucky as me can have a parent stay at home if they want. I'd rather pay more for a burger so that can happen than give Burger King another backdoor subsidy.

As far as tax rate, it's been trickling down for decades

Image

Yeah, in society we pay tax, sucks but there it is. The option is move to Mogadishu and become a warlord.

Some of the rancor in the US today is a result of white males (and their women folk) losing their privileged status (or thinking they have). But a large part is the flatlining of the American Dream. And the strangest thing is the reaction of some working folks has been arguing on the side of the 400, then turning around and drinking/doping/shooting themselves to death in despair. It is just beyond me.

I won't repost the chart showing the widening wealth gap, but not surprisingly it correlates completely with the above chart. Now we can blame the losers who don't have the ability or drive to become an engineer if it makes us feel superior. We can blame the folks who throw up their hands and eat some pills or their pistol. I think somewhere down this road they'll wake up and stop hurting themselves and the wealth gap will be closed one way or another.
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The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves -- in their separate, and individual capacities.
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Re: THE Democrat Thread Pt. 3

Unread postby Cog » Tue 15 Oct 2019, 14:57:05

All you will accomplish by raising minimum wage is to increase automation. A minimum wage job was never designed to be a livable wage. The thought it should is pure socialism. You are worth what value you bring to your employer and not a dime more. Don't like the wage? Then quit.
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Re: THE Democrat Thread Pt. 3

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Tue 15 Oct 2019, 15:23:00

Cog wrote:All you will accomplish by raising minimum wage is to increase automation. A minimum wage job was never designed to be a livable wage. The thought it should is pure socialism. You are worth what value you bring to your employer and not a dime more. Don't like the wage? Then quit.

Certainly, no rational person could argue that significantly raising the minimum wage will certainly strongly INCENT many employers to buy more job (especially low wage job) replacing automation ASAP. And thus be incenting tech companies to develop more of them and faster.

Oh, and you can politely negotiate on your wage. Both my father and I asked our bosses at IBM why we hadn't seen raises in years, and what we were doing wrong at (at least) one point. Both of got an "oops!", an apology for overlooking the situation (busy bosses make mistakes too), and a prompt large raise.

But yeah, this idea that companies should pay way above market wages because of the far left's idea of "fairness" is a good indication of why the developed economies aren't doing a lot better.

"Fairness" should be about access to a good education, protection from physical harm from bad guys and dangerous things, not about artificially screwing up wages, and pretending like there are no economic tools companies can use to adapt to that.

But by all means, let's send far more jobs overseas and make more jobs obsolete via automation, and then blame the GOP. :roll:

As a consumer, this is good for me. If I were still a worker, it would incent me to vote against the dems.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: THE Democrat Thread Pt. 3

Unread postby Pops » Tue 15 Oct 2019, 15:39:03

boss said "Oops, plumb slipped my mind, I been soooo busy!"
LOL that's good
The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves -- in their separate, and individual capacities.
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Re: THE Democrat Thread Pt. 3

Unread postby Cog » Tue 15 Oct 2019, 15:46:05

A corporation is not a charity no matter how Dems and Pops wish otherwise.
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Re: THE Democrat Thread Pt. 3

Unread postby yellowcanoe » Tue 15 Oct 2019, 16:03:00

Outcast_Searcher wrote:Certainly, no rational person could argue that significantly raising the minimum wage will certainly strongly INCENT many employers to buy more job (especially low wage job) replacing automation ASAP. And thus be incenting tech companies to develop more of them and faster.


Well I guess that makes some of those on the left irrational because they will insist that increasing the minimum wage will not result in a loss of jobs. In the short term they may be right because most business owners are going to try to keep their businesses running despite the higher wage costs. In the long run economic theory is going to win out and jobs will be lost due to automation or businesses folding because they are no longer profitable.

The left also want to believe that bringing in large numbers of semi-skilled workers won't put downward pressure on wages. It is the large pool of labour that the left is complicit in creating via an open door immigration policy that contributes to the low wage situation they in turn want to eliminate by raising the minimum wage.
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Re: THE Democrat Thread Pt. 3

Unread postby Newfie » Tue 15 Oct 2019, 17:11:02

Exactly right Yellow. Without the large immigrant influx then the scarcity of labor would increase the wages. Market forces would drive labor prices upwards. So in this respect the Democrats are assisting the elites in keeping the minions down. And I guess because the illegals, using fake documents, pay into SS et al, but will never get money out of SS, so all us in the middle benefit.

Automation is IMHO a mixed blessing. ALL economist insist on a growing economy. If you stop immigration then you also limit the number of consumers, slowing the economic growth. However AI replaces workers so it should in theory allow for economic growth in a stable or declining population. The problem is that if a worker is replaced by a robot then the taxes go away. The solution is then to tax the robot, or better to tax the production. It would provide the government with a more stable tax base and also make immigration less desirable.

Then if we have less immigration we would be able to start working on stabilizing our economy (zero growth) or maybe even working towards sustainability (declining population to about 150 million.)
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Re: THE Democrat Thread Pt. 4

Unread postby jedrider » Tue 15 Oct 2019, 23:49:09

Saw the debate tonight. They seem to all agree that Trump must go and largely agreed on other issues, too, and didn't bash each other. That also made it hard to pick a winner, but IMO, they all had some merit, so it will come down to some constellation of attributes that are most appealing (unless the DNC mucks it up again). I'm hoping this unity prevails because that was the downfall of the Democrats in the last election.

Republicans, on the other hand, all agreed that they wanted to win in 2016 and they didn't care who they selected as long as they could win. Let's see how this plays out if they determine Trump cannot win, but they may not have a plan B either.

Only Tulsi seems to have a different perspective from the other Democrats, which made her the outsider. She particularly had a different opinion of our military presence around the world. Biden also said he knew how to fix government. That sounds familiar, unfortunately, because that's what Trump had said.

Anyway, good debate, actually, very good debate, that clearly highlighted what policies Democrats are contemplating. So, did they really agree, or just pretended to agree? That I don't know.
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Re: THE Democrat Thread Pt. 4

Unread postby Cog » Wed 16 Oct 2019, 01:40:24

Yes they all agreed with free stuff for everyone, tax the rich, confiscate guns, starting a new war in Syria, open borders for illegals, and Orange Man bad. A more ouright display of praising authoritarian socialism I have ever seen outside Cuba and Venezuela.
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Re: THE Democrat Thread Pt. 4

Unread postby Plantagenet » Thu 17 Oct 2019, 08:46:02

jedrider wrote:Saw the debate tonight. They seem to all agree that Trump must go....


They also agreed the D impeachment inquiry is nonpartisan. Apparently they are all liars or idiots or both.

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Re: THE Democrat Thread Pt. 4

Unread postby lpetrich » Sun 27 Oct 2019, 23:13:47

Rep. Elijah Cummings dies at 68 - The Washington Post
Elijah E. Cummings, a Democratic congressman from Maryland who gained national attention for his principled stands on politically charged issues in the House, his calming effect on anti-police riots in Baltimore, and his forceful opposition to the presidency of Donald Trump, died Oct. 17 at a hospice center in Baltimore. He was 68.

The cause was “complications concerning long-standing health challenges,” his office said in a statement. Mr. Cummings was chairman of the House Oversight and Reform Committee and a leading figure in the Trump impeachment inquiry and had been out of his office for weeks while recovering from an unspecified medical procedure.

Born in 1951, he helped integrate a local swimming pool at age 11, despite bottles and rocks thrown at him. Inspired by the TV show "Perry Mason", he became a lawyer. In 1983, he went into politics in Maryland's House of Delegates, and in 1996, he got into the US House of Representatives. Early this year, he became head of the House Oversight and Reform Committee.

He got a lot of nice tributes from his fellow politicians, including this one:

Donald J. Trump on Twitter: "My warmest condolences to the family and many friends of Congressman Elijah Cummings. I got to see first hand the strength, passion and wisdom of this highly respected political leader. His work and voice on so many fronts will be very hard, if not impossible, to replace!" / Twitter

That struck a lot of people as being so out of character for him that it had to have been some staffer who wrote that.
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